Next year's frontcourt

[BuffOrange]

Keita showed a big jump in tourney play but still might get redshirted next year if NN is on board. Would be a waste of a year at maybe 5-10 mpg for BMK.

Have seen a few people mention this. Was I imagining things or did anyone else think he give us some good minutes in the beginning of last year? I thought it was too coincidental that he became a liability after he injured his hand or whatever last year. Really I was more surprised about his poor play early this year than I was by his emergence in the tournament.
I do agree he might as well be redshirted regardless if we get Noel.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Have seen a few people mention this. Was I imagining things or did anyone else think he give us some good minutes in the beginning of last year? I thought it was too coincidental that he became a liability after he injured his hand or whatever last year. Really I was more surprised about his poor play early this year than I was by his emergence in the tournament.
I do agree he might as well be redshirted regardless if we get Noel.

Hands were the issue with BMK. Couldn't secure rebounds and couldn't catch well in the post. In the tourney he showed more in both those categories vs the rest of the season. Other issue is he is a bit light still. 6'11 215lbs got him abused by some bigger 5s. He's quick and agile but another 10-15lbs of muscle could go along way combating those stiff arm clearouts he was victim to in the post on rebounds this year.

DC2 and Rak are both heavier at the 5, NN is the same size which is why I would project him at the 4 vs @ the 5. If we're playing in the ACC next year though, brute strength becomes less of an issue vs the Big East.

 

[reedny]

One thing that will be interesting about the Noel situation, if he decides to play here, is figuring out where he would play. It seems like most of the board believes that he will play the 4 next year, with the debate being DC2 vs Rak at the 5.

My issue with that is we would be taking a potentially Anthony Davis-like shot blocker and moving him farther away from the basket. The two things that seem to work best in the zone are big guards and a shot-blocker at the 5. So, if we do get Noel, I'd want him at the 5.

I'm sure that there are a million things that I am missing here, but that's jut my thoughts.

I don't have a crystal ball either (or a flawless understanding of the game), but... that said, I cannot imagine NN coming here and NOT starting and being a dominant factor on the glass at PF. He's a 6'10 shot-blocking phenom. Yes, Rak was touted coming in ... but he's on a long development curve and is not the eraser we need on the glass. I think NN would be.

If NN commits, moving him "off the ball" is exactly what JB will do -- this frees him up to block shots and get rebounds. Imagine this frontline in the OSU game -- DC2 would body up Sully and keep him away from the basket (neither Keita nor Rak could do this) and that space would enable NN to either erase his shot or r/b the miss.

This is why NN is listed at the nation's number 1 recruit and has often been described as one of the brightest 'off-the-ball' shotblocking prospects in years.

 

[CaliCuse]

I

When is the last time we were not sure who any of the starters would be? I'm guessing Fair starts, but can't even say that 100%.

think that is very true and probable. Unless James comes back looking very different in style and consistency.. If CJ comes back with a consistent outside shot its a lock down for him. James isn't a creator on the court as much as CJ

 

[SWC75]

Triche, MCW and Cooney are the guards and I feel they will be another great backcourt.

Fair, Southerland and Grant will all be small fowards but they are all 3 1/2's- guys who could play in tandem with eachother. If Southerland is ready for a big role on the team, he and Fair could be a dynamic combinaiton at forward- perhaps better than Fair and Joseph, because Southerland is physically stronger than Kris and has a better jump shot. It's really just mentle with him- if he becomes a consistently confident player, watch out.

Christmas, Keita, Coleman and Noel are all 5's. The quesiton is, who would be best from the power forward postion. If none of them can play that, we will have four centers and Fair and Southerland will be the forwards, not the ideal way to take advantage of the available talent. In highlight films I see Noel hadnlign the ball almsot like a guard and scoring from the side. You can block shots from the forward positon, (wee Hakim Warirck and Wes Johnson) and he's probably be a 4 in the NBA, so I would think he would be the power forward. Coleman could be a Rick Jackson type of power forward but he would have trouble guarding the perimeter. I wouldn't under-estimate Christmas who was also a top recurit and has a year in the program under his belt. He's clearly more comfortable as a 5 but could be mobile enough to cover the perimeter if he could be converted to a power forward. Ketia, who seems purely a 5 impressed in the tournament but if we have Noel, Coleman and Christmas, it might be better to redshirt him, build him up physically and have him available when Noel and/or Coleman go pro early. Of course going pro early could be a reason to start Noel and coleman imemdiately.

