Never seen more mentally soft seniors

[jdubs30]

I'm just disappointed. Really thought BT would have a great senior year and thought James would be more consistent.

I don't think BT ever bought into his role at the "2". He always viewed himself as a point.

Jake do you know how JB viewed BT coming in as a freshman? Did he think BT would be a point or more of a 2? Obviously he's played PG throughout his career, but his game always seemed to be more suited as a 2 guard.

 

[swish7]

I'm just disappointed. Really thought BT would have a great senior year and thought James would be more consistent.

I don't think BT ever bought into his role at the "2". He always viewed himself as a point.

BT not buying into not being the PG, and MCW being a 'learn on the job' PG, has got to be one source of this team's chemistry issues.

 

[Jake]

Jake do you know how JB viewed BT coming in as a freshman? Did he think BT would be a point or more of a 2? Obviously he's played PG throughout his career, but his game always seemed to be more suited as a 2 guard.

Combo guard who could play both, but the fact that he slid him to the two as his career went on kind of explains that no?

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Let me clarify, I don't think he should have started any year (Sophomore year is debatable I guess, but developing Dion would have paid greater dividends imo), because he should have been recruited over even going into this year. Or at least been a token starter for this final year.

So, this year, yes, he should start by default considering our roster, I wouldn't argue TC over BT (i'm not insane)- but I don't think it ever should have come to that.

I like him as someone off the bench, capable of a big half and some extended run when those outbursts occur, but fairly average in most facets of the game. A great program player, a great kid, and it's definitely sad to see it playing out like this because he is a lot better than what we've seen over the past few weeks.

What difference did it make that BT started his frosh year? Scoop was coming back from injury and issues. Starting BT made good sense and allowed for ample substitutions. It made Scoop try and play D. And no one really knows the value it played in getting DC2 here. How you consider that to be a mistake is a mystery to me. For BTs soph year, Dion did not play D. Secondly, how exactly would it have helped if Dion developed? Dion was teetering on leaving after his frosh year as it was, giving him a frosh start just may have done it. And last year, Dion fouled out in the biggest game of the year anyway.

Just how, and who, were you going to get to recruit over BT? Last year a McD was the 4th guard, and a highly recruited player was taking a redshirt, and there was a returning 3 year starter. And this is all pretending they knew that Dion was going pro and they didn't know of the staff's heavy interest in Ennis for the following year. And then there is the whole MG thing too.

The combination of frustration and hindsight can lead to strange results. This is one of them. Don't start BT in earlier years during one of the programs best stretches in history because he is in a slump in his senior year. Classic.

 

[Millhouse]

I shouldn't blame just those two, now that I've cooled off a bit. This team just doesn't have a player to take over once adversity strikes. The ball gets rolling downhill so fast against them. It needs a Dion personality.

It's just been do ugly offensively. Can't blame anyone but ourselves.

You were more right when you were streamed

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Oakland]

In my life. Brandon and James are softer than wet charmin. This team is going nowhere fast.

There are a lot of posts in this thread that seem to focus on the last 10 games while forgetting that he played lots of minutes on two teams that most of you thought capable of winning the NC. He is not Kyrie Irving or Derrick Rose or Sherman Douglas, but he is a very productive 4 yr starter who will will end up with the 1st or 2nd most wins in SU history, many of which he helped win. I think every player on this team (and JB) is responsible for this late season collapse, except CJ Fair.

 

[Ghost]

What difference did it make that BT started his frosh year? Scoop was coming back from injury and issues. Starting BT made good sense and allowed for ample substitutions. It made Scoop try and play D. And no one really knows the value it played in getting DC2 here. How you consider that to be a mistake is a mystery to me. For BTs soph year, Dion did not play D. Secondly, how exactly would it have helped if Dion developed? Dion was teetering on leaving after his frosh year as it was, giving him a frosh start just may have done it. And last year, Dion fouled out in the biggest game of the year anyway.

Just how, and who, were you going to get to recruit over BT? Last year a McD was the 4th guard, and a highly recruited player was taking a redshirt, and there was a returning 3 year starter. And this is all pretending they knew that Dion was going pro and they didn't know of the staff's heavy interest in Ennis for the following year. And then there is the whole MG thing too.

The combination of frustration and hindsight can lead to strange results. This is one of them. Don't start BT in earlier years during one of the programs best stretches in history because he is in a slump in his senior year. Classic.

I've been consistent on this and my thoughts on BT - so not sure what's hindsight about my post.

What if we lost Dion because Scoop didn't start that year??? That's all speculative nonsense about DC2 coming because BT started his Frosh season.

I don't know what difference it makes, because it didn't happen. Maybe it leads to disastrous results - who knows. I certainly don't. I'll readily admit that.

I don't think he was ever good enough to be a starter - he's a complimentary player. I also never thought his defense is nearly what people make it out to be either - consistent on that too. I think that got pushed his Sophomore year when he was struggling at times and then it just became fact on the forum because it got repeated enough. He's decent on defense, just like everything else in his skill set - decent.

