NFL Thread - 2020

[chugg21]

He wasn’t any better before Patricia. At some point you are what your track record says you are. He’s a less a holish Jay Cutler.

Lions defensive pts allowed rankings by year in his career. 32, 19, 23, 27, 15, 3, 23, 13 21, 16, 26, 32. So he played with a good defense once and they went 11-5. Getting to the playoffs 3 times with those types of defenses is to be expected. Now add in that the last RB that he had to work with that went over 700 yards was Joique Bell in 2014 and you should be able to figure out why there were numerous teams trying to deal for him.

 

[chugg21]

He might be able to have a Vinny Testaverde with the Jets type of season but I don’t think he is much better than Goff.

As I said I thjnk McVay is a control freak and that may have stunted Goff’s growth.

Goff isn’t great but I would take him over Wentz.

I disagree with every aspect of that post. Goff has been coddled more than any QB in NFL history. Fairly common knowledge that McVay is making the pre-snap adjustments for him before the headsets get cut off. I think Goff is going to be extremely terrible outside of the cocoon that was built for him there. Wentz is a disaster currently but at least we know there is a much higher ceiling there despite no idea if he ever gets back near it. Stafford having a real offensive coach, top 10 run offense, top 10 wr combo and a top 5 defense is going to be pretty fun to watch. I grew up a Lions fan because of Barry Sanders and still have root for them against anyone but the Bills and I'm really excited to see what he can do away from a garbage franchise.

 

[bpo57]

Philly would have to eat 59 million in dead momey next year to trade Wentz.

They can’t do that unless they want to tank fully next year.
The dead money goes to down to 25 million after the 2021 season.

Wentz is going to be in Philadelphia next year.

I'm not sure where u get your #s but the Eagles would not have to take a dead money hit of $59 million if they trade Wentz. More like $34 million. Still a very big #. Read below for all of the various options that the Eagles have.

Let's all get on the same page regarding the Eagles' options with Carson Wentz

Carson Wentz rumors have begun to swirl locally and nationally, so we may as well get on the same page in regard to the nuts and bolts of his contract, and the options that the Eagles will have with him during the 2021 offseason.

www.phillyvoice.com

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lions defensive pts allowed rankings by year in his career. 32, 19, 23, 27, 15, 3, 23, 13 21, 16, 26, 32. So he played with a good defense once and they went 11-5. Getting to the playoffs 3 times with those types of defenses is to be expected. Now add in that the last RB that he had to work with that went over 700 yards was Joique Bell in 2014 and you should be able to figure out why there were numerous teams trying to deal for him.

Yeah because everyone except 8-10 teams aren’t happy with their current QB situation. I get trying to change things up, but that’s a good trade for Detroit trying to rebuild. Any stat you look at shows him to slightly above average. I’m not saying he’s terrible, but he’s never been a difference maker and the only starter he is better than who made the final 8 is Goff. McVay worked wonders with Goff I get that, but this isn’t the NBA where first round picks 15-30 don’t have a ton of value.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm not sure where u get your #s but the Eagles would not have to take a dead money hit of $59 million if they trade Wentz. More like $34 million. Still a very big #. Read below for all of the various options that the Eagles have.

Let's all get on the same page regarding the Eagles' options with Carson Wentz

Carson Wentz rumors have begun to swirl locally and nationally, so we may as well get on the same page in regard to the nuts and bolts of his contract, and the options that the Eagles will have with him during the 2021 offseason.

www.phillyvoice.com

I go by this.
It says 59 million if they move on from Wentz.

 

[Alsacs]

I disagree with every aspect of that post. Goff has been coddled more than any QB in NFL history. Fairly common knowledge that McVay is making the pre-snap adjustments for him before the headsets get cut off. I think Goff is going to be extremely terrible outside of the cocoon that was built for him there. Wentz is a disaster currently but at least we know there is a much higher ceiling there despite no idea if he ever gets back near it. Stafford having a real offensive coach, top 10 run offense, top 10 wr combo and a top 5 defense is going to be pretty fun to watch. I grew up a Lions fan because of Barry Sanders and still have root for them against anyone but the Bills and I'm really excited to see what he can do away from a garbage franchise.

