New assistant coach: Allen Griffin

[Lowtop]

Still wondering why people are saying GMac has done a poor job coaching the guards, as if it's a fact.

I mean, is it as simple as "Joseph flopped as a young player, and Howard has been bad. GMac's fault!"?? That's what it feels like.

By the same measure, does he get the credit for turning Gbinije from a backup SF into the starting PG on a final four team and an NBA draft pick?

If it's his fault Joseph was bad as a freshman, does he get credit that Ennis was so good as a freshman?

How about lottery picks Dion and MCW? Credit? Or nah?

He shouldn't get credit for Gbinje that was Autry.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Your posts are taken less seriously not because you're a female but because your takes are, politely saying, off the wall to the point where they can't be taken seriously.

I agree...and it's not a female/male thing...there are some posters that this applies to for me...I don't care if they are male or female. It's annoying when a poster brings OT stuff, such as perceived sexism on a message board, into the sports side.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Then perhaps this isn't the place for you. Why do you think you can tell posters (male or female) what they should or should not be posting about? People post about what they want to post about, when they want to post it. It's not a male/female thing.

I have been thinking the same.

However I have also been associated with the board since before Tom and Fishy helped found it. I.E. Since the AOL days. How long have you been posting here? And why do we not know the moderators names other than CTO unless maybe we live in Syracuse and go to games?

 

[MSOrange]

I agree...and it's not a female/male thing...there are some posters that this applies to for me...I don't care if they are male or female. It's annoying when a poster brings OT stuff, such as perceived s e xism on a message board, into the sports side.

Agreed. I wouldn't ever know if someone was male or female unless they constantly make it an issue. I actually just scroll down each thread and a lot of times don't even pay attention to who the poster is unless I think it's a really good or really bad point.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Agreed. I wouldn't ever know if someone was male or female unless they constantly make it an issue. I actually just scroll down each thread and a lot of times don't even pay attention to who the poster is unless I think it's a really good or really bad point.

Then you are among the good people who don't know and don't care. It's just that it doesn't apply to everyone here.

I wouldn't have my proverbial panties in a twist except I see personal friends just not posting here and I got the impression that they were feeling uncomfortable. But I made the point the same goes for old time male posters too. I would name names but that's awkward without getting their permission.

The Internet in general is more snarky and a lot is due to the political animosity since 2000. It just got ratcheted up from the start of the 2016 campaign

 

[AirForceOrange]

I admit I am partially to blame for this in this thread...but this thread has gotten off topic. This discussion needs to be moved to the OT forum. I think that is one of the main reasons some posters have gone into lurking mode...threads that should be about sports are taken over by people with political agendas...

To get back on topic...I think hiring Griff was a good move and look forward to seeing what he brings to the team. I think with his experience outside Orange World, he might be a good mentor for GMAC to learn from and hopefully improve in his job.

 

[Jasoncuse]

GMac became the assistant coach in 2012.
So from 2013 onward I would say we really only had one guard really develop during his tenure. Michael Gbinije who really was a SF that we out of necessity made a PG.

I don't count our guards who weren't NBA draft picks have developed much but I will list them to be fair.

I want GMac to succeed as he isn't going anywhere but seeing better results shouldn't be a lot to ask.

Good players: MCW, Ennis
Okay: Cooney, Battle
Misses: Joseph, Patterson
Hopefully gets better: Howard.

This isn't exactly a good job. Considering again GMac had no experience before he got an elite assistant job in 2012.
Griffin worked his butt off compared to GMac.

Griffin was a grad assistant here, went to St. Francis was an assistant there. Worked his way up to Dayton after we hired Autry after Greenberg was fired from VPI.

Griffin has worked up the ladder I am confident he can do the job.

Is there really a lot of criticism of Gmac's coaching? Or is it recruiting related issues, both his and how he's deployed, for why he's viewed poorly by some? I think it's hard to blame him for the disasters we saw in Joseph, Patterson and Howard. None of those kids have looked talented enough to be quality players at this level. Cooney improved, IMO, but never gained the consistency with his shot that we had hoped. I don't think a coach can be blamed for that.

The lack of fundamentals we constantly see with our guards is what irritates me, and I don't know if that's Gmac, JB, AA or was Hop. Kids shouldn't be leaving their feet to throw passes as often as we see here. Guards should be able to throw bounce passes. We should be able to move the ball faster and crisper. The post should be fed, even if it's just to reset the offense a bit. Struggling to finish through contact, and even without contact, is something that shouldn't happen as much with big guards or upperclassmen. I think all of that can fall at the coaches' feet.

 

[SBU72]

One major complaint about the assistants is lack of outside experience. AG brings that. And from good coaches.

