NBA Thread 2020-21 Season

[Melancer46]

Some thoughts:

CP3 has been and always will be a dirty player. It's easy to overlook, but his track record is LONG. He's not the only dirty player, but he is up there for dirtiest player that is also a star. He's a first ballot HOFer, though.

Book is putting up legit numbers, but he's starting to get tunnel vision. This stat is pretty indicative of that (below). This is the type of play that looks good, but gets you games where you score 70 and still lose. I get that he's a star and he's made some huge shots, but the more that the others are standing around, the better for the Bucks.


Overall, the Suns have been so dangerous because Johnson, Bridges, Ayton et al could really get after it besides Book and CP3.

Giannis may have issues with FTs and his three point shot, but there is no one remotely close to his level in this series. If the Bucks win the title and he gets FMVP, it's time to start talking where he's going to be all time on the PF list and overall list. The block, that dunk on the oop, the tip back after his missed FT and putting up insane stats. Dude is incredible.

The Jrue Holiday signing not only got Giannis to re-sign, but while he's inconsistent on O, he is a machine on defense. He straight up had a few plays where he just treated guys like they were a little brother.

Middleton always hits like 3-4 shots a game where the defender is in his shirt.

When the Suns go into their screening action and I see Book or CP3 end up with Giannis on them after Jrue started on them, I'm not sure what they are supposed to do.

Series obviously isn't over, but it feels like the Bucks have somewhat figured out the Suns and I have to give credit to Bud. Dude was probably one game away from being unemployed and now he's one game away from a chip.

I’m going to stay away from legacy type talk until the series is over, but if the Bucks do ultimately close this out (which I’m still very nervous about), Giannis is going to be a lot higher up the all time PF lists than people think.

 

[MikeSU02]

I’m going to stay away from legacy type talk until the series is over, but if the Bucks do ultimately close this out (which I’m still very nervous about), Giannis is going to be a lot higher up the all time PF lists than people think.

I mean, he's #2 if they win, behind Duncan.

 

[OrangeDW]

I mean, he's #2 if they win, behind Duncan.

 

[Day2]

I guess the Suns aren’t as perfect as some thought.

And I love how Giannis completely changed the Valley Oop narrative.

 

[Knicks411]

Some thoughts:

CP3 has been and always will be a dirty player. It's easy to overlook, but his track record is LONG. He's not the only dirty player, but he is up there for dirtiest player that is also a star. He's a first ballot HOFer, though.

Book is putting up legit numbers, but he's starting to get tunnel vision. This stat is pretty indicative of that (below). This is the type of play that looks good, but gets you games where you score 70 and still lose. I get that he's a star and he's made some huge shots, but the more that the others are standing around, the better for the Bucks.


Overall, the Suns have been so dangerous because Johnson, Bridges, Ayton et al could really get after it besides Book and CP3.

Giannis may have issues with FTs and his three point shot, but there is no one remotely close to his level in this series. If the Bucks win the title and he gets FMVP, it's time to start talking where he's going to be all time on the PF list and overall list. The block, that dunk on the oop, the tip back after his missed FT and putting up insane stats. Dude is incredible.

The Jrue Holiday signing not only got Giannis to re-sign, but while he's inconsistent on O, he is a machine on defense. He straight up had a few plays where he just treated guys like they were a little brother.

Middleton always hits like 3-4 shots a game where the defender is in his shirt.

When the Suns go into their screening action and I see Book or CP3 end up with Giannis on them after Jrue started on them, I'm not sure what they are supposed to do.

Series obviously isn't over, but it feels like the Bucks have somewhat figured out the Suns and I have to give credit to Bud. Dude was probably one game away from being unemployed and now he's one game away from a chip.

The booker tunnel vision stuff is real key, I was really advocating for Booker earlier in the playoffs, and it was in part because he has turned into a really good play maker. Not quite so much the last few games.

 

[Knicks411]

I mean, he's #2 if they win, behind Duncan.

This is where I'll say Duncan is a C. And LBJ is maybe a 4? He's basically like his own position I guess

 

[MikeSU02]

This is where I'll say Duncan is a C. And LBJ is maybe a 4? He's basically like his own position I guess

Yeah, Duncan's thing is odd. But traditionally people have measured him against other PFs, so I do too. I get he should at least be a hybrid (sort of like AD).

