New assistant coach: Allen Griffin

[NYCSUGrad]

Or was Chino the third "son"? I think two of the three could be said to be busts (not BJ Johnson though)

 

[HOFCeluck]

This is probably true but I think it is also that people who are frustrating with the regional recruiting and some of the swing and misses are using Gerry as the target for that which I get because he is a much easier target than Boeheim or Hop or Red but the reality is that it is the staff as a whole and not on one person in my opinion. I think the frustration is that our 3rd assistant shouldn't be the primary recruiter. This goes back to USA Basketball and I'm sure we have discussed this enough.

Its really hard to put some of these recruiting misses (NAMELY Quade) at Gerry's feet. That's not fair,

 

[cuseinseattle]

I was just checking out nbadraft.net, they have Brisset listed as the 46th best incoming freshman.

he gone

 

[cuseinseattle]

That's not inconsistent with what I said. Any time he would get pulled and yelled at probably wore him down, even though it wasn't anything JB wouldn't do to all his players when they are messing up.

I think it was a perfect storm for Kaleb and that's quite sad.

Now Chino if you mean Chukwu I disagree about because he got poked in the eye during I think the second game, literally couldn't see straight then got poked again and was out for the season with a horribly painful and uncomfortable regimen to fix a detached retina.

Chino Obokoh is who I was referring to. I know it's not inconsistent with what you said. I agree with a lot of what you said. The only place I would differ is that it's not revisionist history or people trying to play monday morning quarterback. There are kids that many people liked and we didn't go after hard enough and missed out on. It's not like people waited for them to have good college careers to bring it up. I'm not saying you are doing this but others do. You asked what was being talking about on the recruiting forum and I was just giving you a broad stroke brush of it. I love Jim Boeheim and Syracuse Basketball as much as anyone on here and I feel like I'm more positive than some other posters who I feel like are more critical even thought I respect their opinions (Alsac, sobecuse, etc.). I also feel like we are trending in the wrong direction and need recruiting to get a shot in the arm. Hopefully Griff with his NYC background and hard working style along with increased responsibilities for Red will generate something positive in regards to recruiting. Losing Hop is a big blow to recruiting. I don't know how you could watch the team we have put on the floor for the last 3 years and compare it to our biggest ACC rivals (Duke, UNC and UVA) and think we are trending upward. Maybe that is just me though.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Simple solution: put me on ignore.

But there are a half dozen male posters who you have been arguing with too.

The difference between me and other posters here isn't my gender. It's that I have done stand up comedy for 25 years. So yes, smart Alec replies do indeed come out of me as if on auto pilot.

They do on Twitter and Facebook and Linked In too. It's just my style.

You don't like it, block me.

I have no time to do that I'm afraid.

So tell me what the recruiting board says that I'm not getting and neither are a half dozen male posters here.

I notice you tend to revert to the female/male card often...I don't see anywhere in this discussion whether it mattered if a poster was male or female, yet you brought it up as you have done in other threads...

 

[HOFCeluck]

I notice you tend to revert to the female/male card often...I don't see anywhere in this discussion whether it mattered if a poster was male or female, yet you brought it up as you have done in other threads...

I mean, its the internet. No one would have a clue if she didn't constantly bring it up in every thread.

 

[bpo57]

There's other reasons people knock GMacs recruiting and it's not just because of Green. The question is, who has Gmac brought in so far, then go through all those guys and see who has been a success. His record is putrid.

For the third time I'm talking specifically about the recruitment of Green.

 

[dasher]

Brissett or Sidibe?
Brissett seems like the higher upside player down the road IMO.

Sidibe

 

[BlackSquirrels]

If the staff and administration conducted their due process and deemed AG their guy then I will feel better. But, if there were no real interviews, litte conversation and dialog on the direction and needs of the program, well then, I couldn't agree more with it being a lazy hire (If that did occur it would also bring up some questions regarding the new AD). So I am very interested to find out how extensive the process was.

Maybe you already saw this article, but Boeheim was not planning on conducting any interviews because on one occasion in the past, he tried interviewing candidates for an opening and ended up liking all of the candidates.

