Obviously, Something Happened

[jekelish]

Are we really still debating what a player might or might not have done, and for which he won't be punished because why on earth would you punish someone for not getting arrested?

Is that what's going on here?

We need a freaking game, stat.

 

[RF2044]

Nope, no snow, just apparently some unpaid items in his possession that he was fortunate enough to be pardoned for.

If you have information corroborating that, I'm all ears. Otherwise it is just more uninformed speculation.

Again, if he's guilty, then there should be [and hopefully will be] consequences. Stealing is abhorrent, in my opinion. But if not, then I'm with JoeSU, Jekelish, and Armory about how irresponsible the presumption of guilt is.

 

[CuseIsInTheHouse]

Are we really still debating what a player might or might not have done, and for which he won't be punished because why on earth would you punish someone for not getting arrested?

Is that what's going on here?

We need a freaking game, stat.

Do you think JB will be asked about this on Saturday after the game?

 

[CuseTroop]

Do you think JB will be asked about this on Saturday after the game?

Man I hope so... Just to be able to see the look JB gives who ever asks him.

EDIT- as badass that look would be... i hope no body brings this up.

 

[orangecuse]

If you have information corroborating that, I'm all ears. Otherwise it is just more uninformed speculation.

Again, if he's guilty, then there should be [and hopefully will be] consequences. Stealing is abhorrent, in my opinion. But if not, then I'm with JoeSU, Jekelish, and Armory about how irresponsible the presumption of guilt is.

Well, I did say apparently, not certainly...I could have said allegedly. In any event, what do you think (emotion, pc, etc, aside) was the reason for his detainment by security? I have been in various stores thousands of times over the years and have never been detained. I have no idea what your experiences have been, but I'm assuming you haven't either. Something obviously occurred that, minimally, was quite suspicious triggering probable cause and MCW's ensuing detainment by the store's security personnel.

 

[JD]

If only you guys were on the OJ jury. Obviously, something happened to nearly decapitate her.

 

[jsshap]

The Bernie scandal should have made it abundantly clear that the presumption of innocence is an antiquated notion.

The presumption of innocence is commonly misunderstood. It is a principle of criminal law, that requires the presumption prior to finding someone guilty of a crime and taking away their liberty. It does not mean you cannot form opinions or conclusions re: one's innocence or guilt, and act on those conclusions. For example, if your son comes home from school with a black eye and tells you some kid named Billy punched him, you will not presume Billy innocent -- and you need not -- only the government must before punishing Billy. Or if you see someone key your car, that person is not presumed innocent of destruction of property by you, only under the law until a court or jury hears your testimony and decides guilt.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Imagine if your the poor journalist student who gets assign to cover JB's press conference and is told by his professor to ask if MCW will be reprimanded. "Not one f***ing game" will look tame after JB gets to respond to a question like that.

 

[CuseIsInTheHouse]

The presumption of innocence is commonly misunderstood. It is a principle of criminal law, that requires the presumption prior to finding someone guilty of a crime and taking away their liberty. It does not mean you cannot form opinions or conclusions re: one's innocence or guilt, and act on those conclusions. For example, if your son comes home from school with a black eye and tells you some kid named Billy punched him, you will not presume Billy innocent -- and you need not -- only the government must before punishing Billy. Or if you see someone key your car, that person is not presumed innocent of destruction of property by you, only under the law until a court or jury hears your testimony and decides guilt.

Just like freedom of speech. You can't tell your boss to "@#$% Off" and then complain that your first amendment right was violated when you're fired for it. You just can't be arrested for saying it.

 

[JOC44]

I would lock MCW in his dorm from now until the second week of April, and have him strapped on a board like Hannibal Lechter so that Red Autry can wheel him to the Dome for games.

 

[RF2044]

Well, I did say apparently, not certainly...I could have said allegedly. In any event, what do you think (emotion, pc, etc, aside) was the reason for his detainment by security? I have been in various stores thousands of times over the years and have never been detained. I have no idea what your experiences have been, but I'm assuming you haven't either. Something obviously occurred that, minimally, was quite suspicious triggering probable cause and MCW's ensuing detainment by the store's security personnel.

I've already stated my viewpoint in an earlier post about shoplifiting and whether MCW should be punished if he is in fact found guilty of anything. I assure you that my perspective on this matter has nothing to do with 'PC.' It also has nothing to do with wanting to bury my head in the sand and pretend that a player from the program I root for can do no wrong.

It has everything to do with looking at facts and interpreting the available information objectively rather than subjectively, or infering what "probably" happened by writing a story in my head and filling in the blanks where there are holes. And if more facts come out [besides a grainy photo and somebody's tweet], then I reserve the right to adjust my opinion, based upon the new information at hand.

When the "news" came out about Scoop Jardine allegedly point shaving, did you accept it at face value? Were you of the opinion that "something obviously occurred" then just because it was reported? That's all I'm saying--let's let the information come out, or not. Either way, we'll have our answer.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I would lock MCW in his dorm from now until the second week of April, and have him strapped on a board like Hannibal Lechter so that Red Autry can wheel him to the Dome for games.

You do realize Hannibal Lechter escaped...we need something a little more restrained than that.

