Ohio Bobcats (Week 1)

[Consigliere]

That's the trade off. Bowl game or fun road trip loss.

Not that year. Losing to LSU didn’t cost us a bowl game. Losing to Middle Tennessee, Wake and BC cost us a bowl game.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Not that year. Losing to LSU didn’t cost us a bowl game. Losing to Middle Tennessee, Wake and BC cost us a bowl game.

That year I thought we got pretty worn out from the schedule, weren't we missing some guys for the Wake and BC games?

 

[TheCusian]

Not that year. Losing to LSU didn’t cost us a bowl game. Losing to Middle Tennessee, Wake and BC cost us a bowl game.

In retrospect, yep. But if we’re talking scheduling our way to bowls, LSU ain’t it.

 

[Alsacs]

In retrospect, yep. But if we’re talking scheduling our way to bowls, LSU ain’t it.

LSU wasn’t the problem. If we won the 3 other nonconference games.
1 tough one is fine.

We have to play 1 P5 team and LSU is a special trip.

 

[upperdeck]

LSU wasn’t the problem. If we won the 3 other nonconference games.
1 tough one is fine.

We have to play 1 P5 team and LSU is a special trip.

any we had more then enough chances to win that game too.

 

[kirbivore]

Once the football factories adopted our money ball of dual threat QB's the odds of SU ever winning another national title became practically non existent. Once SU went into the ACC they should have adopted the bowl game or bust scheduling employed by BC and NC St. Strength of schedule will hardly ever matter to us. If that once in a generation season happens SU will still have to beat a Clemson/FSU type powerhouse in season anyway, and there might be a decent coastal team the ACC title game for a SOS boost.

 

[SUskibum]

I think early on the true MVP this year will be evident. OL Coach

Yup, this board, including me, is usually wrong about most things (right KaiserUEO ?). But 3 things I think the majority of the board believed and were vindicated on were

1. Ward was not a good DC
2. Martin was not a good QB coach
3. Cav was not a good OL coach

All 3 have been fixed and I think we will reap the benefits this year Since all the coaches were here at least since spring.

 

[TheCusian]

LSU wasn’t the problem. If we won the 3 other nonconference games.
1 tough one is fine.

We have to play 1 P5 team and LSU is a special trip.

Not picking on you - as I get the argument. I do. But there's kind of dissonance around the fanbase with this kind of thing

"We want to make 5 straight bowl games like Wake Forest"

"Well, we should probably schedule like them"

"Some locations are just special"

"Then we probably won't have that kind of track record or perception or make as many bowl games"

"I can't believe we didn't make a bowl game, again! Fire the HC!"

*whispers* "They play bowl games in special places that are fun to go as a fan and we get to build the program and perception and keep our decent HC"

"Dino has only 1 winning season in 6! Fire the HC!"

"Our SoS was pretty high for most of those. Maybe we should schedule some easier OoC games..."

Bottom line: Everyone wants to be the kid of program that can schedule hard and win most of their games on their way to bowl victories. We're not it and haven't been for 20 years.

 

[Alsacs]

Not picking on you - as I get the argument. I do. But there's kind of dissonance around the fanbase with this kind of thing

"We want to make 5 straight bowl games like Wake Forest"

"Well, we should probably schedule like them"

"Some locations are just special"

"Then we probably won't have that kind of track record or perception or make as many bowl games"

"I can't believe we didn't make a bowl game, again! Fire the HC!"

*whispers* "They play bowl games in special places that are fun to go as a fan and we get to build the program and perception and keep our decent HC"

"Dino has only 1 winning season in 6! Fire the HC!"

"Our SoS was pretty high for most of those. Maybe we should schedule some easier OoC games..."

Bottom line: Everyone wants to be the kid of program that can schedule hard and win most of their games on their way to bowl victories. We're not it and haven't been for 20 years.

Wake Forest has played Notre Dame 3 of the last 5 years.
They have played 3 cupcakes and 1 P5 nonconference game.
The year other than they played ND they played UNC as a nonconference game.

We need to play 3 of 4 nonconference games as winnable games and then 1 P5 game.
LSU has a one time series.

Being like Wake Forest and BC would mean going 3-1 in the nonconference and then 3-5 which is sub .500 in conference play.
We shouldn’t have to go 4-0 in nonconference play to get to 6-6.

 

[TheCusian]

Wake Forest has played Notre Dame 3 of the last 5 years.
They have played 3 cupcakes and 1 P5 nonconference game.
The year other than they played ND they played UNC as a nonconference game.

We need to play 3 of 4 nonconference games as winnable games and then 1 P5 game.
LSU has a one time series.