 

[Janner]

My responses:

• does the program desperately need a dynamic recruiter or are they fine with a solid one? Absolutely -- recruiting is the life blood of any high major collegiate sports program. Not to knock the capabilities of the personnel on hand [including JB], but we've seen evidence recently of the staff not getting the job done, especially in the past year. We should be adding the best recruiters we can, to correct this issue - in the same way that Troy Weaver gave us a huge shot in the arm in 2002. Nothing against Griffin, I give him a lot of credit for leaving the fold and having success. I'm fine with hiring him, but I do think we missed an opportunity to bring in an ace, bulldog recruiter. Get the best candidate you can for the job, period. If that's somebody with connections to the program like Griffin, disco. But sometimes it is somebody external to the program, like Roby Murphy or the aforementioned Weaver. I feel like Griffin was a solid hire, but not somebody who is going to get the fan base excited or somebody who will move the needle on the recruiting trail. Which is why I agreed with the post earlier about him being a high floor but low ceiling add to the staff. Just to add to this, I am greatly encouraged by what we saw from JB in recent weeks, getting down to Georgia to visit Jordan Tucker, making his presence felt with important 2018 recruit Hameir Wright, etc. Great sign. But I feel like this hire was uninspired, and the "easy" choice. Would love for Griff to prove me wrong. Loved him as a player, respect him as a coach.

• My point being, do they maybe tweak the recruiting strategy to find players further down in the rankings that are more likely to stay for multiple years? Possibly. Our program has experienced the dual edged sword over the past few years of not having enough foundational talent / program guys. Part of that is due to early entrants, part of that is due to an excessively high number of transfers. Some of it is also due to unforeseen circumstances like DCII's body simply failing him this season after he was relatively healthy last year, and experienced starter Tyler Roberson regressing. I feel like the players we've added thus far in the class of 2017 will go a LONG way towards replenishing depth / talent, and stocking the program with four year guys who can be supplemented by higher rated recruits.

• Do they recruit similar kids but really push the 'family' angle of syracuse basketball? Nothing wrong with that, but whatever works.

I think this is a fantastic debate, and one of the reasons why I frequent this board as often as I do. On the one side we have struggled in recent years bringing in the top 10 top 20 level recruit, or for that matter, multiple top 30 level recruits in the same class like many of the "major" programs have year in and year out. Would an assistant coach, who is a very good recruiter, be able to provide enough of a boost to help break us through to the next level? Or would we pick up more of the Gerami Grant/Billy Edilin/Lydon/Richardson's of the world who always seem to leave just one year too early (speaking from the program's perspective, not that of the player and their draft status)?

Or should our program look to pursue a different caliber of player, potentially ones who don't necessarily have the elite NBA level potential that we can develop and get solid contributions from, like a Kennedy Meeks (I understand he was also a McD's all American and highly recruited, but he's useful in this example because he lacked the ideal "NBA skill set" and contributed significantly to their program). So do we bring in an assistant who can develop the C.J. Fair, Brandon Triche, and Michael Gbinije's of the world and work on having a team with a constant core upper classmen?

On a related note/question, how does UNC keep their kids from leaving? 9 of the 15 players on this years team are either Jr's or Sr's, 11 of the 15 last year were JR's or Sr's and they are always littered with MCD types

 

[Janner]

Maybe you already saw this article, but Boeheim was not planning on conducting any interviews because on one occasion in the past, he tried interviewing candidates for an opening and ended up liking all of the candidates.

Yes I do remember reading that article, and I remember being very worried about that comment. I honestly was hoping it was just JB being the obstinate JB that we tend to see from time to time (I personally get a kick out of his pressers, their must see tv for me lol). But if that was true, if no real search was conducted and no real interviews actually occurred then not only is that a problem for the basketball program, its a problem for the entire athletic department, including our AD.

 

[GoCuse08]

All we need is someone to represent Queens

Like LL Cool J? ...he represents Queens and he dated a girl raised down in Brooklyn...double bonus.

 

[Fly Rodder]

As of right now, 2017 will be the first season that SU will not have a McD AA on the roster since 09-10 ...

 

[rocklloyd]

Like LL Cool J? ...he represents Queens and he dated a girl raised down in Brooklyn...double bonus.

Ding ding. Was hoping someone would specifically call it out

 

[CousCuse]

Like LL Cool J? ...he represents Queens and he dated a girl raised down in Brooklyn...double bonus.