 

[Alsacs]

Is there really a lot of criticism of Gmac's coaching? Or is it recruiting related issues, both his and how he's deployed, for why he's viewed poorly by some? I think it's hard to blame him for the disasters we saw in Joseph, Patterson and Howard. None of those kids have looked talented enough to be quality players at this level. Cooney improved, IMO, but never gained the consistency with his shot that we had hoped. I don't think a coach can be blamed for that.

The lack of fundamentals we constantly see with our guards is what irritates me, and I don't know if that's Gmac, JB, AA or was Hop. Kids shouldn't be leaving their feet to throw passes as often as we see here. Guards should be able to throw bounce passes. We should be able to move the ball faster and crisper. The post should be fed, even if it's just to reset the offense a bit. Struggling to finish through contact, and even without contact, is something that shouldn't happen as much with big guards or upperclassmen. I think all of that can fall at the coaches' feet.

Not sure what gets him the criticism.

My perspective for heat on GMac is that he was given the assistant job in 2012 without experience. Since getting that job I don't think his performance with the guards has been good and his recruiting has been mediocre.

JB gave him an elite job right off the bat. Griffin isn't going to get any criticism because he has worked up the ladder and has earned this job.


Play hooks and ladders

GMac went up the ladder right off the bat. As a result expectations should be higher.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Not sure what gets him the criticism.

My perspective for heat on GMac is that he was given the assistant job in 2012 without experience. Since getting that job I don't think his performance with the guards has been good and his recruiting has been mediocre.

JB gave him an elite job right off the bat. Griffin isn't going to get any criticism because he has worked up the ladder and has earned this job.


Play hooks and ladders

GMac went up the ladder right off the bat. As a result expectations should be higher.

Wow...internet history made...I think this is the first ever Hooks and Ladders argument...

 

[RF2044]

Just one quibble with this -- do we really know if Griffin is truly a low ceiling guy? Not saying he's a Murphy or a Weaver and it's hard to argue with the thought that a hired gun like that could really, really help right about now. But Griffin worked for five or six years with Miller, who was a really hot commodity this offseason and had a good run at Dayton. It feels like at a higher profile program Griffin can take some of that experience and potentially be a pretty solid asset as a coach and as a recruiter. With that said, I feel like there's a chance he's a high ceiling guy in addition to a high floor guy.

That's a fair argument. I think it has more to do with where he's coached and the level. I give Griffin a tremendous amount of credit for leaving the fold and cutting his teeth elsewhere. It proves that he has the chops to be an AC [i.e., the high floor component]. My OPINION is that if he'd been perceived as a higher ceiling guy, that he might have had opportunities at programs that were at a little higher level than St. Francis, Dayton, etc. Nothing against those schools, and nothing against Griffin.

I feel like it was a solid hire, we brought in a proven guy. I just don't know that he was someone who is going to singlehandedly shake things up on the recruiting trail. But would love for Big Game Griff to prove me wrong. Nothing would please me more.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Not sure what gets him the criticism.

My perspective for heat on GMac is that he was given the assistant job in 2012 without experience. Since getting that job I don't think his performance with the guards has been good and his recruiting has been mediocre.

JB gave him an elite job right off the bat. Griffin isn't going to get any criticism because he has worked up the ladder and has earned this job.


Play hooks and ladders

GMac went up the ladder right off the bat. As a result expectations should be higher.

I fully agree that Gmac being handed a high-end assistant's job with no experience was probably problematic. Sure, it may be working and may get even better, but others have gone the same route. Scheyer at Duke had the same route, with maybe less grad assistant experience, too.

I think the problem has indeed been what role he has been given. I just don't think he should be blamed for the lack of development of certain players.

 

[Alsacs]

I fully agree that Gmac being handed a high-end assistant's job with no experience was probably problematic. Sure, it may be working and may get even better, but others have gone the same route. Scheyer at Duke had the same route, with maybe less grad assistant experience, too.

I think the problem has indeed been what role he has been given. I just don't think he should be blamed for the lack of development of certain players.

Duke recruits for itself. Duke has been recruiting elite talent every year in the last decade no matter who their assistant coaches are and how good at recruiting they are.
That is why I don't like the comparison to Duke assistants you were all alumni as well.

 

[Alsacs]

I fully agree that Gmac being handed a high-end assistant's job with no experience was probably problematic. Sure, it may be working and may get even better, but others have gone the same route. Scheyer at Duke had the same route, with maybe less grad assistant experience, too.

I think the problem has indeed been what role he has been given. I just don't think he should be blamed for the lack of development of certain players.

If he's in charge of the guards then the guards development goes on his responsibility. And I am not saying he's been awful in development but he hasn't been good.
I think GMac has been our worst assistant coach since he came aboard. I hope he gets better because he isn't going anywhere.
The reason I grade him harder was he had no resume before getting the job.

