NCAA threatens to boot the whole state of California if bill becomes law

[Cheriehoop]

All California did was to allow athletes to have the same rights as any other student. There's really nothing for the NCAA to do or clean up. The NCAA is just whining because they and their members wont get their cut.

Are you sure of that? Grad students many of them research assistants etc don’t even own their own intellectual property and are prevented from working outside jobs while requiring them to pay for tuition, meals, room and board. These are students in academia, the actual mission of universities. No wonder many in academia are in disbelief regarding the attention these ‘poor athletes‘ get. The NCAA has done a good job getting athletes deserved special treatment already. The work of students who are toiling on such vital issues like cancer research, genetic anomalies, invasive species, climate change, new non fossil fuel options etc do so while still responsible for tuition, room & board, meals etc because they are learning and using university facilities. Their images are worthless because they don’t get the free tv time, articles, free publicity that athletes do. Instead they leave with huge debt. This despite scholarship athletes accumulating no debt for their education, room and board, meals plus receiving stipends and financial aid because some think athletes are being cheated not getting money officially from outside sources for their image or a piece of the profits (wouldn’t most long term employees of corporations love to get a guaranteed percentage of their profits?). How many student medical doctors who work many times more than full time in hospitals during training, would trade places with athletes and the benefits they receive Average Medical School Debt in the Class of 2018 — NerdWallet

I love sports (obviously) and think it gives opportunities that many of these kids would never have otherwise to realize their dream. Why are people crying that Zion Williamson didn’t make more money in his 1 year in college yet could care less that the average medical doctor leaves with over $196,000 in loans from just medical school alone? (with maximum of 80 hour work weeks)

Zion had options - the Bazely Route, overseas, G League, street ball leagues yet he voluntarily chose college for his own benefit. What in any of this legislation stops athletes from getting money, benefits like they do now while in high school, prep school, AAU season or continuing even under the table in college? Sorry I want these student athletes to succeed but I’m not crying for these talented athletes over lost income that they voluntarily and contractually forego while in college in a symbiotic relationship benefiting both parties, the athlete and the university. Unlike what the OP said, most every undergraduate or grad student would definitely change places and benefits in a minute with the opportunities of a debt less, D1 athlete. Heck what D2 or D3 star athlete wouldn’t trade their rights and benefits with any D1 athlete less a non athletic student?

 

[maxxyz]

I might have this wrong, but I also think that students who assist with inventing something that's get a patent can get a cut of the profits. Might have that backwards though.

You do have it backwards. Research done by students at universities get nothing. All patents, licensing, and intellectual property are owned by the university.

Same goes with many corporations doing research, unless you have enough clout to get it written into your contract.

 

[FloridaFan]

Are 98 percent of athletes going to get any “endorsement money” that these bills are saying? It seems like they will benefit the top 2 percent of athletes and next to nothing for anyone else

 

[NKR1978]

Are you sure of that? Grad students many of them research assistants etc don’t even own their own intellectual property and are prevented from working outside jobs while requiring them to pay for tuition, meals, room and board. These are students in academia, the actual mission of universities. No wonder many in academia are in disbelief regarding the attention these ‘poor athletes‘ get. The NCAA has done a good job getting athletes deserved special treatment already. The work of students who are toiling on such vital issues like cancer research, genetic anomalies, invasive species, climate change, new non fossil fuel options etc do so while still responsible for tuition, room & board, meals etc because they are learning and using university facilities. Their images are worthless because they don’t get the free tv time, articles, free publicity that athletes do. Instead they leave with huge debt. This despite scholarship athletes accumulating no debt for their education, room and board, meals plus receiving stipends and financial aid because some think athletes are being cheated not getting money officially from outside sources for their image or a piece of the profits (wouldn’t most long term employees of corporations love to get a guaranteed percentage of their profits?). How many student medical doctors who work many times more than full time in hospitals during training, would trade places with athletes and the benefits they receive Average Medical School Debt in the Class of 2018 — NerdWallet

