NFL Thread - 2018

[OrangeDW]

The Rams took Gurley 10th, paid him big money and I'd say that is working out ok.

They’ve already said they see him as a potential hall of famer and that’s what they’re looking for at pick 2.

Decent QB’s aren’t that hard to find. Most teams have one. They can pick one next year. Or sign one. Heck, maybe they picked one in round 4? We’ll see.

 

[Melancer46]

They’ve already said they see him as a potential hall of famer and that’s what they’re looking for at pick 2.

Decent QB’s aren’t that hard to find. Most teams have one. They can pick one next year. Or sign one. Heck, maybe they picked one in round 4? We’ll see.

Decent RBs are far easier to find.

 

[OrangeDW]

Decent RBs are far easier to find.

Superstars aren’t though. They took the sure thing superstar RB, and presumably didn’t care for what was out there QB wise.

Why take a QB if they didn’t like the choices? They suck this year too...they can draft one this year if needed? What’s the difference? Is their a Saquon in this years draft(at any position?)

I don’t want to overhype him 6 games into his career but I don’t see a weakness, and some of the plays he makes are just unbelievable.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Decent RBs are far easier to find.

If you're of the opinion the guys after Baker were good I get it, but I thought after him this years crop was nothing but a lot of hype.

Allen looked inaccurate in college (with below average talent around him) and still is.

Darnold was turnover prone in college and still is.

Now they have a lot of time to improve, but unless your 100 percent certain the guy is a sure thing I get the pick.

GM's get fired for picking the wrong guy so I understand the thinking there.

 

[NateW]

the hope in drafting him is that it’ll eventually pay off. Nobody expected him to be good right now.

Exactly, so what’s the problem?

Let the kid play some games before shoveling dirt on him.

All these analytics nerds just wanna be right about their H0T Takes from the draft so they produce lowlight only articles to drive their agenda. And people who don’t watch entire games take it as gospel. It’s a joke to me. It’s like watching CNN or Fox News and having an agenda funneled down your throat.

The objective analysis is that he has struggled to identify pre snap reads regularly and that his footwork under duress needs improvement. However he shows moxy in the pocket, can zip the ball anywhere on the field, elite mobility already. His lack of accuracy is a myth - in clean pockets he typically drops dimes. His struggles are all things that are coachable. Especially the pre snap reads. It takes time, it takes experience, and it takes hard work. The kid is going to put in the work and so is his head coach.

He has not one good receiver. KB has proven himself to be no better than a WR4 with an effort issues. And the line is basically in shambles aside from Dawkins. I’m not sure any rookie QB had ever had a worse situation and yet he’s 2-2 with a 4th quarter game winning drive and wins against a 2-2-1 SB contender on the road and at home against a 3-2 team that’s beaten the Eagles and the Jags. I’ll take it at this point.

Let. The. Kid. Play.

 

[NateW]

As are the ones about the Giants/Barkley.

It’s way early but all this “the Giants should’ve picked a QB”...well, not if they determined that none of the available QBs are all that great. And none of them have exactly looked like can’t misses so far.

I’d rather have a sure thing superstar RB than an average QB if that’s the decision.

I guess the question is... who’s the QB they can take in 2019? There were just so many solid QBs in 2018. None of them rock solid guarantees, but all high level prospects. People don’t see it that way for 2019.

 

[Trueblue25]

I guess the question is... who’s the QB they can take in 2019? There were just so many solid QBs in 2018. None of them rock solid guarantees, but all high level prospects. People don’t see it that way for 2019.

2020 will be better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I guess the question is... who’s the QB they can take in 2019? There were just so many solid QBs in 2018. None of them rock solid guarantees, but all high level prospects. People don’t see it that way for 2019.

They could draft a lineman and sign Bridgewater or Nick Foles for a year.

 

[NateW]

They could draft a lineman and sign Bridgewater or Nick Foles for a year.

Bridgewater would be a good move.

I’d stay away from Foles.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I would argue that paying a risky QB prospect relative pennies is still much better than paying a rookie RB like he's already established as a top 5 back. Unless Saquon is like the best RB in the NFL, he'll be overpaid on his rookie contract. If Allen is even an adequate backup QB, he'll be properly paid; anything better than that and he's a bargain.

hes already the best RB in the league

 

[Melancer46]

Superstars aren’t though. They took the sure thing superstar RB, and presumably didn’t care for what was out there QB wise.

