NBA Thread 2020-21 Season

[MikeSU02]

Maybe even from a certain GM that is trying to acquire him now and witnessed all of this firsthand?

Between Embiid and Harden, they would definitely be the two most out of shape (relatively, of course, please note that no NBA player is really out of shape) stars on the same team.

 

[jncuse]

Why would you bury him before the trade though?

My take is that this info is all from people that have exited and can speak freely without worrying about the org being mad at them.

I can certainly see Harden burying his value so that his new team has to give less to get him (the Vince Carter tactic from the mid 2000's was an example of this).

But not sure why the Rockets would bury him until he was gone.

 

[Knicks411]

Why would you bury him before the trade though?

My take is that this info is all from people that have exited and can speak freely without worrying about the org being mad at them.

So you can justify the (maybe not great) package you get back from him, and get the fanbase on your side when he's gone.

It's a cynical take by me, to be sure.

 

[Melancer46]

Between Embiid and Harden, they would definitely be the two most out of shape (relatively, of course, please note that no NBA player is really out of shape) stars on the same team.

Harden looked a little extra chunky in that picture, but the dude is pretty much the definition of an ironman in this era of the NBA where guys are resting all the time. He almost never misses a game and plays a lot of minutes every game. It's fun to crack jokes about him showing up kinda fat but I have no doubt that he'll be in plenty good shape when the games matter. Embiid it's definitely always been a question.

 

[Briancuse]

Harden looked a little extra chunky in that picture, but the dude is pretty much the definition of an ironman in this era of the NBA where guys are resting all the time. He almost never misses a game and plays a lot of minutes every game. It's fun to crack jokes about him showing up kinda fat but I have no doubt that he'll be in plenty good shape when the games matter. Embiid it's definitely always been a question.

A little? He looks like he ate Russell Westbrook.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Thanks to Otto and Mike for their feedback:

I will be setting up a league later today, and here is what I am thinking.

- Yahoo
- Probably 8 teams, since I have not seen an abundance of interest.
- Head to Head each week. Score by Category. (10 categories?)
- Roster Size of 15, Play 10 each week, 5 on bench.
- Trades Allowed (One per Week).
- Waiver Claims Allowed (One per Week)

Any other feedback or interest let me know.

id do it if you need 1.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I agree with your smaller group of four contenders that have separated themselves based on talent / or past pedigree. What is interesting though about that group of 4, is they have some pretty big question marks -- the Kyrie factor, Durant recovery, Bucks playoff issues, Kawhi drama.

I like the Mavs, but I think it's too big a jump for them to get in the elite this year. They were in the "3rd tier" last year and they will comfortably progress, but typically there is a franchise progression.

I don't see the Sixers as much of a contender. They are better balanced though this year so who knows. But I would not really have them any higher than the Raptors.

If I had to choose a #5 and #6, I would have the Nuggets then Celtics. Nuggets have so many young or prime pieces.

And my championship pick is the Milwaukee Bucks. They will figure it out.

Maybe. But it also wasn’t that long ago that the Warriors dumped Mark Jackson, replaced David Lee with Draymond, and suddenly became one of the best teams of all time. The slow progression stuff doesn’t happen as much in the NBA anymore like it did in the 80’s and 90’s.

 

[jncuse]

id do it if you need 1.

OK - you are #4.
Will me starting a separate thread shortly.

 

[jncuse]

Maybe. But it also wasn’t that long ago that the Warriors dumped Mark Jackson, replaced David Lee with Draymond, and suddenly became one of the best teams of all time. The slow progression stuff doesn’t happen as much in the NBA anymore like it did in the 80’s and 90’s.

The slow progression stuff happens less because of some large FA moves or trades being the trigger. But teams that develop organically and take a massive leap are still fairly rare.

There have been a few teams that took large leaps with stars... the 2019 Bucks and the the Warriors you mentioned. But those were both triggered by coaching changes -- and Dallas' growth this year has to be largely organic since they kept the same roster and coach.

Also both teams stalled at the mid 40 win range (42-44, 47-51) before making a big leap.

Milwaukee for example when Giannis established him as a star in 2017 won 42 games... the next year they stagnated and only won 44 games. The leap came with a new coach like the Warriors.

 

[jncuse]

But as I looked more closely at the Mavs they have a couple strong analytics that are positives in analyzing them this year:

Last year while they were 43-32, there expected W/L was 49-26, and their SRS was 6th out of 30 teams in the league. And those figures tend to be more predictive. So there baseline for growth is a bit higher than what their overall record indicates last year.

 

[Knicks411]

But as I looked more closely at the Mavs they have a couple strong analytics that are positives in analyzing them this year:

Last year while they were 43-32, there expected W/L was 49-26, and their SRS was 6th out of 30 teams in the league. And those figures tend to be more predictive. So there baseline for growth is a bit higher than what their overall record indicates last year.