I love sports (obviously) and think it gives opportunities that many of these kids would never have otherwise to realize their dream. Why are people crying that Zion Williamson didn’t make more money in his 1 year in college yet could care less that the average medical doctor leaves with over $196,000 in loans from just medical school alone? (with maximum of 80 hour work weeks)

Zion had options - the Bazely Route, overseas, G League, street ball leagues yet he voluntarily chose college for his own benefit. What in any of this legislation stops athletes from getting money, benefits like they do now while in high school, prep school, AAU season or continuing even under the table in college? Sorry I want these student athletes to succeed but I’m not crying for these talented athletes over lost income that they voluntarily and contractually forego while in college in a symbiotic relationship benefiting both parties, the athlete and the university. Unlike what the OP said, most every undergraduate or grad student would definitely change places and benefits in a minute with the opportunities of a debt less, D1 athlete. Heck what D2 or D3 star athlete wouldn’t trade their rights and benefits with any D1 athlete less a non athletic student?

That's ridiculous and grad students should unionize to change that. I thought they got a cut, but I'm wrong.

To me it isn't about Zion. It's about someone like Gerry who peaked in celebrity in college. He could have made a killing in CNY and Scranton.

I was a D3 athlete. It was fun. If someone wants to pay a D3 athlete to make an appearance somewhere they should be able to.

 

[orangecuse]

You can be like something and not have all the same qualities. A bunch of men at the top controlling all the money and deciding for themselves what the workers are worth.

Well, since this subject matter is largely political, is what you said any different than how this country rolls and has rolled for decades? During these democratic conventions recently, you keep hearing how 2% of the population in this country has 90% of the wealth.

 

[Alsacs]

if you are in the NFL there are limits on what you can endorse, there are limits in things you can do, there are limits on other jobs you can take..

when you work for any company they can build in limits on what you can do or endorse there just isnt the same market for it.

again this is a system to try and make it fair for 100's of schools to compete, its not a system to make a few kids extra money.

if you want a system where kids get paid then build one.

The NFL has collectively bargained with its Players Association what they can and can't endorse. The stuff illegal is agreed to by the players.

Collegiate athletes don't have a CBA. Why is restricting players from getting endorsements being spun to that whole teams will get paid. Also what is wrong with entire teams getting paid. If someone is stupid and wants to pay these athletes then what is wrong with that. Why now do recruits go to Alabama and not Buffalo?
Or go to Duke and not Siena?

 

[NKR1978]

Are 98 percent of athletes going to get any “endorsement money” that these bills are saying? It seems like they will benefit the top 2 percent of athletes and next to nothing for anyone else

So?

In from a small town. There was a girl who scored 2000 points in high school and played at Lehigh. One of the few D1 athletes we had even a low level. She could have made a few hundred dollars doing local appearances or maybe some newspaper ads for a year out of high school. She was a local celebrity. There are countless small town athletes like her that could make a little extra cash.

 

[NKR1978]

Well, since this subject matter is largely political, is what you said any different than how this country rolls and has rolled for decades? During these democratic conventions recently, you keep hearing how 2% of the population in this country has 90% of the wealth.

Ironically...a good chunk of the top 1% in this situation wants to hand out money to people and the lower wage earners want to stop it.

 

[NKR1978]

You do have it backwards. Research done by students at universities get nothing. All patents, licensing, and intellectual property are owned by the university.

Same goes with many corporations doing research, unless you have enough clout to get it written into your contract.

Thank you. That's an idiotic rule. I'll leave my stupidity up though so people can laugh at me.

Grad students should unionize and disrupt the system.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Are 98 percent of athletes going to get any “endorsement money” that these bills are saying? It seems like they will benefit the top 2 percent of athletes and next to nothing for anyone else

I would say it's more like 0.5%...

Let's assume every NBA & NFL player was a top flight college athlete worthy of profiting from their likeness.

Total of NBA players on active rosters = 450 (15*30)
Total of NFL players on active rosters = 1,696 (53*32)

For a grand total of 2,146 faux student athletes some feel are currently cheated by the system.