Again, which makes him a great third guard - but never starter material imo. I'm perfectly fine with disagreement on any of this - but he always seemed fairly pedestrian and when he was a primary 2 guard, Sophomore year and this year, the offense tended to struggle, because I don't think he opens up much for anyone else and never has.

I conceded that he should start this year because he's better than TC - I think we prolly knew Dion wasn't staying long, so I would have liked more insurance IF it was possible. Mookie's roller coaster ride obviously hurt in that regard as well.

 

[Francis03]

Francis should answer this question, but the quick summary is that his top two were SU and Duke. He picked Duke, then quickly felt a sense of buyer's remorse when he got to Durham. I also don't read too much into him not playing--they had a veteran backcourt and another frosh who played a TON. A friend of mine who is a big Duke fan was disappointed to see him transfer.

Kid sounds like a great prospect--quality pickup for us. Also glad that he had a chance to practice all year with his new teammates. I expect him to be ready to start and contribute at a high level next year--hope he can shoot consistently.

You pretty much said all that needed to be said. He has mentioned that he's practicing some PG as well. Should be a solid player for us. My only question to be answered next year, is how good of a shooter he is?

 

[triplethrea]

I posted a thread a while ago breaking down what I felt was the mental profile of our players: http://syracusefan.com/threads/wheres-your-head-at.41553/

Here's some excerpts:

Brandon Triche - Classic introvert. ALWAYS in his head. Even when he is playing at a high level, he is still in his head. I know because I am an introvert as well. I know his type.

For everybody who wants to know what goes on in his head, my best guess is something like this: "OK, coach is watching I got to do good at right now, ok I have the ball right now, I'm just going to give it to MCW, OK he passed it back, you know what, I'm a senior, I'm a leader, I'm going to show these guys how it's done." Then he goes off for 20. Then he gets in his head about something negative and he stops believing in himself. Classic negative expectation grid.

I've seen people in real life who are like this and gotten out of this loop, but it is very difficult. People who don't have experience with this do not understand people like Triche, which is why Boeheim is so bewildered by him. Triche can be an All-American, he could be in the NBA already, but instead he is here and will probably be in Europe next year, playing the same exact way.

So what should we expect? I don't see him breaking out of this positive thought/negative thought loop so we need other leaders on this team, which we luckily have in MCW. We cannot always count on him to step up, he will step up whenever he steps up (if that makes sense) so we should never 100% lean on Triche. But when he is playing good, we need to milk that to the fullest.

James Southerland - A senior who is VERY prone to mental lapses. He has the body and talent of a NBA lottery pick, but the head of a mid-major player. I don't mean that in a "dumb" way, but in a "struggles to put it all together on the court" way. He is another guy who is having difficulty mentally overcoming his low recruiting ranking. Everyone tells him how good he can be, but he is still convincing himself. Sometimes it works (Arkansas game), sometimes it doesn't (all the games he disappears).

He is just as likely to have an incredible dunk (like in the 1st half against Providence) as finish 1 for 12 the rest of the game. The problem is that he is a senior that does not have that much court experience. By being a senior, younger players are supposed to look up to him, but he is literally as emotionally experienced as MCW. When our team was falling apart against Detroit, Temple, and even Alcorn St. the camera would show Southerland freaking out. As soon as Boeheim pulled him to the bench, our team would get it's together. He is (at this late point in his college career) still unstable. He does not yet fully have the demeanor of a senior. He does, but when hits the fan, he does not. Until he proves that he can handle tense situations, we are better off having the next best guy on the court.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You pretty much said all that needed to be said. He has mentioned that he's practicing some PG as well. Should be a solid player for us. My only question to be answered next year, is how good of a shooter he is?

Wasn't Silent G considered a very good 3 pt shooter coming out? What did he shoot at Duke that one year?

 

[DoctorBombay]

There are a lot of posts in this thread that seem to focus on the last 10 games while forgetting that he played lots of minutes on two teams that most of you thought capable of winning the NC. He is not Kyrie Irving or Derrick Rose or Sherman Douglas, but he is a very productive 4 yr starter who will will end up with the 1st or 2nd most wins in SU history, many of which he helped win. I think every player on this team (and JB) is responsible for this late season collapse, except CJ Fair.

Ok- this gets thrown around like it should exonerate or qualify BT's current play. The issue isn't that Triche played 2nd, 3rd, and 4th fiddle on two NC caliber #1 seeded teams, its that he was EXPECTED to be more than he has shown THIS year.
He's been a co-star for 4 long years- that's alot of experience under his belt. It was almost a given that he'd step in and LEAD this year's team. So far, he's failed miserably...and at a time when its needed most.
So what if they got off to a great start- cbb is remembered for March, and in these last 10 games BT and this team have been awful.
All the- "He was a starter for 4 years on some good teams" excuses won't cut it right now.
The team lacks leadership, and their senior & most experienced player looks like a deer in the headlights.
Who gives a damn what he did when Wes, Andy, Scoop, AO, KJo, RJ, Dion, and Fab were around- we need him THIS season. :bang:

 

[SWC75]

I posted a thread a while ago breaking down what I felt was the mental profile of our players: http://syracusefan.com/threads/wheres-your-head-at.41553/

Here's some excerpts:

Brandon cares very much about his misses, James not at all. They need to find a middle ground.

