New assistant coach: Allen Griffin

[Orange Barrel]

Still wondering why people are saying GMac has done a poor job coaching the guards, as if it's a fact.

I mean, is it as simple as "Joseph flopped as a young player, and Howard has been bad. GMac's fault!"?? That's what it feels like.

By the same measure, does he get the credit for turning Gbinije from a backup SF into the starting PG on a final four team and an NBA draft pick?

If it's his fault Joseph was bad as a freshman, does he get credit that Ennis was so good as a freshman?

How about lottery picks Dion and MCW? Credit? Or nah?

Narrative. Don't stray from the narrative. GMAC sucks. JB is mailing it in. Everything is . I know this because I read the recruiting board where the same five guys post the same crap over and over again so it must be true.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Maybe you already saw this article, but Boeheim was not planning on conducting any interviews because on one occasion in the past, he tried interviewing candidates for an opening and ended up liking all of the candidates.

That's hysterical. Out of the mind that brought us: "we don't do game day shoot-arounds because one time, a player sprained his ankle."

 

[OrangeDW]

Narrative. Don't stray from the narrative. GMAC sucks. JB is mailing it in. Everything is s h it. I know this because I read the recruiting board where the same five guys post the same crap over and over again so it must be true.

Yeah. It just seems kinda like a made up narrative to claim GMac can't coach. As if any of us fans have any way of knowing a thing about whether he can or can't.

Unless, like I said earlier, they're basing it strictly off the performance of the guards as a whole. Like, that thoroughbred Trevor Cooney didn't turn into a multidimensional, smooth, All American...COACH'S FAULT!

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Yes, the majority of posters are male, but I can think of at least 8 female posters right off the top of my head that post regularly.

Ah but where? On the basketball forum and the off topic board or the Olympic/Women's boards where people seldom if ever are in major disagreement?

BBallBeadle and Llandz - why aren't they commenting about the NC fiasco in the making? Ok possibly they packed it in after we lost in the NIT but they weren't posting as much before that either.

I really do think that unfortunately one needs a very strong stomach/pair of whatevers to put up with the incivility that both women and men get handed here, by people who stick to their biases, be they basketball or political, despite being shown EVIDENCE that they are wrong. And this is why a lot of the old time MALE posters aren't here either. They either lurk or go elsewhere for their SU sports information.

This is a systemic problem that's bigger than this one Internet forum. It happens on Facebook and Twitter and Linked In and the Mets board I used to go to that makes this one look like Romper Room!

 

[billsin01]

My responses:

• Which is why I agreed with the post earlier about him being a high floor but low ceiling add to the staff.

Just one quibble with this -- do we really know if Griffin is truly a low ceiling guy? Not saying he's a Murphy or a Weaver and it's hard to argue with the thought that a hired gun like that could really, really help right about now. But Griffin worked for five or six years with Miller, who was a really hot commodity this offseason and had a good run at Dayton. It feels like at a higher profile program Griffin can take some of that experience and potentially be a pretty solid asset as a coach and as a recruiter. With that said, I feel like there's a chance he's a high ceiling guy in addition to a high floor guy.

 

[OrangeDW]

Just one quibble with this -- do we really know if Griffin is truly a low ceiling guy? Not saying he's a Murphy or a Weaver and it's hard to argue with the thought that a hired gun like that could really, really help right about now. But Griffin worked for five or six years with Miller, who was a really hot commodity this offseason and had a good run at Dayton. It feels like at a higher profile program Griffin can take some of that experience and potentially be a pretty solid asset as a coach and as a recruiter. With that said, I feel like there's a chance he's a high ceiling guy in addition to a high floor guy.

Right? Before Syracuse, Rob Murphy was a Kent State assistant.

Obviously Allen Griffin, or anybody else, isn't going to be reeling in 5 star recruits at Dayton. Doesn't mean he can't do it at Syracuse though.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah. It just seems kinda like a made up narrative to claim GMac can't coach. As if any of us fans have any way of knowing a thing about whether he can or can't.