Goff rookie year he had Jeff Fisher and then he got the control freak that is Sean McVay.
I want to see Goff with Anthony Lynn.
I don’t think he is a top 10 QB but I don’t see how much different than Matthew Stafford he is.

We will see with McVay though.

 

[bpo57]

View attachment 195729

I go by this.
It says 59 million if they move on from Wentz.

Did u read my link? It lays out in very simple fashion. Read it and you will see you are wrong.
$34 mil if they trade Wentz not $59 mil. That figure is crazy talk.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think this trade works both ways. As a Lions fan I would be thrilled. But in terms of LA, the Rams are one of the most talented teams in the league. Ready to win. Stafford will sling it there. Great haul for detroit too with the picks for the rebuild, but also a QB who has proven capable.

We can nitpick it to death but it makes sense to me.

 

[Alsacs]

Did u read my link? It lays out in very simple fashion. Read it and you will see you are wrong.
$34 mil if they trade Wentz not $59 mil. That figure is crazy talk.

The Eagles aren’t moving on from Wentz this offseason after firing Pederson but i see where the 25 million comes from.

 

[bpo57]

The Eagles aren’t moving on from Wentz this offseason after firing Pederson but i see where the 25 million comes from.

Yeah it's unlikely and a big part of the reason is they know Hurts is not the long term answer.

 

[Alsacs]

I think this trade works both ways. As a Lions fan I would be thrilled. But in terms of LA, the Rams are one of the most talented teams in the league. Ready to win. Stafford will sling it there. Great haul for detroit too with turn picks for the rebuild, but also a QB who has proven capable.

We can nitpick it to death but it makes sense to me.

CuseRunner “Is Matt Stafford even better than John Wolford? I’m just asking the question?”

 

[chugg21]

Yeah because everyone except 8-10 teams aren’t happy with their current QB situation. I get trying to change things up, but that’s a good trade for Detroit trying to rebuild. Any stat you look at shows him to slightly above average. I’m not saying he’s terrible, but he’s never been a difference maker and the only starter he is better than who made the final 8 is Goff. McVay worked wonders with Goff I get that, but this isn’t the NBA where first round picks 15-30 don’t have a ton of value.

It's kind of odd how similar Watson and Stafford are. They've each had a top 5 defense to help them once in their career and both went 11-5 with it. They've also each had a bottom 5 defense twice and neither won more than 5 games in any of those 4 seasons. Watson had a 1000 yard back once(Hyde,1070), Stafford had a 1000 yard back once(Bush,1006). Both played with the best WR on the planet at the time for a bit.

There's people out there that think if Watson goes to the Jets that they'll be a playoff team. That makes 0 sense when he'd be going to a team with a roster as bad or worse than the one he just went 4-12 with in Houston. I don't know how many guys are capable of carrying a team with an absolute horrible defense but there aren't many if any at all. I think both of these guys can make an average team good and a good team really good and that's valuable since there's only about a dozen of those guys on earth.

With all that said, obviously Watson is more valuable because of age, but there are a lot more similarities than I think folks realize and neither of them is good enough to overcome a terrible roster around them.

 

[Melancer46]

Goff is a talented passer but he’s shown at this point that if a play doesn’t go exactly as he expects, he’s lost. He’s a project QB like 5+ years into his career. The Rams should have traded Goff when he was on his rookie deal. They screwed up a great situation there and have fortunately rebounded and remain a super bowl contender. Stafford is a top 10-15 QB and that was while dealing with one of the worst overall teams around him.

 

[chugg21]

I'm kind of interested in how the Lions attack this offseason. Their 3 starting WRs are all free agents. Golladay is awesome but constantly hurt. They can try to tag and trade him or re-sign him. It becomes interesting if they decide to re-sign him and then take Smith or Chase at #7. That's a high-level WR combo, then have Hockenson who appears to be on his way to a pro bowl level TE, have Swift at RB who quietly had 10 TDs as a rookie and is explosive. That could be an interesting offense.

2nd scenario is that Golladay is tagged and traded for a pick and then they go with BPA at 7 and take Parsons or Surtain as a defensive piece. In that scenario Goff has nothing around him and they are a dumpster fire on both sides of the ball and go 3-13 and have a top 3 pick next year along with the Rams 1st and are staring at Sam Howell or Kedon Slovis as the next franchise guy.