Being like Wake Forest and BC would mean going 3-1 in the nonconference and then 3-5 which is sub .500 in conference play.
We shouldn’t have to go 4-0 in nonconference play to get to 6-6.

No, we shouldn’t. But if it’s about maximizing your chances to get to a bowl, you don’t schedule your P5 as a juggernaut. Especially when the ACC is giving you a bunch of games vs ND.

 

[Alsacs]

No, we shouldn’t. But if it’s about maximizing your chances to get to a bowl, you don’t schedule your P5 as a juggernaut. Especially when the ACC is giving you a bunch of games vs ND.

Syracuse football should be able to go 3-5 in the ACC regularly.
The ACC isn’t the NFL.
We should be able to go 3-5 and with 3-1 that is 6-6 most years.

Playing LSU or USC or Michigan or Penn State is an automatic yes.

 

[TheCusian]

Syracuse football should be able to go 3-5 in the ACC regularly.
The ACC isn’t the NFL.
We should be able to go 3-5 and with 3-1 that is 6-6 most years.

Playing LSU or USC or Michigan or Penn State is an automatic yes.

Lots of “shoulds” but we haven’t been good enough through 2 ACC HCs regularly enough to say that. We’re not in a position to be picky.

If we’re saying it’s worth not getting to a bowl if we can go watch us lose at Penn St, that’s a decision. I like Rutgers at home. Liberty at home.

And we def need to evaluate winning % more fairly. (That’s why I’m ok with holding Dino to 6 wins this year - that OOC isn’t tough at all)

 

[Alsacs]

Lots of “shoulds” but we haven’t been good enough through 2 ACC HCs regularly enough to say that. We’re not in a position to be picky.

If we’re saying it’s worth not getting to a bowl if we can go watch us lose at Penn St, that’s a decision. I like Rutgers at home. Liberty at home.

And we def need to evaluate winning % more fairly. (That’s why I’m ok with holding Dino to 6 wins this year - that OOC isn’t tough at all)

You’re basically saying we can only play only cupcakes for the nonconference games to dream of going to a bowl game. No we can play three winnable nonconference games and one challenge game even Syracuse with our lack of talent can do that because we want to see good football teams on the schedule. Plus with Notre Dame every three years we’re going to have one tough nonconference game. The LSU series was a good job. We played them competitively two times. Those games aren’t why we didn’t go to a bowl game.
We should be able to go 3-5 in conference play a lot more.
2-6 is the problem. Not playing 1 tough nonconference game.

 

[baggerbob]

You’re basically saying we can only play only cupcakes for the nonconference games to dream of going to a bowl game. No we can play three winnable nonconference games and one challenge game even Syracuse with our lack of talent can do that because we want to see good football teams on the schedule. Plus with Notre Dame every three years we’re going to have one tough nonconference game. The LSU series was a good job. We played them competitively two times. Those games aren’t why we didn’t go to a bowl game.
We should be able to go 3-5 in conference play a lot more.
2-6 is the problem. Not playing 1 tough nonconference game.

We have an 8 game conference schedule, which is all the toughness we need. Then every few years ND. Until we get to the point where we are consistently better then everyone in conference, but Clemson, we should schedule 4 OOC games to win.

 

[RF2044]

You’re basically saying we can only play only cupcakes for the nonconference games to dream of going to a bowl game. No we can play three winnable nonconference games and one challenge game even Syracuse with our lack of talent can do that because we want to see good football teams on the schedule. Plus with Notre Dame every three years we’re going to have one tough nonconference game. The LSU series was a good job. We played them competitively two times. Those games aren’t why we didn’t go to a bowl game.
We should be able to go 3-5 in conference play a lot more.
2-6 is the problem. Not playing 1 tough nonconference game.

No, what he's saying is that getting to bowl games is EXTREMELY important for where our program is on the curve. And you don't shoot yourself in the foot by taking a guaranteed "L" when other teams don't schedule that way.

Let's get to a bowl this year. Then, let's sustain that success next year. Future looks bright with Shrader / Lamson in the pipeline at QB. Hopefully, a sustained run of a couple of winning seasons will also move the bar upward a notch with respect to recruiting. Which will in turn enhance the overall talent, and maybe enable us to land a higher rated recruit or ten.

And then once things are rolling, we can then swing for the fences in a game against the likes of LSU. No need to make the path to success harder. I'd take a bowl season with a weak schedule 100 out of 100 times over 5-7 where we played a tough non-conference game, when other peer teams are fattening up on sacrificial lambs. We're not competing for a playoff berth -- nobody is going to look back and complain about our SOS if we get to a bowl. It will be viewed as a step on the progression toward sustainable and sustained success.