 

[orange79]

Wasn't Silent G considered a very good 3 pt shooter coming out? What did he shoot at Duke that one year?

In 111 minutes played (19 total games played), Michael was 4-10 from 3, 11-20 overall, and 7-7 from the FT line. Probably not a large enough sample to draw any conclusions, though.

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=2746

 

[dlegend44]

Dion is far and away the biggest loss from last year. Not even close.



I have to disagree. Fab Melo was the biggest loss from last year...with a big IF. IF Fab was academically elibigle! This year's team we would be even better than last year. Fab's defensive presence last year was one of the best I have ever seen, both blocking shots and taking charges. It allowed the guards to be more aggressive in going for steals and get out on the break without worrying about help defense or rebounding.

Last year's team also struggled in the half court set at times. The transition game was the difference last year. Fab was also able to provide some inside scoring and probably would have averaged at least 10 points per game this year. Our inability to score inside from the half court set is what is really killing this year's team. That is the reason that JS and BT keeping chucking-up contested 3-point shots even though they have been ice cold.

 

[Francis03]

Wasn't Silent G considered a very good 3 pt shooter coming out? What did he shoot at Duke that one year?

Shot 4-10 40% at Duke last year. Yes he was known as a solid shooter back in HS, but who knows how consistent his range will be after not playing serious ball in the last 2 seasons.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Shot 4-10 40% at Duke last year. Yes he was known as a solid shooter back in HS, but who knows how consistent his range will be after not playing serious ball in the last 2 seasons.

Hopefully, he watched how badly we needed shooting all year and has spent his time really working on crafting a consistent jumper for when it's his time to roll.

 

[TinyManInside]

I cannot wait to watch an SU game in which Triche isn't playing.

 

[albanycuse]

I cannot wait to watch an SU game in which Triche isn't playing.

Never has a senior played so badly yet defended by people with : he's a good guy,student,teammate. He's a basketball player , thats why hes put under a microscope.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Never has a senior played so badly yet defended by people with : he's a good guy,student,teammate. He's a basketball player , thats why hes put under a microscope.

Craig Forth, his senior year. Much better year as a junior.

 

[albanycuse]

Craig Forth, his senior year. Much better year as a junior.

Comon now. Nothing was expected from Forth offensively. He was here to fill space, set picks, and clog the lane.

 

[Millhouse]

I cannot wait to watch an SU game in which Triche isn't playing.

it's really hard to believe that he hasn't hit bottom yet. each game i think this has to be as bad as it'll get

 

[orangenirvana]

I posted a thread a while ago breaking down what I felt was the mental profile of our players: http://syracusefan.com/threads/wheres-your-head-at.41553/

Here's some excerpts:

People who don't have experience with this do not understand people like Triche, which is why Boeheim is so bewildered by him.

I think these psychological assessments probably are accurate for the most part. But I don't think Boeheim is "bewildered" by Triche at all. JB is a very smart man and has been working directly with college kids for roughly 200 years now. He gets it, he understands what type of personality Triche is. Listen to JB talk about Triche...it's always delicate words, very complimentary. On Wednesday, he heaped as much praise on Triche as he has nearly anyone he has ever coached.

 

[pfister1]

There are a lot of posts in this thread that seem to focus on the last 10 games while forgetting that he played lots of minutes on two teams that most of you thought capable of winning the NC. He is not Kyrie Irving or Derrick Rose or Sherman Douglas, but he is a very productive 4 yr starter who will will end up with the 1st or 2nd most wins in SU history, many of which he helped win. I think every player on this team (and JB) is responsible for this late season collapse, except CJ Fair.

This is true. However, he was a fourth or fifth option on those teams when he was younger. You naturally expect that guy, when he starts all four years, to rise up and take on more on as a senior. It doesn't seem like BT has been able to do that this year. He seems like he is largely the same player now as he was then, except now there aren't other players capable of shouldering the load.

I think CJ will be the same way next year. If there isn't someone capable of stepping up and being a lead scorer, we're in for a rough year next year as well. Let's hope Gbinije can be that guy because I don't see it (next season) in any of the frosh.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I cannot wait to watch an SU game in which Triche isn't playing.

Harsh, but true. Sad...

 

[RF2044]

This is true. However, he was a fourth or fifth option on those teams when he was younger. You naturally expect that guy, when he starts all four years, to rise up and take on more on as a senior. It doesn't seem like BT has been able to do that this year. He seems like he is largely the same player now as he was then, except now there aren't other players capable of shouldering the load.

I think CJ will be the same way next year. If there isn't someone capable of stepping up and being a lead scorer, we're in for a rough year next year as well. Let's hope Gbinije can be that guy because I don't see it (next season) in any of the frosh.

Sorry, but that's a poor comparison, pfister. Triche was a guy who averaged single digits, that people projected could do more based upon potential flashes and a forecasted jump in minutes / shot opportunities.

CJ is ALREADY performing at that level. The question is whether he can do just a bit more than he's already doing--improving his 14.5+ PPG to somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 PPG. It isn't about actualizing potential at all for Fair, it is about whether he can take things up a notch to approach all-american level.