Raised out in Brooklyn.

 

[billsin01]

I think this is a fantastic debate, and one of the reasons why I frequent this board as often as I do. On the one side we have struggled in recent years bringing in the top 10 top 20 level recruit, or for that matter, multiple top 30 level recruits in the same class like many of the "major" programs have year in and year out. Would an assistant coach, who is a very good recruiter, be able to provide enough of a boost to help break us through to the next level? Or would we pick up more of the Gerami Grant/Billy Edilin/Lydon/Richardson's of the world who always seem to leave just one year too early (speaking from the program's perspective, not that of the player and their draft status)?

Or should our program look to pursue a different caliber of player, potentially ones who don't necessarily have the elite NBA level potential that we can develop and get solid contributions from, like a Kennedy Meeks (I understand he was also a McD's all American and highly recruited, but he's useful in this example because he lacked the ideal "NBA skill set" and contributed significantly to their program). So do we bring in an assistant who can develop the C.J. Fair, Brandon Triche, and Michael Gbinije's of the world and work on having a team with a constant core upper classmen?

On a related note/question, how does UNC keep their kids from leaving? 9 of the 15 players on this years team are either Jr's or Sr's, 11 of the 15 last year were JR's or Sr's and they are always littered with MCD types

This is the essential question, IMO, for the program. You can exist in the middle ground and, even though the past few years have been frustrating, we haven't done that bad occupying the landscape we have. I mean, last year was a final four -- ugly season, but there are a million people who questioned JB's ability to win in the postseason for a long time despite good regular seasons, so you can't really totally knock him and, well, a final four is a final four (especially since it included a win over a team in the final this year and a loss to the team that is headed to back-to-back finals). This season was a team that just didn't come together quickly enough -- there were holes and warts but ultimately if the team plays the front half of the schedule the way they played after the BC game, they probably at least comfortably get into the tournament. Obviously the wisconsin and South Carolina losses look a bit different now and maybe we still lose those and St. John's, but probably beat UConn and hopefully beat BC on the road, etc. Three years ago we were 25-0. Point being, things could be worse.

But however you classify those seasons, it's interesting to look at the run UNC is on with all their veterans. Same goes for Nova and Gonzaga (every single player who's played in at least 37 games has been on campus for at least three seasons with the exception of Collins). Oregon was a veteran team, South Carolina was led by a badass senior in Thronwell and Notice as well. Other teams who've done well with vets the past few years also include Notre Dame (Colson, Beachem, Vasturia, Farrell and Demetrius Jackson among others in previous years).

Bottom line is this: You can win with freshmen studs or really solid veterans. Not sure which is the right way to go. But the thought process behind hiring Griffin could be that you get a really solid coach and put together a solid staff and build around guys who may not be top50 for the most part. Not sure, but it could be something of a factor.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Chino Obokoh is who I was referring to. I know it's not inconsistent with what you said. I agree with a lot of what you said. The only place I would differ is that it's not revisionist history or people trying to play monday morning quarterback. There are kids that many people liked and we didn't go after hard enough and missed out on. It's not like people waited for them to have good college careers to bring it up. I'm not saying you are doing this but others do. You asked what was being talking about on the recruiting forum and I was just giving you a broad stroke brush of it. I love Jim Boeheim and Syracuse Basketball as much as anyone on here and I feel like I'm more positive than some other posters who I feel like are more critical even thought I respect their opinions (Alsac, sobecuse, etc.). I also feel like we are trending in the wrong direction and need recruiting to get a shot in the arm. Hopefully Griff with his NYC background and hard working style along with increased responsibilities for Red will generate something positive in regards to recruiting. Losing Hop is a big blow to recruiting. I don't know how you could watch the team we have put on the floor for the last 3 years and compare it to our biggest ACC rivals (Duke, UNC and UVA) and think we are trending upward. Maybe that is just me though.

I don't think I ever said we were trending upward. I just blame it on the sanctions to a great degree and also that injury which took our 7'2" center out of action for virtually all the season. People are really nasty about Chukwu's talent level and I don't think one can judge someone who was poked in the eye so early on and was wearing safety glasses. That probably very subtly throws one's shot accuracy off.