Why take a QB if they didn’t like the choices? They suck this year too...they can draft one this year if needed? What’s the difference? Is their a Saquon in this years draft(at any position?)

I don’t want to overhype him 6 games into his career but I don’t see a weakness, and some of the plays he makes are just unbelievable.

To be clear, I'm not even arguing that the Giants should have drafted a QB. I'm just arguing that they should not have drafted a RB. Saquon was not a sure thing, and even if he turns into a superstar, you're still paying him on his rookie contract what he stands to make as a superstar, so there's no real added value.

Let's say for example that Saquon had a 50% chance of being a superstar RB, a 40% chance of being an above average starting RB, and a 10% chance of being worse than that. In this case, you have a 50% chance of overpaying him on his rookie contract and a 50% chance of paying him what he's actually valued at.

Now let's take a QB. Let's say the QB has a 10% chance of being a superstar, a 20% chance of being an above average starter, a 40% chance of being a below average starter, 10% chance of being an adequate backup, and a 10% chance of being out of the league entirely. Because of the way rookie contracts are structured, you have a 10% chance of overpaying the QB, a 10% chance of paying him his actual value, and an 80% chance of getting a bargain.

The same is true for basically every position besides RBs; not to the same extent that it is for QBs, but literally any position besides RB, K, and P makes sense in terms of value.

Point being, if the Giants didn't like any of the QBs, that's fine. There's still no scenario where it makes sense to draft a RB at 2 anymore. Finding good players on cheap contracts is probably the easiest way to win in the NFL and with the rookie salary system, the NFL draft is the easiest way to find good players on cheap contracts and the Giants just forfeited a golden opportunity for that.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Superstars aren’t though. They took the sure thing superstar RB, and presumably didn’t care for what was out there QB wise.

Why take a QB if they didn’t like the choices? They suck this year too...they can draft one this year if needed? What’s the difference? Is their a Saquon in this years draft(at any position?)

I don’t want to overhype him 6 games into his career but I don’t see a weakness, and some of the plays he makes are just unbelievable.

You are exactly right. Giants took a generational talent at RB. There will not be a player in this years or next years draft that is good at his position as SQ is at his. They passed on several potential "franchise" qb's to do it...yet they weren't going any year no matter who they drafted. Every year the QB crop gets seriously over hyped because, frankly, the talking heads need something to talk about between the superbowl and the draft..so suddenly every potential first round QB suddenly elevates to "potential franchise" level.

Barkley can win games himself...like a top QB...how many non QB's can you say that about? It is not that difficult to find a middle of the road stop gap QB while you draft your future franchise QB. Look what Minnesota and Philly did last year. Minny makes it to the conference final with Keenum at QB and Philly wins the entire thing with freaking Foles...

 

[STEVEHOLT]

To be clear, I'm not even arguing that the Giants should have drafted a QB. I'm just arguing that they should not have drafted a RB. Saquon was not a sure thing, and even if he turns into a superstar, you're still paying him on his rookie contract what he stands to make as a superstar, so there's no real added value.

Let's say for example that Saquon had a 50% chance of being a superstar RB, a 40% chance of being an above average starting RB, and a 10% chance of being worse than that. In this case, you have a 50% chance of overpaying him on his rookie contract and a 50% chance of paying him what he's actually valued at.

Now let's take a QB. Let's say the QB has a 10% chance of being a superstar, a 20% chance of being an above average starter, a 40% chance of being a below average starter, 10% chance of being an adequate backup, and a 10% chance of being out of the league entirely. Because of the way rookie contracts are structured, you have a 10% chance of overpaying the QB, a 10% chance of paying him his actual value, and an 80% chance of getting a bargain.

The same is true for basically every position besides RBs; not to the same extent that it is for QBs, but literally any position besides RB, K, and P makes sense in terms of value.