We're not that far off -- no need to make our path to consecutive winning seasons and beyond tougher.

 

[Alsacs]

No, what he's saying is that getting to bowl games is EXTREMELY important for where our program is on the curve. And you don't shoot yourself in the foot by taking a guaranteed "L" when other teams don't schedule that way.

Let's get to a bowl this year. Then, let's sustain that success next year. Future looks bright with Shrader / Lamson in the pipeline at QB. Hopefully, a sustained run of a couple of winning seasons will also move the bar upward a notch with respect to recruiting. Which will in turn enhance the overall talent, and maybe enable us to land a higher rated recruit or ten.

And then once things are rolling, we can then swing for the fences in a game against the likes of LSU. No need to make the path to success harder. I'd take a bowl season with a weak schedule 100 out of 100 times over 5-7 where we played a tough non-conference game, when other peer teams are fattening up on sacrificial lambs. We're not competing for a playoff berth -- nobody is going to look back and complain about our SOS if we get to a bowl. It will be viewed as a step on the progression toward sustainable and sustained success.

We're not that far off -- no need to make our path to consecutive winning seasons and beyond tougher.

We play Notre Dame in nonconference.
Playing a series against LSU isn’t the issue.

The idea our ACC schedule is crazy hard is absurd(not directed at you)
We play 2 tough conference games.
Florida State and Clemson. 0-2

Louisville, Wake, Boston college, NC State every year should be 2-2.

We should be able to split Pitt/Coastal team every year

3-5 is the problem.
If we go 3-5 then we could go 3-1 in the nonconference.

We went 2-6 the year we played LSU and lost the Middle Tennessee games.
If we went 3-5 and beat MTSU we go bowling.
That is the problem.

Syracuse football shouldn’t over schedule by doing that it’s playing 2 P5/ND games.
Did you criticize the decision to schedule Tennessee in the Chick-Fil-A game?

We went 4-8 the year we lost at LSU.
The schedule should be 3 easier nonconference teams and then 1 P5 challenge game.

I am not expecting to schedule LSU type teams every nonconference but every 5-6 years it’s good.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We play Notre Dame in nonconference.
Playing a series against LSU isn’t the issue.

The idea our ACC schedule is crazy hard is absurd(not directed at you)
We play 2 tough conference games.
Florida State and Clemson. 0-2

Louisville, Wake, Boston college, NC State every year should be 2-2.

We should be able to split Pitt/Coastal team every year

3-5 is the problem.
If we go 3-5 then we could go 3-1 in the nonconference.

We went 2-6 the year we played LSU and lost the Middle Tennessee games.
If we went 3-5 and beat MTSU we go bowling.
That is the problem.

Syracuse football shouldn’t over schedule by doing that it’s playing 2 P5/ND games.
Did you criticize the decision to schedule Tennessee in the Chick-Fil-A game?

We went 4-8 the year we lost at LSU.
The schedule should be 3 easier nonconference teams and then 1 P5 challenge game.

I am not expecting to schedule LSU type teams every nonconference but every 5-6 years it’s good.

I'm going to split the difference on the two perspectives and say let's a) schedule such that 4-0 OOC every season is attainable if not likely and b) shoot to go at least 3-5 every season in conference.

That would mean our new standard season is 7 and 5, and that's a decent floor. (Lest anyone bring up the Dazzler at BC or anything note that I said 7-5 is the floor. Not the ceiling. Try as they might, meatheads cannot break through a 7-5 ceiling. The meat is too soft. It's gross actually. Makes weird sounds. Jarring to see and hear the impact. I digress)

 

[upperdeck]

stop losing games to avg teams and you elevate yourself to an above avg team..

 

[qdawgg]

Let’s remember we play in the ACC. Playing one tough OOC game every once in awhile isn’t preventing us from bowling. It’s almost absurd to argue that 5% of our scheduling is preventing us from bowling and not the 40% of winnable game we are leaving on the table. Don’t bother pulling out your calculators, those numbers are literally just ones that my fingers pushed. Can’t be too far off though. It’s not like we’re schedule LSU type games every year.

I think this argument further proves though that all of this resolves around the coach. If we have to schedule as weak an OOC schedule as possible b/c we lose winnable conference games. The problem isn’t the scheduling but the coaching.

 

[syrBossHogg]

We've got the OOC scheduling down now, easy travel games for fans like Rutgers/Maryland/Army but then also a cool neutral site games against teams like the Vols.