Hollinger was very positive on them in his writeup today

 

[Day2]

You cannot compare Lebron and Kawhi. (and you may not be). Lebron is a diva, but he is not a rollercoaster. Kawhi is a roller coaster.

Lebron puts in the work and leads the team in practice and dedication. Kawhi is about load management / practicing when he wants / skipping the odd practice / being a loner.

Kawhi already bailed on one team (San Antonio) and had teammates to a large extent bail on him (LAC last year). He is a risky proposition. When everything goes right it certainly can and has paid off, but it can go very poorly as well.

Kawhi worked in San Antonio and Toronto -- but they already had established and respected internal leadership structures that kept the team in check. They let him either just play, or lead on the court.

The Clippers did not have the proper established leadership structure to handle Kawhi last year and all the favours rubbed the supporting core the wrong way. I am not sure if it has changed enough this year. It helps that Paul George (I cheated on my coaches' daugther with a stripper and got the stripper pregnant) dynamic is no longer there. Serge Ibaka a respected veteran should also help in that regard.

Could the talent on the floor overcome the drama -- certainly it can, but it can also blow up. I give the Clippers a 20% chance of missing the playoffs this year. (Similar odds of winning it all to missing the playoffs)

I saw one poster above that said Kawhi is almost a guarantee to stay with the Clippers. Based on his history, I just see that as a really poor assertion to make. There are so many reasonable plausable scenarios with Kawhi -- win it all and stay, legit injury, non-legit injury, leave because he is not happy with others, ask to be traded.

And largely irrelevant to this -- I am amused by the fact that Kawhi thought it was fine to balance a 1 litre water gallon off his junk in front of teammates as part of an exercise routine

You forgot to include the disclaimer: “jncuse’s Clippers takes are for entertainment purposes only.”

 

[Day2]

If the Rockets were smart they would find a way to trade Harden in a 3 way deal with OKC where they get their picks back from OKC and whatever compensation they would get would go to OKC.

If this were an NBA movie like that Cleveland Browns NFL draft movie with Kevin Costner that is what would happen.

That movie was a lot more entertaining than it deserved to be.

 

[Day2]

Kawhi has two chips. He has two finals MVPs. At the end of the day, you deal with that if you need to.

Here are the other two active players with multiple finals mvps: Bron and KD. Here are the other ex-players that have done it: Reed, KAJ, Magic, Bird, MJ, Dream, Timmy, Shaq and Kobe.

He moved heaven and earth to get back close to his home and it rubbed people the wrong way, so be it. Proof is in the pudding. He's not the first and certainly won't be the last, but he is one of the few to have a track record of hardware to allow it.

And those teammates that were complaining about him, are we talking Trez? Lou? Beverly? Who cares? The only untouchable player on that team is Kawhi. Maybe he isn't a leader, but he doesn't show up out of shape. He doesn't mail in games. He had to take on more ball handling duties bc all his other teammates were all talk and no substance.

They close on their 3-1 lead and then lose to the Lakers in the WCF, no one cares. If Doc wasn't so stubborn with Trez, they probably win that series and it's a whole different narrative.

Thanks, you saved me the trouble.

Harrell was the true malcontent and they let him go. He had issues with both Leonard and George. (I think he believes he’s better than George.) If Beverley and Williams were that much of a problem, they would be gone.

Yeah, the Clips were up 3-1 and held double-digit leads in games 5-7. Despite all the injuries and load management, they finished with the second-best record in the WC, second in offense, and fifth in defense. They got rid of the two biggest reasons why they lost to Denver (Rivers and Harrell) and upgraded at several spots with Lue, Ibaka, Kennard, and Batum.

Enjoy the narrative while it lasts, haters.

 

[Arangeman]

I do think I'm probably higher on the Celtics and 76ers than most people are this year. I think one of them will end up being the 2 seed in the East when it's all said and done.

Re: Mavs, like I said, I think it depends on how their guys develop. Luka was an MVP caliber player last year and they were pretty clearly not a contender. I like what they're building there but I think they're probably a year off still, if not more. We'll see. I love Luka to death and would love to see Dallas break through but if I had to bet on it, I think they end up in the 5-7 range in the West again.

I'm purposefully staying away from Dallas because I think they can potentially make the leap but I'm not expecting it either. The teams I'm betting on this year:

• Spurs under 29.5
• Kings under 28.5
• OKC under 23.5
• Hawks missing the playoffs
• T'Wolves over 28.5
• Jazz over 41.5

Took Thunder under 24.5
Lakers over 47
Kings under 29

Kings estimated to be favored in (3) games first half of season, good call.

