Ohio coach Frank Solich retires | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Ohio coach Frank Solich retires

Last season I give the entire program an A for simply pulling it off.

If you watched the interviews with Gilbert and White I felt that White did an excellent job articulating the challenges the kids faced.

As an FYI I was very impressed with White. The guy checked all the boxes possible in that type of interview. As to Gilbert not so much but hopefully he is a better coach than interview.

Back to Last year between 2 new coordinators, no spring practice covid and unprecedented injuries we were hit worse than most teams.

I'm impressed that Dino has shaken everything up. From the strength and conditioning on down this year seems to be completely different which is great to hear.

I'm bullish on the season if we stay healthy we will go to a bowl.
 
Speaking of excuses, I don't know if people recall, but the players were all spooked because of COVID testing protocols, and the fact that they were different in different states (teams from which we would be playing). I seem to recall reading crumbs through the ongoing media blackouts that they players "went on strike" a couple times that preseason for more information about testing before several of them wound up sitting out or walking away.

To me, that indicated a trust issue with the staff. Injuries happen, but you don't become that kind of awful so quickly without off field issues. So when I say that I hope the culture of losing hasn't become ingrained, this is part of what I'm talking about. The players have to trust the staff and want to play for them.
Some good points here
 
Every coach whose program struggles can look at "reasons". Every single one. In most cases, reasons and excuses are used interchangeably. As an aside, coaches who are consistently under .500 are fired every day. Having a winning program is part of the expectations for a highly-paid coach at the P5 level. Doing so in a conference where the new commissioner has stated a desire for an improved football presence will be even more important.

That aside, let's look at the "reasons" for our 1-win season, and let's keep in mind that it was only the second one-win season in the past 70+ years (the other being accomplished by the Honorable Gregory Robinson). And by the way, this isn't aimed at you. Lots of people use these "reasons":

1. It was a COVID year! Well, OK, that "reason" would be valid if the entire pandemic were confined to a geographic area bounded by Genesee St and Skytop but it wasn't. It was a global pandemic. It was in all the newspapers. We had to get vaccinated. EVERY program had to deal with it. The programs who had solid years didn't minimize their achievement because of Covid. You know who else had to deal with Covid? Every one of the 10 teams who beat us. Besides, we all bragged about how none of our players actually GOT Covid. It was not like the hoops side where several players got sick and we had to cancel practice during quarantine in-season.

2. We had new coordinators! Here is the problem with that excuse. There would be validity if their predecessors had left for other jobs. That's not what happened. We had to fire both OC and DC in the same year. That is NEVER the sign of a healthy program and it reflects directly upon the guy who hired those two most important cogs in the first place. Yes, we lost Spring training that would have helped familiarize the players with the systems but we never would have been in that situation in the first place had Dino made the right hires previously. I don't let him off the hook very much for the "new coordinators" "reason". It is kind of like the kid who waits until the last second to do his homework and then doesn't feel well. Yeah, he has a reason but it is a problem he sort of got himself into.

3. We had injuries. Now, that is a reason I agree with and can get behind. However, the injuries really highlighted the lack of quality depth in the program in the fifth year. It is a dual edged sword and it does fall to the staff as to why the quality depth was not there. Or at least enough quality depth to avoid an historically bad final record.

At the end of the day, a one-off trainwreck of a season can be excused if the rest of the tenure had been successful. However, the "reasons" for four losing seasons in five years start to sound a lot like excuses.

Still, it's all irrelevant in the short term. Last year (and the reasons/excuses) is behind us, Dino is still here, he has shown that he CAN win big at least once, so now we have to move on and hope that the tweaks/recruits and whatever else is being done can get us back to a season that we can all agree on as successful. We all want that, we are all Orange, we all support the team, and we all want a winning SU regardless of how we individually view the reasons/excuses for our inability to have done that on a consistent basis during the Babers tenure. Let's start to turn it all around vs. Ohio!

Are you of the mind that all .500 coaches deserve to be fired regardless of the the circumstances of their employment? Have their been .500 coaches who've been fired unfairly due to fans and boosters applying a simple pass/fail to their judgements?