 

[bnoro]

Ahh...There need be no judicial process in the court of Boeheim. genius (with a small "g")

So you're telling me if I was at Carousel Mall, and supposedly got detained but was not arrested and nothing went on my criminal record that I should be suspended from school at SU because "something definitely happened"?

You just love stirring the pot, don't you? Oh Lord

 

[dasher]

Well, I did say apparently, not certainly...I could have said allegedly. In any event, what do you think (emotion, pc, etc, aside) was the reason for his detainment by security? I have been in various stores thousands of times over the years and have never been detained. I have no idea what your experiences have been, but I'm assuming you haven't either. Something obviously occurred that, minimally, was quite suspicious triggering probable cause and MCW's ensuing detainment by the store's security personnel.

I was in fyi one time. Just me and a young black kid. The cops came, alerted by store management, and confronted the kid. Frisked him. Made him pull out his pockets. When they couldn't find anything they made him pull his pants down in the middle of the store. To the day I die I will never forget the look on that kids face. They found nothing. And instead of saying they were sorry, they talked tough and then left. No, it's never happened to me. Of course, I'm white.

 

[GonzoInMD]

Well, I did say apparently, not certainly...I could have said allegedly. In any event, what do you think (emotion, pc, etc, aside) was the reason for his detainment by security? I have been in various stores thousands of times over the years and have never been detained. I have no idea what your experiences have been, but I'm assuming you haven't either. Something obviously occurred that, minimally, was quite suspicious triggering probable cause and MCW's ensuing detainment by the store's security personnel.

Are you a black male? In a group of other young men in a store where the normal customer is a middle-aged white woman? Perhaps that was all that was needed to cause suspicion on the part of a salesclerk who had no idea who MCW is.

 

[MCC]

The problem with that analogy is that in this case there wasn't any snow.

Perhaps we (the syracusefan.com community) are most accurately represented by a blind man who's being told there is snow on the ground upon waking, having heard the prior evening that there was no snow. This analogy is even more accurate in that we aren't sure what snow looks like, thus many (even innumerable?) scenarios play out in our mind's eye, and are manifested in the manifold speculative diatribes targeting MCW, L&T and JB, only to ultimately - as all things must - twist in intricate helices, a mobius strip of rock-kicking tangents, bringing us back to Bjorn.

 

[AirForceOrange]

 

[mountaincuse]

Reading the title of this thread makes me think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5oyUhRQr7_8#t=50s

'Tis the season to be Merry

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

As someone who used to work in a large dept store...I can tell you, MCW was likely followed on camera from entry to exit. Whatever happened or didn't happen was caught on security cameras. I don't think there will be much gray area here...

 

[kuethstheman]

So you're telling me if I was at Carousel Mall, and supposedly got detained but was not arrested and nothing went on my criminal record that I should be suspended from school at SU because "something definitely happened"?

You just love stirring the pot, don't you? Oh Lord

Actually if the JRB's policies allow, they should investigate and ask him about it, if he did steal he should confess, and then the JRB (and JB) should do what their policies say they should do. Even though he wasn't arrested, there are other policies that govern his behavior.

 

[Noexcuse]

don't claim to know what happened but what i do know is that the truth will eventually come out and history has taught us nothing if not that a coverup is always ten time worse than a mea culpa.
Foul deeds will rise,
Though all the earth o'erwhelm them, to men's eyes.
hamlet.

 

[Cuseregular]

As someone who used to work in a large dept store...I can tell you, MCW was likely followed on camera from entry to exit. Whatever happened or didn't happen was caught on security cameras. I don't think there will be much gray area here...

theres a cliche that applies for this one, something about fire and smoke....

NBC sports weighs in on the no story story, move on...

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/10/michael-carter-williams-debunks-arrest-rumors/

 

[JoeSU]

Really? I wonder how Bernie feels about that flintstone, I mean bedrock, principle? :noidea:

I don't agree with how the Fine situation was handled, which was obviously influenced heavily by the Sandusky scandal.

To look at the MCW situation another way, if these circumstances involved some random student-at-large, do you think the University would be justified in suspending them?

 

[orange79]

So let's cut the BS and move on. Accept what happened and that there are no consequences.

That's the whole point - we don't know what happened. You are assuming something did. You may be right. But we don't know.

 

[HouseOfCuse]

I was in fyi one time. Just me and a young black kid. The cops came, alerted by store management, and confronted the kid. Frisked him. Made him pull out his pockets. When they couldn't find anything they made him pull his pants down in the middle of the store. To the day I die I will never forget the look on that kids face. They found nothing. And instead of saying they were sorry, they talked tough and then left. No, it's never happened to me. Of course, I'm white.

I've had this happen to me. Well not pull my pants down in the middle of the store but I was walking out of a store and got stopped by management. They asked for a receipt for something I bought and I had thrown it in the garbage. I yelled to the cashier who was an older woman and said "hey I just but this from you". She looked at me and said "I'm too busy, I have no idea." It was less than a few minutes before and she acted like she had no clue. I almost had to dig thru a garbage can to find the receipt. Luckily my grandfather was there coming out of the store and he knew everyone there so when i said what happened they let it go. If not I would be digging through garbage to find a receipt.

So yeah, mistakes can happen.