Unless, like I said earlier, they're basing it strictly off the performance of the guards as a whole. Like, that thoroughbred Trevor Cooney didn't turn into a multidimensional, smooth, All American...COACH'S FAULT!

GMac became the assistant coach in 2012.
So from 2013 onward I would say we really only had one guard really develop during his tenure. Michael Gbinije who really was a SF that we out of necessity made a PG.

I don't count our guards who weren't NBA draft picks have developed much but I will list them to be fair.

I want GMac to succeed as he isn't going anywhere but seeing better results shouldn't be a lot to ask.

Good players: MCW, Ennis
Okay: Cooney, Battle
Misses: Joseph, Patterson
Hopefully gets better: Howard.

This isn't exactly a good job. Considering again GMac had no experience before he got an elite assistant job in 2012.
Griffin worked his butt off compared to GMac.

Griffin was a grad assistant here, went to St. Francis was an assistant there. Worked his way up to Dayton after we hired Autry after Greenberg was fired from VPI.

Griffin has worked up the ladder I am confident he can do the job.

 

[MiniCuse]

wrong. they all have the exact same resume. just different time frames. (at least AG walked around the block once.)
my guess is that JB being the megalomaniac he is likes coaches he can control easily and only know his way.

Hopkins is a seasoned veteran with NCAA, Olympic and international experience working with veteran coaches like JB, Coach K, Tom Thibodeau, and Monty Williams. He's coached at a much higher level than Griffin. He's coached some of the most talented players in the world. I liked Griffin as a player. I like bringing him home to coach on the Hill and I wish nothing but success for him and SU basketball. His coaching resume is decent and he has been successful, but his experience doesn't stack up to Hopkin's experience. Coaching and recruiting at Dayton is not comparable to years of Big East, ACC and USA basketball coaching experience. There were no candidates for this job that have Mike's resume. Hence, any hire is a downgrade.

Your "guess" about why JB hired him is agenda-driven. Griffin is a good hire.

 

[OrangeDW]

GMac became the assistant coach in 2012.
So from 2013 onward I would say we really only had one guard really develop during his tenure. Michael Gbinije who really was a SF that we out of necessity made a PG.

I don't count our guards who weren't NBA draft picks have developed much but I will list them to be fair.

I want GMac to succeed as he isn't going anywhere but seeing better results shouldn't be a lot to ask.

Good players: MCW, Ennis
Okay: Cooney, Battle
Misses: Joseph, Patterson
Hopefully gets better: Howard.

This isn't exactly a good job. Considering again GMac had no experience before he got an elite assistant job in 2012.
Griffin worked his butt off compared to GMac.

Griffin was a grad assistant here, went to St. Francis was an assistant there. Worked his way up to Dayton after we hired Autry after Greenberg was fired from VPI.

Griffin has worked up the ladder I am confident he can do the job.

If we're really holding guys like Ron Patterson against him...I mean, you can't get blood out of a stone. And it's not all on the assistant coach either.

Also, giving up on marginal prospects after a year or two because they didn't do anything right away...that's not GMac's fault that the program was in a position where they had to do that. I mean, guys like Joseph, Patterson, Howard would've never seen the floor until their Junior year in the past. Throwing marginal prospects into the fire right away because we've got nobody else, and blaming the assistant coach when the not very good players prove to be...not very good. That just doesn't seem right to me.

As an aside, curious why MCW's freshman to sophomore year jump doesn't "count". GMac was here.

 

[Briancuse]

Ding ding. Was hoping someone would specifically call it out

Your avatar is great.

 

[Alsacs]

If we're really holding guys like Ron Patterson against him...I mean, you can't get blood out of a stone. And it's not all on the assistant coach either.

Also, giving up on marginal prospects after a year or two because they didn't do anything right away...that's not GMac's fault that the program was in a position where they had to do that. I mean, guys like Joseph, Patterson, Howard would've never seen the floor until their Junior year in the past. Throwing marginal prospects into the fire right away because we've got nobody else, and blaming the assistant coach when the not very good players prove to be...not very good. That just doesn't seem right to me.