 

[orange79]

I have been thinking the same.

However I have also been associated with the board since before Tom and Fishy helped found it. I.E. Since the AOL days. How long have you been posting here? And why do we not know the moderators names other than CTO unless maybe we live in Syracuse and go to games?

Prodigy/Compuserve (can never remember which one it was) and AOL days.

If people want you to know their names, they will tell you. :noidea:

 

[Deano]

Duke recruits for itself. Duke has been recruiting elite talent every year in the last decade no matter who their assistant coaches are and how good at recruiting they are.
That is why I don't like the comparison to Duke assistants you were all alumni as well.

Another program who isn't totally clean and gets away with it.

 

[rrlbees]

If he's in charge of the guards then the guards development goes on his responsibility. And I am not saying he's been awful in development but he hasn't been good.
I think GMac has been our worst assistant coach since he came aboard. I hope he gets better because he isn't going anywhere.
The reason I grade him harder was he had no resume before getting the job.

you ignore the list of guards I made all of whom he had a hand in coaching for some or all of their careers here.

 

[Alsacs]

you ignore the list of guards I made all of whom he had a hand in coaching for some or all of their careers here.

I didn't ignore it. I responded to your exact post go read that response.
Again GMac didn't develop Gbinije somebody responded to your post that was Autry.

You put Walters and Jardine. Sorry I said I wasn't giving him credit there when he took over when that season had started and he wasn't the guards coach during that summer.

If you ranked our assistants how would you rank their performance 1-3 between Autry, GMac, Hop.

Please actually answer this one. You are good at attacking and when asked for a non Trump opinion not answering.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Prodigy/Compuserve (can never remember which one it was) and AOL days.

If people want you to know their names, they will tell you. :noidea:

Your level of empathy for someone associated with the board for more than 20 years is noted.

I live in NYC. I know Joyce quite well. I last saw her in Maui. She and Barbara Boeheim and my friend Evie and I all walked from the team hotel to the other hotel where the banquet was held which was probably a mile away or so. And I saw her once or twice on the grounds of the hotel we stayed at after that.

I know Rick Bees but haven't seen him in probably 10 years or more in person.

I'm not familiar with anyone else. At least to my knowledge.

 

[rrlbees]

I didn't ignore it. I responded to your exact post go read that response.
Again GMac didn't develop Gbinije somebody responded to your post that was Autry.

You put Walters and Jardine. Sorry I said I wasn't giving him credit there when he took over when that season had started and he wasn't the guards coach during that summer.

If you ranked our assistants how would you rank their performance 1-3 between Autry, GMac, Hop.

Please actually answer this one. You are good at attacking and when asked for a non Trump opinion not answering.

you get awful "touchy" and I didn't "attack" you. I listed players that yes, gmac did have a hand in coaching during their careers. every one of them. as to your question I'd say hop, autry, gmac. and that's their standing on the asst totem pole which isn't a knock on any of them.

and its not unusual for someone who has been a GA for a couple years to become a 3rd asst. and even when gmac took over for fine in novemeber '11, jb named him as the interim coach (you're not going to fine an asst in November). jb must have liked what he saw and kept him on.

 

[Alsacs]

you get awful "touchy" and I didn't "attack" you. I listed players that yes, gmac did have a hand in coaching during their careers. every one of them. as to your question I'd say hop, autry, gmac. and that's their standing on the asst totem pole which isn't a knock on any of them.

and its not unusual for someone who has been a GA for a couple years to become a 3rd asst. and even when gmac took over for fine in novemeber '11, jb named him as the interim coach (you're not going to fine an asst in November). jb must have liked what he saw and kept him on.

Fair enough. I respect you as you and I can joust. I respect different opinions I know you can take it and don't name call.
We disagree on GMac.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Gmac is very fortunate he is learning on the job. Lets hope he improves.

Mike Hopkins was named an assistant at SU and was never even a GA. Hubert Davis assistant coach at UNC, Baker Dunleavy associate head coach at Nova, Greg Paulus at Ohio St, Jon Scheyer & Nate James from Duke etc - read when they graduated, their prior experience . I think you'd be surprised regarding their prior coaching experience.

 

[Cusesky8214]

So here it is Tuesday and we still haven't been told that this hire is official have we? What is the deal??

 

[two3zone]

So Mike Hopkins has a better assistant coach than we do. Interesting... Great hire by Hop.

 

[MSOrange]

So Mike Hopkins has a better assistant coach than we do. Interesting... Great hire by Hop.

I just saw he hired Dave Rice, who I assume you are referring to. That is a pretty solid hire. He'll have some nice connections out west I would think.