 

[GoCuse08]

Raised out in Brooklyn.

ahh...that makes more sense. Never was good a remembering lyrics of songs.

 

[MiniCuse]

Loved Griff as a player. He is one of my all time favorites.

I just hope he can recruit and coach up his players. Hoping he has some NY Rens and PSA Cardinals connections we can leverage.

This was the predictable hire and it's not s e xy. I just can't help but think going from Hop/Autry/Gmac to Autry/Griff/Gmac is a pretty big downgrade, with absolutely no disrespect to AG. Gonna have to close the 2017 cycle strong with Tucker and Ayala (?) and have a big 2018. Gotta grind though, now.

Of course it was going to be a "downgrade." Any time your main assistant coach takes a P5 head coaching opportunity, the odds are the guy filling his shoes isn't going to have an equivalent resume.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Of course it was going to be a "downgrade." Any time your main assistant coach takes a P5 head coaching opportunity, the odds are the guy filling his shoes isn't going to have an equivalent resume.

Well yeah, I guess that's all true, but the shift seems more than just a downgrade. Seems like a significant downgrade.

This is why JB has to step up his participation on the recruiting trail. We need him to be the face of our recruitments, even if it's a a bit of window dressing.

 

[tbonezone]

Of course it was going to be a "downgrade." Any time your main assistant coach takes a P5 head coaching opportunity, the odds are the guy filling his shoes isn't going to have an equivalent resume.

wrong. they all have the exact same resume. just different time frames. (at least AG walked around the block once.)
my guess is that JB being the megalomaniac he is likes coaches he can control easily and only know his way.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I think it's a lazy hire. Safe, comfortable and brings little new to the table.

What I would very much like to know is who else they looked at/interviewed? Im in the camp that they should have gone out and grabbed a well connected recruiter or and AAU head coach type because I think the program could have used a nice boost on the recruiting front and this was a perfect opportunity to take advantage of the situation. That said, I don't hate the hire. I think AG could very well be a hard working, solid XO's coach who is dedicated to the University. My biggest concern is with my original question, who else did they consider?

If the staff and administration conducted their due process and deemed AG their guy then I will feel better. But, if there were no real interviews, litte conversation and dialog on the direction and needs of the program, well then, I couldn't agree more with it being a lazy hire (If that did occur it would also bring up some questions regarding the new AD). So I am very interested to find out how extensive the process was.

All fair points and I can see where fair-minded folks can disagree. I DON'T think it was a lazy hire. I simply believe JAB doesn't hire his AC's based on some presumptive or misplaced loyalty, I think he's smarter than that. If Griffin or GMac aren't "worthy" or providing something to the program, I'll trust the HOF'er's judgement over idle speculation of his motives, especially coming from fans on a message board. JMHO

 

[OrangeDW]

Still wondering why people are saying GMac has done a poor job coaching the guards, as if it's a fact.

I mean, is it as simple as "Joseph flopped as a young player, and Howard has been bad. GMac's fault!"?? That's what it feels like.

By the same measure, does he get the credit for turning Gbinije from a backup SF into the starting PG on a final four team and an NBA draft pick?

If it's his fault Joseph was bad as a freshman, does he get credit that Ennis was so good as a freshman?

How about lottery picks Dion and MCW? Credit? Or nah?

 

[NYCSUGrad]

I notice you tend to revert to the female/male card often...I don't see anywhere in this discussion whether it mattered if a poster was male or female, yet you brought it up as you have done in other threads...

Because the few women posters here hardly ever post anymore, with the exception of one whose name is gender neutral and once in a while one of the moderators. I think it's that their posts tend to be taken less seriously just as mine often are compared to guys'. However if you look you will see where I also said a lot of the old time MALE posters have left here. I think the general incivility has made them either lurk only or, you know, have a life that doesn't involve this forum!

 

[orange79]

Because the few women posters here hardly ever post anymore, with the exception of one whose name is gender neutral and once in a while one of the moderators. I think it's that their posts tend to be taken less seriously just as mine often are compared to guys'. However if you look you will see where I also said a lot of the old time MALE posters have left here. I think the general incivility has made them either lurk only or, you know, have a life that doesn't involve this forum!

Yes, the majority of posters are male, but I can think of at least 8 female posters right off the top of my head that post regularly.