As an aside, curious why MCW's freshman to sophomore year jump doesn't "count". GMac was here.

MCW is all Mike Hopkins. We don't get him without Hop and Hop was the guy who worked with him when he was a freshman pre-GMac as the
guards coach.

Hamilton’s Michael Carter-Williams carries the doubt that fueled his rise - The Boston Globe

GMac was the guy who lead the recruitment of Patterson. So it wasn't blood out of stone when he was recruiting him.

You think GMac has done a good job with the guards? I think GMac hurt expectations for Cooney by what he said in the media about the kid.

 

[OrangeDW]

MCW is all Mike Hopkins. We don't get him without Hop and Hop was the guy who worked with him when he was a freshman pre-GMac as the
guards coach.

Hamilton’s Michael Carter-Williams carries the doubt that fueled his rise - The Boston Globe

GMac was the guy who lead the recruitment of Patterson. So it wasn't blood out of stone when he was recruiting him.

You think GMac has done a good job with the guards? I think GMac hurt expectations for Cooney by what he said in the media about the kid.

Hopkins recruited MCW. Was Hop working with the guards in 2012-13?

GMac recruiting Patterson, the program being in a position where Patterson actually got minutes right away, and Patterson not being a very good player as a freshman/soph. are all different things.

I have no idea if GMac is doing a good job with the guards. Short of being at practice everyday, I don't know how anyone else does either.

I'm not forming an opinion on it based on how a few marginal talents that got minutes too early played, though.

Cooney was what he was, and frankly I think he maxed out here.

 

[syr14]

What would this board be if it weren't writing somebody off?

SU is not ready to give up on GMac, so maybe people here should get over it and stop ripping the guy.

 

[tbonezone]

the word agenda can be applied appropriately as an underlying motive in an argument. it is not however meant as a term to automatically denigrate and falsify the opinion of anyone who happens to disagree with your viewpoint.

 

[orange79]

Ah but where? On the basketball forum and the off topic board or the Olympic/Women's boards where people seldom if ever are in major disagreement?

BBallBeadle and Llandz - why aren't they commenting about the NC fiasco in the making? Ok possibly they packed it in after we lost in the NIT but they weren't posting as much before that either.

I really do think that unfortunately one needs a very strong stomach/pair of whatevers to put up with the incivility that both women and men get handed here, by people who stick to their biases, be they basketball or political, despite being shown EVIDENCE that they are wrong. And this is why a lot of the old time MALE posters aren't here either. They either lurk or go elsewhere for their SU sports information.

This is a systemic problem that's bigger than this one Internet forum. It happens on Facebook and Twitter and Linked In and the Mets board I used to go to that makes this one look like Romper Room!

Then perhaps this isn't the place for you. Why do you think you can tell posters (male or female) what they should or should not be posting about? People post about what they want to post about, when they want to post it. It's not a male/female thing.

 

[JrodCuse]

Is it even confirmed its Griffin? I've seen a bunch of reports saying that its false he was hired.

 

[two3zone]

Because the few women posters here hardly ever post anymore, with the exception of one whose name is gender neutral and once in a while one of the moderators. I think it's that their posts tend to be taken less seriously just as mine often are compared to guys'. However if you look you will see where I also said a lot of the old time MALE posters have left here. I think the general incivility has made them either lurk only or, you know, have a life that doesn't involve this forum!

Your posts are taken less seriously not because you're a female but because your takes are, politely saying, off the wall to the point where they can't be taken seriously.

 

[rrlbees]

GMac became the assistant coach in 2012.
So from 2013 onward I would say we really only had one guard really develop during his tenure. Michael Gbinije who really was a SF that we out of necessity made a PG.

I don't count our guards who weren't NBA draft picks have developed much but I will list them to be fair.

I want GMac to succeed as he isn't going anywhere but seeing better results shouldn't be a lot to ask.

Good players: MCW, Ennis
Okay: Cooney, Battle
Misses: Joseph, Patterson
Hopefully gets better: Howard.