The framework of "excuses" implies that there is an attempt to skirt accountability. That is not my position. I'd prefer to look at all of the data, reasons, and intangibles (leadership, university spokesperson, etc) fairly. I think good AD's do this unless they get pressured by fans/boosters to apply a different metric (this often results in black and white thinking and blind talk of "excuses" and "holding people accountable").

Fans who rely on the term "excuses" feel to me to be lazy in their analysis. "I don't want to deal with the reasons, I just want to win baby" ... and then the new coach walks into the same set of circumstances held to the same bar by people who don't understand the job's structural weaknesses and things outside of the coaches purview (like pandemics, or NIL, or money for staff, facility improvements, etc.)

Alright, quick rundown of your reasons/excuses:

I'm not going to separate them like you did, as I think they should be taken together. It wasn't just COVID and new coordinators and injuries, it was no camp due to COVID to install systems with new coordinators and injuries and opt outs requiring things to be installed against conference opponents rather than a soft OOC.

I'm very open to holding Babers accountable for needed to replace both coordinators. It was a bold move. I think it shows that things were not healthy (to your point) and that he had the guts to try to fix it. I don't think he thought it would be combined with a global pandemic and no camp, limited practices.

Your last 2 paragraphs are interesting. I did some editing:

"At the end of the day, a one-off trainwreck of a season can be excused if the rest of the tenure had been successful. Success based on what metric? I thought beating a ranked team in year one was good. Beating #2 Clemson in year 3, better. A 10 win season, beating two ranked teams, taking Clemson to the final drive? Amazing. Room for growth, but a steady progression. 2019 is a black mark on his time here. However, the "reasons" for four losing seasons in five years start to sound a lot like excuses. Using one simple metric, combined with calling things excuses.

Still, it's all irrelevant in the short term. Good. Big picture leads to a more exhaustive look at his time here. Last year (and the reasons/excuses) is behind us, Dino is still here, he has shown that he CAN win big at least once (Again, using record as the sole definition of success), so now we have to move on and hope that the tweaks/recruits and whatever else is being done can get us back to a season that we can all agree on as successful. I don't think we'll all agree on that. We all want that, we are all Orange, we all support the team, and we all want a winning SU regardless of how we individually view the reasons/excuses for our inability to have done that on a consistent basis during the Babers tenure. This stuff is tricky. I get that we want to break it down on wins and losses, but if we're serious about the programs health - the reasons should be examined regardless of the result. I'd guess that this is how Clemson built what they've built. Let's start to turn it all around vs. Ohio! Yes, go orange!
 
Speaking of excuses, I don't know if people recall, but the players were all spooked because of COVID testing protocols, and the fact that they were different in different states (teams from which we would be playing). I seem to recall reading crumbs through the ongoing media blackouts that they players "went on strike" a couple times that preseason for more information about testing before several of them wound up sitting out or walking away.

To me, that indicated a trust issue with the staff. Injuries happen, but you don't become that kind of awful so quickly without off field issues. So when I say that I hope the culture of losing hasn't become ingrained, this is part of what I'm talking about. The players have to trust the staff and want to play for them.
The amount of players who came back for an extra year, including the players who were opting out shows the opposite. I think (my wife works at a college) that students on the whole got jerked around by college administrators enough that there was a lack of trust institutionally with a portion of the student bodies everywhere. Not sure it's indicative of anything deeper.
 
A couple of other points about the interview with both coordinators.

White actually blamed himself for a 3 game stretch and said that he decided to simplify things and let the kids play. Gilbert said that he liked a QB that could run. He also said that he want to be able to play fast slow or at any pace required to win the games. Talked about Benson and his elite speed same with Taj and Cooper. didnt mention any other skill kids much but did point out the I believe it was Q was making strides this spring. Made a point 2 or 3 times that WR need three things to play. Know the play book, catch the ball and make something happen when you catch it. Sou Whnd simple but i like the show me approach. White Loves his LB group which is going to be the strength of the D.