If we get Noel, I think he starts at the 4, Christmas and Coleman at the 5 with Keita redshirting, Fair and Southerland at forward and both of them when Noel isn't in. MCW and Triche will start in the backcourt but Cooney will be the "6th man, a guy who comes in for instant offense, even though his game will be very different from Waiters. If we don't get Noel, I can see Coleman as the power forward and Christmas at center, backed up by Keita.

I think we'll again be one of the top teams in the country, even if we don't get Noel. We'll be the best if we do.

 

[DallasCuse]

Do people really think Rak will start at the 4 again? He's not quick enough IMO to be the 4. I think Rak/DC split at the 5 with Noel at the 4.

The only way Rak plays the 4 next year is if Noel isn't here; and that's simply because Fair/Southerland won't play 35mpg each at the 3/4.

Rak is greased lightning compared to Ricky at the 4 his freshman year, and he turned out pretty fair. He'll be far more prepared next year at the 4.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Based on HS accolades though Rak and NN look like similar prospects in their given classes.

I don't think this is accurate at all.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

One thing that will be interesting about the Noel situation, if he decides to play here, is figuring out where he would play. It seems like most of the board believes that he will play the 4 next year, with the debate being DC2 vs Rak at the 5.

My issue with that is we would be taking a potentially Anthony Davis-like shot blocker and moving him farther away from the basket. The two things that seem to work best in the zone are big guards and a shot-blocker at the 5. So, if we do get Noel, I'd want him at the 5.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Noel's as obvious a college 5 as anyone.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not sure why (if we land Noel) that he would immediately start over Rak. Noel is a great talent, highly rated, and a really good shot blocker coming out of HS... which is exactly what Rak was as well except he'll have a year in the system w/ some PT and an offseason to get a bit stronger.

Noel is taller and longer and is considered by many to be the best shot blocker of the last 10 years - maybe even better than Anthony Davis. That's why.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, I don't get it either. Noel's as obvious a college 5 as anyone.

Eh, if he only weighs 215, as I've seen on some other sites, he could be devastating as a corner man at the bottom of the zone. Guys could outweigh him by 50 pounds in the low post. That ain't gonna fly.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I don't think this is accurate at all.

I'd link the ex-gf site but obviously can't. Rak was 5* #2 Center last year, NN is 5* #1 Center this year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'd link the ex-gf site but obviously can't. Rak was 5* #2 Center last year, NN is 5* #1 Center this year.

I can see why you might think that makes them similar prospects. Noel is considered the best big man since Oden.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Noel is taller and longer and is considered by many to be the best shot blocker of the last 10 years - maybe even better than Anthony Davis. That's why.

NN 6'11 1/2 201 lbs 7'3 wingspan
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nerlens-Noel-6455/

RC 6'9 226 7'3 wingspan
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rakeem-Christmas-5722/

DC2 6'9 290 7'2 wingspan
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DaJuan-Coleman-5771/

Would be great to see them playing together in the same front court

​

 

[ImperialOrange]

I can see why you might think that makes them similar prospects. Noel is considered the best big man since Oden.

Oden was a man amongst boys.

Noel is currently built like the next John Henson. Depends what he looks like when he suits up on whatever campus he chooses.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Oden was a man amongst boys.

Noel is currently built like the next John Henson. Depends what he looks like when he suits up on whatever campus he chooses.

So the comparison isn't valid because you don't like it? It's not me that made the comparison, I've seen it a few places.

Look, Rak was considered a (really good) consolation prize for not landing Anthony Davis. Noel makes whatever team he goes to an immediate Final Four contender, and they automatically have the #1 recruiting class.

 

[ImperialOrange]

So the comparison isn't valid because you don't like it? It's not me that made the comparison, I've seen it a few places.

Hey I'm all for landing him, suppose I'm just not expecting a 20/10 avg. Hope I'm wrong FWIW. It's hard for me to compare a 240lb C with a 205lb C/F but I'm noone in particular. Oden was 18 in a 28 year olds body whereas NN is 17 and looks 17. If he comes in at 220-225, with low post moves then all bets are off.

 

[heresjohnny88]

Um, anyone comparing Rak to Noel is insane. Rak was a VERY good recruit, and he'll absolutely be an impact player for us in the coming (hopefully 3) years.