My thing with Timmy is that he was better than Kobe and Timmy is a top 10 guy all time. I never really weigh in on guys I never saw play (like Russell, Wilt, Oscar, West, etc), so my list of guys that are ahead of Timmy (again, that I saw) are:

MJ, KAJ, Bron, Magic and Bird. That's it. Not Kobe, not Shaq, not Hakeem. IMO, Timmy is better than all of those guys. So when I say Giannis is #2 in PF behind Timmy, I'm saying he's flying by Charles, Dirk, KG, Malone.

 

[MikeSU02]

The booker tunnel vision stuff is real key, I was really advocating for Booker earlier in the playoffs, and it was in part because he has turned into a really good play maker. Not quite so much the last few games.

It's odd. Because he is dropping 40 while shooting better than 50%. But it seems like they are fine to let Booker get his 35 shots and just have the rest of the guys sort of stand around. And the thing is, he's shooting mostly twos. So if the Bucks can hit threes, get and ones, and just get second chance points (which they have been bc of size), they can beat Booker going nuclear from midrange.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, Duncan's thing is odd. But traditionally people have measured him against other PFs, so I do too. I get he should at least be a hybrid (sort of like AD).

My thing with Timmy is that he was better than Kobe and Timmy is a top 10 guy all time. I never really weigh in on guys I never saw play (like Russell, Wilt, Oscar, West, etc), so my list of guys that are ahead of Timmy (again, that I saw) are:

MJ, KAJ, Bron, Magic and Bird. That's it. Not Kobe, not Shaq, not Hakeem. IMO, Timmy is better than all of those guys. So when I say Giannis is #2 in PF behind Timmy, I'm saying he's flying by Charles, Dirk, KG, Malone.

I think peak Shaq and peak Hakeem were both better than Duncan.

But I can see a “sustained excellence” argument in Duncan’s favor.

 

[Melancer46]

It's odd. Because he is dropping 40 while shooting better than 50%. But it seems like they are fine to let Booker get his 35 shots and just have the rest of the guys sort of stand around. And the thing is, he's shooting mostly twos. So if the Bucks can hit threes, get and ones, and just get second chance points (which they have been bc of size), they can beat Booker going nuclear from midrange.

It’s been a lot of contested jumpers the last couple games too. I’m sure the Bucks content to live with him taking those shots and if that beats them, you tip your cap. Far more important to stop the Ayton rolls and open 3’s for all their shooters.

 

[Knicks411]

I think peak Shaq and peak Hakeem were both better than Duncan.

But I can see a “sustained excellence” argument in Duncan’s favor.

Peak Shaq was absurd. But it was a relatively short peak.

This isn't the only way to consider the issue, but if you knew everything about how their careers would pan out, would you pick a rookie Duncan or Shaq? Obviously not the results of the team, which would depend on the rest of the roster, but the player itself; I think I would rather take Duncan because you know you're getting a legendary player for like 15 years. With Shaq you get a 5 year period where he's maybe the most dominant ever and you need to try hard not to win a title. So I can def see the pro Shaq case

 

[MikeSU02]

Peak Shaq was absurd. But it was a relatively short peak.

This isn't the only way to consider the issue, but if you knew everything about how their careers would pan out, would you pick a rookie Duncan or Shaq? Obviously not the results of the team, which would depend on the rest of the roster, but the player itself; I think I would rather take Duncan because you know you're getting a legendary player for like 15 years. With Shaq you get a 5 year period where he's maybe the most dominant ever and you need to try hard not to win a title. So I can def see the pro Shaq case

Thing is, I think Duncan's peak is underrated. If he had a Kobe, I think he would have won at least two more chips, if not three or four.

I mean, he's maybe a dumb Manu foul and a D Fish hero shot at 0.4 from having two more titles.

I get that peak Shaq was basically from another planet, but when Duncan peaked, and you include his defense, he could be flirting with a quadruple double at times. That 2003 team he won a chip with was all him. He had a 24/17/5/5 blocks/1 steal average for the series. FIVE BLOCKS per game!

Maybe Shaq's peak was better, I think most people would say that, but Timmy never gets enough credit for his peak. People just think he had Manu and Tony at their peaks at the same time, and he didn't for a while.