 

[MikeSU02]

Thanks, you saved me the trouble.

Harrell was the true malcontent and they let him go. He had issues with both Leonard and George. (I think he believes he’s better than George.) If Beverley and Williams were that much of a problem, they would be gone.

Yeah, the Clips were up 3-1 and held double-digit leads in games 5-7. Despite all the injuries and load management, they finished with the second-best record in the WC, second in offense, and fifth in defense. They got rid of the two biggest reasons why they lost to Denver (Rivers and Harrell) and upgraded at several spots with Lue, Ibaka, Kennard, and Batum.

Enjoy the narrative while it lasts, haters.

My two favorite players to watch play are Kawhi and Luka. I'll caveat that I appreciate watching Bron just because once he's done playing, I'll definitely miss him being awesome.

I think the Clips did a great job in the off season. I think shipping Trez out and swapping in Lue for Doc were great moves. Love Ibaka back with Kawhi. Batum I think may be toast (maybe not), but Kennard should get into the rotation.

Ballmer isn't going to deal with BS. If someone's a problem, they'll be gone. People attribute him to being this goofy guy but he can be cut throat when needed.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So Hayward is hurt.

 

[OrangeDW]

Watching these stars stay in the East or scramble to get to the East, while these other West teams are infighting like...

 

[Day2]

Something that keeps getting overlooked with the Clippers trade for Kennard: They also acquired four second-round picks. With that in mind, let's go back to the PG13 trade for a moment...

The Clippers sent five first-rounders to OKC. Three of their own ('22, '24', 26) and two from Miami ('21, '23). In all likelihood, the Clippers will stay competitive at least through 2024 and the Heat should also be good this year and in 2023. So at least four of these picks will be late first-rounders.

Of the second-round picks from Detroit, one is from Portland ('23). The other three are directly from the Pistons ('24, '25, '26). Where those picks fall in the draft depends on your confidence in Troy Weaver.

Bottom line, there's a good chance there won't be much separation between the majority of these picks.

 

[Day2]

My two favorite players to watch play are Kawhi and Luka. I'll caveat that I appreciate watching Bron just because once he's done playing, I'll definitely miss him being awesome.

I think the Clips did a great job in the off season. I think shipping Trez out and swapping in Lue for Doc were great moves. Love Ibaka back with Kawhi. Batum I think may be toast (maybe not), but Kennard should get into the rotation.

Ballmer isn't going to deal with BS. If someone's a problem, they'll be gone. People attribute him to being this goofy guy but he can be cut throat when needed.

Yeah, I don't expect much from Batum, but he's still better than McGruder.

 

[jncuse]

Thanks, you saved me the trouble.

Harrell was the true malcontent and they let him go. He had issues with both Leonard and George. (I think he believes he’s better than George.) If Beverley and Williams were that much of a problem, they would be gone.

Yeah, the Clips were up 3-1 and held double-digit leads in games 5-7. Despite all the injuries and load management, they finished with the second-best record in the WC, second in offense, and fifth in defense. They got rid of the two biggest reasons why they lost to Denver (Rivers and Harrell) and upgraded at several spots with Lue, Ibaka, Kennard, and Batum.

Enjoy the narrative while it lasts, haters.

I predict the Clippers will finally make the semi's of an NBA tournament this year. The semi's of the NBA play in tournament that is.

 

[jncuse]

Between Embiid and Harden, they would definitely be the two most out of shape (relatively, of course, please note that no NBA player is really out of shape) stars on the same team.

There use to be some players that were out of shape that could get by for some minutes. Like Mike Sweetney -- despite being from Georgetown I always liked his game. He was so skilled and smart.

A player with weight issues like that would never even get a chance in today's game because they could simply not defend in space at the top which big men need to do now. I am not really going to make fun him for his weight - some issues are not easy to overcome for everybody.

 

[jncuse]

So you can justify the (maybe not great) package you get back from him, and get the fanbase on your side when he's gone.

It's a cynical take by me, to be sure.

I can see that scenario. I referenced the VC 2005 scenario above in Toronto... it seemed like it was a two sided effort to sabotage his value. That happens when both parties get agitated with each other.
- Vince played like crap on the floor and was a baby.
- The Raptors let several things leak that showed their agitation with Vince.

It resulted in a craptacular trade package of Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, draft picks (#16 and #20), and we had to buy out Mourning who did not want to play in Toronto

 

[OrangeDW]

“I gave you power, I made you buck wild.” (C) - Nas

The Rockets created a culture that gave James Harden all the power

 

[Arangeman]

“I gave you power, I made you buck wild.” (C) - Nas

The Rockets created a culture that gave James Harden all the power

Any team that trades for him is making a mistake