Number of collegiate athletes competing under the NCAA = ~460,000

2,146/460,000 = 0.47%

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Are you sure of that? Grad students many of them research assistants etc don’t even own their own intellectual property and are prevented from working outside jobs while requiring them to pay for tuition, meals, room and board. These are students in academia, the actual mission of universities. No wonder many in academia are in disbelief regarding the attention these ‘poor athletes‘ get. The NCAA has done a good job getting athletes deserved special treatment already. The work of students who are toiling on such vital issues like cancer research, genetic anomalies, invasive species, climate change, new non fossil fuel options etc do so while still responsible for tuition, room & board, meals etc because they are learning and using university facilities. Their images are worthless because they don’t get the free tv time, articles, free publicity that athletes do. Instead they leave with huge debt. This despite scholarship athletes accumulating no debt for their education, room and board, meals plus receiving stipends and financial aid because some think athletes are being cheated not getting money officially from outside sources for their image or a piece of the profits (wouldn’t most long term employees of corporations love to get a guaranteed percentage of their profits?). How many student medical doctors who work many times more than full time in hospitals during training, would trade places with athletes and the benefits they receive Average Medical School Debt in the Class of 2018 — NerdWallet

I love sports (obviously) and think it gives opportunities that many of these kids would never have otherwise to realize their dream. Why are people crying that Zion Williamson didn’t make more money in his 1 year in college yet could care less that the average medical doctor leaves with over $196,000 in loans from just medical school alone? (with maximum of 80 hour work weeks)

Zion had options - the Bazely Route, overseas, G League, street ball leagues yet he voluntarily chose college for his own benefit. What in any of this legislation stops athletes from getting money, benefits like they do now while in high school, prep school, AAU season or continuing even under the table in college? Sorry I want these student athletes to succeed but I’m not crying for these talented athletes over lost income that they voluntarily and contractually forego while in college in a symbiotic relationship benefiting both parties, the athlete and the university. Unlike what the OP said, most every undergraduate or grad student would definitely change places and benefits in a minute with the opportunities of a debt less, D1 athlete. Heck what D2 or D3 star athlete wouldn’t trade their rights and benefits with any D1 athlete less a non athletic student?

They also get free training, development, nutrition, housing, and marketing. The schools invest in the kids and they get the financial benefits in return.

If Zion signed a 5 year deal with Nike before Duke he would be making significantly less than he would with $0 at Duke plus what he will be getting NBA years 1-4.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Thank you. That's an idiotic rule. I'll leave my stupidity up though so people can laugh at me.

Grad students should unionize and disrupt the system.

It's really not an idiotic rule when you consider the investment the institution made to fund the student's patent research.

The university created the lab/test facility, provided professors and lab techs to help guide & mentor the student.

It should reap the benefit of that student's research so they can continue to pay it forward to future generations of students who research and invent new patents.

The student has the benefit of listing the patent on his/her resume and will be offered countless professional opportunities to monetize it over their 30-40 year career.

 

[NKR1978]

It's really not an idiotic rule when you consider the investment the institution made to fund the student's patent research.

The university created the lab/test facility, provided professors and lab techs to help guide & mentor the student.

It should reap the benefit of that student's research so they can continue to pay it forward to future generations of students who research and invent new patents in the future.

The student has the benefit of listing the patent on his/her resume and will be offered countless professional opportunities to monetize it over their 30-40 year career.

I think people should get paid cash for their work. Exposure had value, but it doesn't out food on my tabld.

 

[RandomGuy]

NKR1978 - The "Plantation owners"?

Seriously? The "Plantation owners"?

How can anything you write be taken seriously when you refer to the college presidents as "plantation owners"?

In the grand scheme of things this amount of money is a drop in the bucket. But, I'm naive or beyond naive for recognizing that?

Townie, the former president of the NCAA -the guy that coined the term student athlete- has said the NCAA has evolved into a "plantation system" His words. Nkr1978's comments are not without merit. I'll take the guys word who came up with this whole damn mess, that its broken.