 

[chugg21]

He wasn’t any better before Patricia. At some point you are what your track record says you are. He’s a less a holish Jay Cutler.

Had to go look up Cutler's career just to see if this was close. Realized Cutler threw for 4000 yards once in 8 full seasons. Stafford has done it 8 out of 9. Cutler would also need to throw 82 more TDs and negative 14 interceptions lol. Stafford is significantly closer to Dan Marino than Jay Cutler.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm kind of interested in how the Lions attack this offseason. Their 3 starting WRs are all free agents. Golladay is awesome but constantly hurt. They can try to tag and trade him or re-sign him. It becomes interesting if they decide to re-sign him and then take Smith or Chase at #7. That's a high-level WR combo, then have Hockenson who appears to be on his way to a pro bowl level TE, have Swift at RB who quietly had 10 TDs as a rookie and is explosive. That could be an interesting offense.

2nd scenario is that Golladay is tagged and traded for a pick and then they go with BPA at 7 and take Parsons or Surtain as a defensive piece. In that scenario Goff has nothing around him and they are a dumpster fire on both sides of the ball and go 3-13 and have a top 3 pick next year along with the Rams 1st and are staring at Sam Howell or Kedon Slovis as the next franchise guy.

I would definitely opt for the 2nd scenario if it were me but most NFL franchises seem to choose the first.

 

[chugg21]

View attachment 195729

I go by this.
It says 59 million if they move on from Wentz.

The mechanisms change if it's trade vs release. New team takes on bonuses that haven't been paid out yet.

 

[chugg21]

I would definitely opt for the 2nd scenario if it were me but most NFL franchises seem to choose the first.

The closest comparable trade that I could come up with last night wasn't even in the NFL it was the Russell for Wiggins and a future 1st deal.

 

[samspann1]

 

[chugg21]

Little Trump like hands on a big dude.

 

[Alsacs]

The closest comparable trade that I could come up with last night wasn't even in the NFL it was the Russell for Wiggins and a future 1st deal.

The Browns-Texans Brock Osweiler trade.
The Browns took Osweiler’s terrible contract for a Houston second round pick.

LA traded 1st and 3rd for Stafford and LA gave an extra first round pick to get off Goff’s contract.


The NFL doesn’t like teams trading picks for cap space but it’s been done twice now.

 

[chugg21]

The Browns-Texans Brock Osweiler trade.
The Browns took Osweiler’s terrible contract for a Houston second round pick.

LA traded 1st and 3rd for Stafford and LA gave an extra first round pick to get off Goff’s contract.


The NFL doesn’t like teams trading picks for cap space but it’s been done twice now.

That one isn't really comparable because it was a bum player for a future pick and he was immediately cut. This one is 2 #1 overall picks swapped and both are going to be starters for at least the time being.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Had to go look up Cutler's career just to see if this was close. Realized Cutler threw for 4000 yards once in 8 full seasons. Stafford has done it 8 out of 9. Cutler would also need to throw 82 more TDs and negative 14 interceptions lol. Stafford is significantly closer to Dan Marino than Jay Cutler.

I mean part of that is due to overall evolution of the game. Comparing Marino to Stafford or Watson is just crazy. There are guys who make a lot of money to analyze this year after year and they show Stafford to be ranked somewhere between 10-15.

 

[chugg21]

I mean part of that is due to overall evolution of the game. Comparing Marino to Stafford or Watson is just crazy. There are guys who make a lot of money to analyze this year after year and they show Stafford to be ranked somewhere between 10-15.

I don't even know what we are going back and forth about at this point lol. I'd put him in the 8-12 range, the tier where if you have a good roster then you have a shot to win it all. Guess it doesn't really matter where either of us rank him, the dudes that get paid to make these deals for a living seemed to value him quite highly even at 33.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I mean part of that is due to overall evolution of the game. Comparing Marino to Stafford or Watson is just crazy. There are guys who make a lot of money to analyze this year after year and they show Stafford to be ranked somewhere between 10-15.

That's why we need to look at overall efficiency and non-garbage time situations. It's easy to put up garbage stats in today's game.