This isn't exactly a good job. Considering again GMac had no experience before he got an elite assistant job in 2012.
Griffin worked his butt off compared to GMac.

Griffin was a grad assistant here, went to St. Francis was an assistant there. Worked his way up to Dayton after we hired Autry after Greenberg was fired from VPI.

Griffin has worked up the ladder I am confident he can do the job.

GMac became a full assistant prior to the start of the 2011-12 season. Some of the better guards that he has coached are:

Jardine
Waiters
Triche
MCW
Cooney
Gbinije
Ennis
Richardson
Battle
Gillon

3 1st round picks and a possible 4th. I've seen improvement in most of those guards while being coached by GMac. I have no issue with his coaching.

Prior to becoming a full time assistant, he was a grad assistant here for 2 years. I'm sure JB saw enough then to hire him as the 3rd assistant (not 1st or 2nd).

 

[Alsacs]

GMac became a full assistant prior to the start of the 2011-12 season. Some of the better guards that he has coached are:

Jardine
Waiters
Triche
MCW
Cooney
Gbinije
Ennis
Richardson
Battle
Gillon

3 1st round picks and a possible 4th. I've seen improvement in most of those guards while being coached by GMac. I have no issue with his coaching.

Prior to becoming a full time assistant, he was a grad assistant here for 2 years. I'm sure JB saw enough then to hire him as the 3rd assistant (not 1st or 2nd).

If your going to bring Waiters and Jardine and give their development to GMac that is your opinion.
I don't think you are but I will say that I don't think GMac was instrumental in their 2012 seasons.
If Richardson is guard then Gbinije is a forward.

The guy has been our weakest assistant IMO since he has been on the staff. He is going nowhere I know this and don't want him fired. I just expect more from a Syracuse assistant. GMac got an elite job as his first job. I don't think the points people who are questioning his performance are out of line.
People can disagree and it's okay.
JB feels different. That is fine.
I think Griffin is a better coach for the reasons I outlined.
He worked up the ladder and has been solid.

 

[two3zone]

GMac became a full assistant prior to the start of the 2011-12 season. Some of the better guards that he has coached are:

Jardine
Waiters
Triche
MCW
Cooney
Gbinije
Ennis
Richardson
Battle
Gillon

3 1st round picks and a possible 4th. I've seen improvement in most of those guards while being coached by GMac. I have no issue with his coaching.

Prior to becoming a full time assistant, he was a grad assistant here for 2 years. I'm sure JB saw enough then to hire him as the 3rd assistant (not 1st or 2nd).

I thought it was after the start of the season, when Fine was fired.

We started 11-12 with Fine, Hop, and Autry and Gmac was a grad assistant right?

 

[rrlbees]

I thought it was after the start of the season, when Fine was fired.

We started 11-12 with Fine, Hop, and Autry and Gmac was a grad assistant right?

November 2011

 

[kcsu]

Gmac is very fortunate he is learning on the job. Lets hope he improves.

 

[two3zone]

November 2011

Yeah, end of the month. Season started already.

blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2011/11/syracuse_basketball_gerry_mcna.html

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah, end of the month. Season started already.

blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2011/11/syracuse_basketball_gerry_mcna.html

So GMac coached him for almost the whole season. And fwiw, while he did various duties, even as a grad asst he spent a lot of his time with the guards.

I have no problem with his coaching of the guards here. A lot of them showed improvement under him.

 

[HOFCeluck]

If your going to bring Waiters and Jardine and give their development to GMac that is your opinion.
I don't think you are but I will say that I don't think GMac was instrumental in their 2012 seasons.
If Richardson is guard then Gbinije is a forward.

The guy has been our weakest assistant IMO since he has been on the staff. He is going nowhere I know this and don't want him fired. I just expect more from a Syracuse assistant. GMac got an elite job as his first job. I don't think the points people who are questioning his performance are out of line.
People can disagree and it's okay.
JB feels different. That is fine.
I think Griffin is a better coach for the reasons I outlined.
He worked up the ladder and has been solid.

Compare the career trajectories of Autry, Griffin, and GMAC.

I mean...