Noel is a once-in-a-decade type recruit. One of the best defensive prospects EVER. We get him, we are Top 5 (maybe Top 3) and a title contender. Without him, while the FF is attainable, I'd put the Sweet 16 / Elite 8 as more of a goal.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Hey I'm all for landing him, suppose I'm just not expecting a 20/10 avg.

We weren't debating a statistical projection. We were debating whether Rak and Noel are really considered similarly coming out of highschool. Noel is by far the more heralded player.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Rak was a VERY good recruit, and he'll absolutely be an impact player for us in the coming (hopefully 3) years.

Noel is a once-in-a-decade type recruit. One of the best defensive prospects EVER. We get him, we are Top 5 (maybe Top 3) and a title contender. Without him, while the FF is attainable, I'd put the Sweet 16 / Elite 8 as more of a goal.

Exactly.

 

[rrlbees]

we need Triche to be more aggressive

Didn't watch the last 1/2 of the season or the post season? Went to the basket as much as anyone.

 

[ImperialOrange]

We weren't debating a statistical projection. We were debating whether Rak and Noel are really considered similarly coming out of highschool. Noel is by far the more heralded player.

Started there and you stated a much more informed view than I had. I'm not debating I'm just conversing for the sake of knowledge gained.

I was moving on to the "next Oden" projection which would be great but also sets the bar at 16 pts 10 boards 3 blocks per game. You've obviously seen alot more of NN play than I so where would you put his statistical projection?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Started there and you stated a much more informed view than I had. I'm not debating I'm just conversing for the sake of knowledge gained.

I was moving on to the "next Oden" projection which would be great but also sets the bar at 16 pts 10 boards 3 blocks per game. You've obviously seen alot more of NN play than I so where would you put his statistical projection?

I think anchoring the zone he would average more than 3 blocks a game. That sounds crazy, but I really think he is that much of a difference maker as a shotblocker. Instincts, speed, leaping ability - he's built to swat shots. If he goes elsewhere I still think 3 is a reasonable number.

Rebounding is hard to project. It's difficult to average ten on a season in our scheme. I think he could do it, but to be safe I'd say 9, +/- .5. He's probably a better rebounder for Kentucky than us.

The ppg is interesting, because I think that will have more to do with the balance of the team he's on than it will be a statement of his offensive ability. I think on our team he's around 12 a game, maybe room for a little more depending on how the ball gets spread around, but if a lot of guys leave Kentucky he might be good for 16+ there. He's not an offensive juggernaut by any means, but he can probably get 6 to 8 points a game just on hustle.

I don't think the numbers are going to tell the story with Noel, much like they didn't with Fab. He will immediately make the defense terrifying for whoever he plays for.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Some people seem to forget that Noel is/was the #1 recruit in TWO draft classes. He's legit talent.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I think anchoring the zone he would average more than 3 blocks a game. That sounds crazy, but I really think he is that much of a difference maker as a shotblocker. Instincts, speed, leaping ability - he's built to swat shots. If he goes elsewhere I still think 3 is a reasonable number.

Rebounding is hard to project. It's difficult to average ten on a season in our scheme. I think he could do it, but to be safe I'd say 9, +/- .5. He's probably a better rebounder for Kentucky than us.

The ppg is interesting, because I think that will have more to do with the balance of the team he's on than it will be a statement of his offensive ability. I think on our team he's around 12 a game, maybe room for a little more depending on how the ball gets spread around, but if a lot of guys leave Kentucky he might be good for 16+ there. He's not an offensive juggernaut by any means, but he can probably get 6 to 8 points a game just on hustle.

I don't think the numbers are going to tell the story with Noel, much like they didn't with Fab. He will immediately make the defense terrifying for whoever he plays for.

You think he could touch Anthony Davis' 4.6 BPG number? Do you think he's better suited at the 5 in the zone or swatting shots via help defence ala Wes Johnson?

 

[hoopsupstate]

JB has stated many times that he prefers freshmen to play only one position. It's too complicated to try to learn two different positions in the zone. That's why he waited so long to move Rak to the center spot. If Noel comes, we will know very quickly where he plans on playing Coleman and Noel. We already know that Rak can play the 4 or 5. Look for Rak at the 4 and Coleman and Noel playing the five. If we played man to man than any combination is possible. Maybe JB shocks us next year with some man defense.