As a free market capitalist, I believe that the market will most often come up with a solution. I dont know of another industry that completely relies on unpaid, talented workers, but we're not even talking about that.

I feel every argument against , is the fear that "my team" may not compete as well. While it may be true, I can't argue that position. I hope the NCAA/PA would institute policies where the have nots have a better chance to level the field. (Use of likeness revenue share to the have nots? Distributed across the team, as opposed to the few big earners?)

 

[Alsacs]

Townie, the former president of the NCAA -the guy that coined the term student athlete- has said the NCAA has evolved into a "plantation system" His words. Nkr1978's comments are not without merit. I'll take the guys word who came up with this whole damn mess, that its broken.

As a free market capitalist, I believe that the market will most often come up with a solution. I dont know of another industry that completely relies on unpaid, talented workers, but we're not even talking about that.

I feel every argument against , is the fear that "my team" may not compete as well. While it may be true, I can't argue that position. I hope the NCAA/PA would institute policies where the have nots have a better chance to level the field

This is exactly what I feel. This may hurt my team but I care more about free market and getting rid of restrictions to protect the ones making all the money.

If it hurts Syracuse that sucks but Syracuse is getting a good deal from the TV money and sponsorships they are getting.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I think people should get paid cash for their work. Exposure had value, but it doesn't out food on my tabld.

Cash can't buy experience/education.

The licensed electrician makes more than his/her apprentice for a reason.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It's really not an idiotic rule when you consider the investment the institution made to fund the student's patent research.

The university created the lab/test facility, provided professors and lab techs to help guide & mentor the student.

It should reap the benefit of that student's research so they can continue to pay it forward to future generations of students who research and invent new patents in the future.

The student has the benefit of listing the patent on his/her resume and will be offered countless professional opportunities to monetize it over their 30-40 year career.

Which is pretty much the same thing as athletics is doing for each player.

 

[NKR1978]

Cash can't buy experience/education.

The licensed electrician makes more than his/her apprentice for a reason.

But the apprentice makes money. And I bet the apprentice would get a bigger cut if she brought in a huge contract.

 

[qdawgg]

Calling the system a "plantation system" is complete nonsense. It's absolutely lazy analysis.

Compare it to any period of Industrialization around the world and that makes a lot of sense. But referring to it in any way to the "plantation system" is absolutely ridiculous because the greatest factor between the two systems is choice and options.

 

[NKR1978]

Which is pretty much the same thing as athletics is doing for each player.

If the players are so irrelevant why do schools out them on marketing materials?

Eric Dungey isn't going to have a significant pro career, or any pro career. Syracuse made money marketing him. And he didn't get to make any on himself. Syracuse didn't nurture him to be altruistic. It did it to make money.

 

[NKR1978]

Calling the system a "plantation system" is complete nonsense. It's absolutely lazy analysis.

Compare it to any period of Industrialization around the world and that makes a lot of sense. But referring to it in any way to the "plantation system" is absolutely ridiculous because the greatest factor between the two systems is choice and options.

Did you read any of the think pieces or did you just have a visceral reaction?

 

[qdawgg]

If you work at a big pharmaceutical and while on company time/resources, etc. come up with a cure for testicular cancer. Is the company going to allow you to take that information and profit from it solely on your own?

 

[rrlbees]

Why do some people act like athletes get “nothing”?

 

[Alsacs]

If you work at a big pharmaceutical and while on company time/resources, etc. come up with a cure for testicular cancer. Is the company going to allow you to take that information and profit from it solely on your own?

Someone hasn't watched the show Silicon Valley on HBO. Don't use company time and resources for any project that doesn't involve the company you are working at.

 

[qdawgg]

Did you read any of the think pieces or did you just have a visceral reaction?

I've read them before, it's not a plantation system.

The absence of choice/options on a plantation system, alone, makes any correlation moot and designed for shock. Again, compare it to other comparable historical situations, like any period of Industrialization. Otherwise, it's just shock value.