Based on the interviews i expect to see SU play much slower and to run the ball and utilize the TE way more than we have seen during Dinos time on the Hill.

This teams strenght is RBs on O and LBs on D and we will play to those strenghts. I fully expect this team to look very different than in the past and I think that we are going to do well if and its a big if our key guys stay healthy
 
Are you of the mind that all .500 coaches deserve to be fired regardless of the the circumstances of their employment? Have their been .500 coaches who've been fired unfairly due to fans and boosters applying a simple pass/fail to their judgements?

The framework of "excuses" implies that there is an attempt to skirt accountability. That is not my position. I'd prefer to look at all of the data, reasons, and intangibles (leadership, university spokesperson, etc) fairly. I think good AD's do this unless they get pressured by fans/boosters to apply a different metric (this often results in black and white thinking and blind talk of "excuses" and "holding people accountable").

Fans who rely on the term "excuses" feel to me to be lazy in their analysis. "I don't want to deal with the reasons, I just want to win baby" ... and then the new coach walks into the same set of circumstances held to the same bar by people who don't understand the job's structural weaknesses and things outside of the coaches purview (like pandemics, or NIL, or money for staff, facility improvements, etc.)

Alright, quick rundown of your reasons/excuses:

I'm not going to separate them like you did, as I think they should be taken together. It wasn't just COVID and new coordinators and injuries, it was no camp due to COVID to install systems with new coordinators and injuries and opt outs requiring things to be installed against conference opponents rather than a soft OOC.

I'm very open to holding Babers accountable for needed to replace both coordinators. It was a bold move. I think it shows that things were not healthy (to your point) and that he had the guts to try to fix it. I don't think he thought it would be combined with a global pandemic and no camp, limited practices.

Your last 2 paragraphs are interesting. I did some editing:

"At the end of the day, a one-off trainwreck of a season can be excused if the rest of the tenure had been successful. Success based on what metric? I thought beating a ranked team in year one was good. Beating #2 Clemson in year 3, better. A 10 win season, beating two ranked teams, taking Clemson to the final drive? Amazing. Room for growth, but a steady progression. 2019 is a black mark on his time here. However, the "reasons" for four losing seasons in five years start to sound a lot like excuses. Using one simple metric, combined with calling things excuses.

Still, it's all irrelevant in the short term. Good. Big picture leads to a more exhaustive look at his time here. Last year (and the reasons/excuses) is behind us, Dino is still here, he has shown that he CAN win big at least once (Again, using record as the sole definition of success), so now we have to move on and hope that the tweaks/recruits and whatever else is being done can get us back to a season that we can all agree on as successful. I don't think we'll all agree on that. We all want that, we are all Orange, we all support the team, and we all want a winning SU regardless of how we individually view the reasons/excuses for our inability to have done that on a consistent basis during the Babers tenure. This stuff is tricky. I get that we want to break it down on wins and losses, but if we're serious about the programs health - the reasons should be examined regardless of the result. I'd guess that this is how Clemson built what they've built. Let's start to turn it all around vs. Ohio! Yes, go orange!
except that 'simple metric' is a winning record.

even if we give him a mulligan and somehow call last years 1 win debacle a 'winning' season...hes still failed to get to 500 3 out of 5 years.

not good.

if he gets to 500 this year and we do indeed call last year a 'winning' year, then he should stay.

other than that….

1626357485971.jpeg
 
New HC Tim Albin will have his imprint all over the offense. I expect a few new plays but no wholesale changes. He is kinda similar to Scott Shafer but an offense version.

I expect things will be like what they showed in the three games in 2020. It sounds like Coach Solich will be close by to help the transition.


I now lean that Cuse has a 70% chance of winning. I think Ohio players and fans will be jacked for the opener. We'll get their best shot.

Our DL is mature and their OL looks above MAC average but not to a large degree. (2nd team TE, 3rd team OG). Their defense looks at best MAC average. Steele however picks them to finish at or near the top of the MAC east. Likely going off the abilities of Coach Solich.


As Money said, RB Tuggle is the key. We hold him to under 125 yards and don't allow him to run back kickoffs and punts then we should win.