 

[Knicks411]

Thing is, I think Duncan's peak is underrated. If he had a Kobe, I think he would have won at least two more chips, if not three or four.

I mean, he's maybe a dumb Manu foul and a D Fish hero shot at 0.4 from having two more titles.

I get that peak Shaq was basically from another planet, but when Duncan peaked, and you include his defense, he could be flirting with a quadruple double at times. That 2003 team he won a chip with was all him. He had a 24/17/5/5 blocks/1 steal average for the series. FIVE BLOCKS per game!

Maybe Shaq's peak was better, I think most people would say that, but Timmy never gets enough credit for his peak. People just think he had Manu and Tony at their peaks at the same time, and he didn't for a while.

I agree, I think Duncan is one of the 8 or whatever best players ever, and it's not just because he was great forever. At his peak he was unreal. Not just the 5 blocks per gam, but 5 assists in a series where the Spurs were scoring about 23 buckets per game, away from Duncan. I just checked some other stats from that series; in 6 games Duncan only committed 16 fouls. 23 TO is a little high, but he was doing a lot for them. 2nd and 3rd on that team in mintues in the finals? a 20 year old Tony Parker and a 37 year old David Robinson. you're right, I the Spurs were so good for so long with those big 3 it's easy to just assume they all came together fully formed

Maybe it's just because Shaq's peak was so physically dominant it gets overrated a little. And he had a great #2, one of the best ever. If they didn't have such a great second iso scorer, maybe Shaq's iffy FT shooting hurts them more

 

[OrangeDW]

 

[cliftonparksufan]

My wife is a big Leon fan.

 

[jordville]

 

[kirbivore]

Some thoughts:

CP3 has been and always will be a dirty player. It's easy to overlook, but his track record is LONG. He's not the only dirty player, but he is up there for dirtiest player that is also a star. He's a first ballot HOFer, though.

I despise Chris Paul and this choke job is delicious

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I despise Chris Paul and this choke job is delicious

I'm not a hater, but I think this is pretty accurate. He's old and can't compete with the defense he's seeing. And that's killing the Suns because the ball is in his hands all the time.

 

[SWC75]

I'm not a hater, but I think this is pretty accurate. He's old and can't compete with the defense he's seeing. And that's killing the Suns because the ball is in his hands all the time.

He turned into a basketball.

 

[Cusefan0307]

 

[Melancer46]

Tony Brothers is the Bucks' nemesis too.

I absolutely hate the way everyone seems to be acting like the Bucks already won, especially considering how hard fought every game has been so far. Brandon Jennings flew into Milwaukee to celebrate the Bucks in 6 prophecy tonight too. I have a feeling we're in for a lot of disappointment tonight.

 

[MikeSU02]

Tony Brothers is the Bucks' nemesis too.

I absolutely hate the way everyone seems to be acting like the Bucks already won, especially considering how hard fought every game has been so far. Brandon Jennings flew into Milwaukee to celebrate the Bucks in 6 prophecy tonight too. I have a feeling we're in for a lot of disappointment tonight.

On Simmons podcast, I believe he said that this scenario, game 6, at home, up 3-2, chance to clinch, has occurred 11 times since the merger. The outcome is 10-1 for the team up 3-2 at home.

I get the nerves, I'd be the same way if it were my favorite team, as well. But history is on your side.

 

[MikeSU02]

If the Bucks really take hold of this game, I can see CP3 getting booted after screaming at Scott Foster.

 

[Melancer46]

On Simmons podcast, I believe he said that this scenario, game 6, at home, up 3-2, chance to clinch, has occurred 11 times since the merger. The outcome is 10-1 for the team up 3-2 at home.

I get the nerves, I'd be the same way if it were my favorite team, as well. But history is on your side.

I saw a stat the other day that when the series goes exactly this way: 2-0 to 3-2, the team up 3-2 has won 9 of 17 series or something like that lol

 

[MikeSU02]

I saw a stat the other day that when the series goes exactly this way: 2-0 to 3-2, the team up 3-2 has won 9 of 17 series or something like that lol

Haha, but you are home! All good, I get it. I'd be going crazy and convincing myself that we'd lose, lol. I'm a doomsdayer.

I think you guys got it tonight.