I didn't love the LSU series but I think it was more just bad timing. I think we scheduled the series in 2014 and that was after making 3 bowl games in 4 years. Then the ACC got tougher in 2017. It would've been better if we had gone to Baton Rouge in 2015 and then played them at the Dome in 2018 when we didn't have Clemson at home.

 

[kcsu]

I think early on the true MVP this year will be evident. OL Coach

Thank goodness it worked out for Cav with his wife's situation. I think Dino pulled some major strings for him. Really feel good about how this came down

 

[sufandu]

LOL. Amazing how many people actually want I hold 2020 against the coach.

Personally I will give him credit for keeping his team eligible to play in all of the scheduled games in 2020, even if they had to convince a fullback to play guard to prevent having to forfeit games. There are plenty of programs that weren’t able to accomplish that task.

Regarding a buyout, paying anything to a coach not to coach is too much.

All of the negativity before this team has even played a game is comical.

This team is young. Be patient.

I don't know if your name indicates that you're a dad of an SU player. If you are, thanks for joining us. I'm also not sure how long you've followed SU football. Maybe it's longer than the 4+ months you've been on the board. If it isn't, I'd ask that you be careful when asking us, many of which are life long diehard fans, to be patient. We've been patient while getting out teeth kicked in for the better part of 15+ years. If we hadn't been, we wouldn't be here right now.

 

[RF2044]

We play Notre Dame in nonconference.
Playing a series against LSU isn’t the issue.

The idea our ACC schedule is crazy hard is absurd(not directed at you)
We play 2 tough conference games.
Florida State and Clemson. 0-2

Louisville, Wake, Boston college, NC State every year should be 2-2.

We should be able to split Pitt/Coastal team every year

3-5 is the problem.
If we go 3-5 then we could go 3-1 in the nonconference.

We went 2-6 the year we played LSU and lost the Middle Tennessee games.
If we went 3-5 and beat MTSU we go bowling.
That is the problem.

Syracuse football shouldn’t over schedule by doing that it’s playing 2 P5/ND games.
Did you criticize the decision to schedule Tennessee in the Chick-Fil-A game?

We went 4-8 the year we lost at LSU.
The schedule should be 3 easier nonconference teams and then 1 P5 challenge game.

I am not expecting to schedule LSU type teams every nonconference but every 5-6 years it’s good.

You're right -- we need to do better.

Remember how we scheduled under Gross? It derailed things. No need to make our path intentionally harder, especially when we have a near certain built in "L" having to face Clemson every year. Schedule LSU on top of that, and now we have 10 games to win 6. Not much room for error.

The objective should be to get to bowls, every year. Not to pound our chest about what we hypothetically SHOULD be able to do [similarly, not directed at you]. This isn't 1997, when we were a top 25-ish team every season. We need to get back first -- let's not make the road a tougher climb.

 

[TheCusian]

No, what he's saying is that getting to bowl games is EXTREMELY important for where our program is on the curve. And you don't shoot yourself in the foot by taking a guaranteed "L" when other teams don't schedule that way.

Let's get to a bowl this year. Then, let's sustain that success next year. Future looks bright with Shrader / Lamson in the pipeline at QB. Hopefully, a sustained run of a couple of winning seasons will also move the bar upward a notch with respect to recruiting. Which will in turn enhance the overall talent, and maybe enable us to land a higher rated recruit or ten.

And then once things are rolling, we can then swing for the fences in a game against the likes of LSU. No need to make the path to success harder. I'd take a bowl season with a weak schedule 100 out of 100 times over 5-7 where we played a tough non-conference game, when other peer teams are fattening up on sacrificial lambs. We're not competing for a playoff berth -- nobody is going to look back and complain about our SOS if we get to a bowl. It will be viewed as a step on the progression toward sustainable and sustained success.

We're not that far off -- no need to make our path to consecutive winning seasons and beyond tougher.

Exactly. Not against playing a traditional power in the P5 OOC in non ND years. Just against it right now.

Wake is no great shakes, but gets more love from the perception their schedule and to Clawson’s credit (I hate him, but credit is due) he’s built up from the bottom and the whole thing is pretty stable if not exciting. They still haven’t beaten Dabo, for example.

 

[CousCuse]

Exactly. Not against playing a traditional power in the P5 OOC in non ND years. Just against it right now.

Wake is no great shakes, but gets more love from the perception their schedule and to Clawson’s credit (I hate him, but credit is due) he’s built up from the bottom and the whole thing is pretty stable if not exciting. They still haven’t beaten Dabo, for example.

He has built a very solid program at Wake, if Dino flops, he is near the top of the list.