Point being, if the Giants didn't like any of the QBs, that's fine. There's still no scenario where it makes sense to draft a RB at 2 anymore. Finding good players on cheap contracts is probably the easiest way to win in the NFL and with the rookie salary system, the NFL draft is the easiest way to find good players on cheap contracts and the Giants just forfeited a golden opportunity for that.

here's where your analysis falls apart. Team's arent given the superbowl trophy based on most efficient allocation of resources , just like baseball teams dont win world series based on Victories per total payroll.

sure you're not going to get the "added value" out of a high paid RB relative to a QB, but in rare instances when the talent level is THAT high, you have to "overpay" for the RB. Adrain Peterson in his prime is a good example. Cardinals past on him and drafted some stiff LT...and likely would have won the superbowl had they drafted Peterson..

 

[Cusefan0307]

Someone wrote an article that said the best way to win is to find a good QB really cheap(think Russell Wilson) and pay everyone else. The Rams are basically doing that with Goff to a lesser extent.

Now the key is finding someone good late.

 

[OrangeDW]

We all remember the high pick QB busts, and we all remember the stars that weren’t even first rounders(Brady, Brees, Wilson). I remember a lot of “the Giants haven’t had a pick this high in a long time, you only get so many chances to pick this high and get a franchise QB!” talk.

Is that your only shot to get a franchise QB? Do you need a “franchise QB”? What if you pick a QB that’s average at 2? Wouldn’t you be better off signing an average free agent? A former starter coming off an injury? Trade for a talented younger guy that’s stuck behind a superstar?

If we’re in the “QB era” where there’s so many good QB’s, do you have to pretend that picking one at number 2 is the only route?

 

[KaiserUEO]

I’ve listened to a lot of radio here today, and the voice off the fan has spoken...

The offensive line was an absolute joke and defense quit...are 1 and 1A.

2) is Barkley

3) is Eli’s struggles.

4) OBJ is an arsehole

Most say the reason for 3 is because of 1 and 4.

 

[OrangeDW]

I’ve listened to a lot of radio here today, and the voice off the fan has spoken...

The offensive line was an absolute joke and defense quit...are 1 and 1A.

2) is Barkley

3) is Eli’s struggles.

4) OBJ is an arsehole

Most say the reason for 3 is because of 1 and 4.

OBJ is a drama queen but even with a sputtering offense he’s been very productive in terms of catches and yardage. I don’t see how his personality would have any effect on Eli’s play?

The punt return disaster against Carolina was a killer, but beyond that he’s played well.

 

[KaiserUEO]

OBJ is a drama queen but even with a sputtering offense he’s been very productive in terms of catches and yardage. I don’t see how his personality would have any effect on Eli’s play?

The punt return disaster against Carolina was a killer, but beyond that he’s played well.

His sideline antics, leaving before the half and glaring inability to catch the ball without separation are his arseholeable traits. That stupid interview didn’t help.

 

[Cowtown]

His sideline antics, leaving before the half and glaring inability to catch the ball without separation are his arseholeable traits. That stupid interview didn’t help.

He's heading toward becoming another TO. "Body by Fisher" but mind by Tinker Toy.

 

[Trueblue25]

The Brocketman is in and im officially out on Tannehill.

 

[Cowtown]

The Brocketman is in and im officially out on Tannehill.

Tannehill is such an enigma. He's Joe Montana one week, Hannah Montana the next. He's maddening that way. And how Osweiler still has an NFL job is beyond me.

 

[Trueblue25]

Tannehill is such an enigma. He's Joe Montana one week, Hannah Montana the next. He's maddening that way. And how Osweiler still has an NFL job is beyond me.

Same bs, different year. I can hardly do this anymore.

 

[Melancer46]

I've thought this for a long time but the Bills game just reminded me of it...I think it's stupid that basically any penalty on the defense results in a 1st down while any penalty on the offense simply resets the down. If the offense needs 5 yards and the defense is called for a 10 yard penalty, then it should be a first down, but otherwise, offense should just get the yards and re-do the down like every other penalty. It's so dumb that you can have a 3rd and 20 and have the defense get called for a ticky-tack 5 yard penalty and the offense gets a 1st down out of it.

 

[Briancuse]

Wow the colts are really bad.

 

[Cowtown]

Good grief, Nantz and Romo are insufferable. I think I'm going to mute the sound and put on some Zeppelin or some Hendrix.