I'm thinking 27-21 Cuse.

With Tuggle scoring a rushing TD and a TD return to keep it close.

This game will prep us for Rutgers...and allows us to defeat them in week 2.
 
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Im thinking 35 to 17.
I hope you are right...but our historical bad away game results tells me we should be happy to squeak one out. Duke in '19 was a beautiful exception though.
 
except that 'simple metric' is a winning record.

even if we give him a mulligan and somehow call last years 1 win debacle a 'winning' season...hes still failed to get to 500 3 out of 5 years.

not good.

if he gets to 500 this year and we do indeed call last year a 'winning' year, then he should stay.

other than that….

View attachment 203480
Better season:

Marrone in 2010 or Babers in 2017?
 
Marrone
Year/HCSRSSoSRecordBest Win
2010 Marrone1.30-2.16 (#85)8-5#20 WVU
2017 Babers1.965.80 (#19)4-8#2 Clemson

4-8 vs the 19th ranked schedule with a win over Clemson is better than 8-5 vs the #85th ranked schedule

Why should Marrone get credit for 8-5 and Babers get dinged for 4-8?
 
Are you of the mind that all .500 coaches deserve to be fired regardless of the the circumstances of their employment? Have their been .500 coaches who've been fired unfairly due to fans and boosters applying a simple pass/fail to their judgements?

The framework of "excuses" implies that there is an attempt to skirt accountability. That is not my position. I'd prefer to look at all of the data, reasons, and intangibles (leadership, university spokesperson, etc) fairly. I think good AD's do this unless they get pressured by fans/boosters to apply a different metric (this often results in black and white thinking and blind talk of "excuses" and "holding people accountable").

Fans who rely on the term "excuses" feel to me to be lazy in their analysis. "I don't want to deal with the reasons, I just want to win baby" ... and then the new coach walks into the same set of circumstances held to the same bar by people who don't understand the job's structural weaknesses and things outside of the coaches purview (like pandemics, or NIL, or money for staff, facility improvements, etc.)

Alright, quick rundown of your reasons/excuses:

I'm not going to separate them like you did, as I think they should be taken together. It wasn't just COVID and new coordinators and injuries, it was no camp due to COVID to install systems with new coordinators and injuries and opt outs requiring things to be installed against conference opponents rather than a soft OOC.

I'm very open to holding Babers accountable for needed to replace both coordinators. It was a bold move. I think it shows that things were not healthy (to your point) and that he had the guts to try to fix it. I don't think he thought it would be combined with a global pandemic and no camp, limited practices.

Your last 2 paragraphs are interesting. I did some editing:

"At the end of the day, a one-off trainwreck of a season can be excused if the rest of the tenure had been successful. Success based on what metric? I thought beating a ranked team in year one was good. Beating #2 Clemson in year 3, better. A 10 win season, beating two ranked teams, taking Clemson to the final drive? Amazing. Room for growth, but a steady progression. 2019 is a black mark on his time here. However, the "reasons" for four losing seasons in five years start to sound a lot like excuses. Using one simple metric, combined with calling things excuses.

Still, it's all irrelevant in the short term. Good. Big picture leads to a more exhaustive look at his time here. Last year (and the reasons/excuses) is behind us, Dino is still here, he has shown that he CAN win big at least once (Again, using record as the sole definition of success), so now we have to move on and hope that the tweaks/recruits and whatever else is being done can get us back to a season that we can all agree on as successful. I don't think we'll all agree on that. We all want that, we are all Orange, we all support the team, and we all want a winning SU regardless of how we individually view the reasons/excuses for our inability to have done that on a consistent basis during the Babers tenure. This stuff is tricky. I get that we want to break it down on wins and losses, but if we're serious about the programs health - the reasons should be examined regardless of the result. I'd guess that this is how Clemson built what they've built. Let's start to turn it all around vs. Ohio! Yes, go orange!
I thought Dick's post was one of the most reasonable made on this forum in weeks. This back-and-forth pitting "reasons" vs. "excuses" seems like an unnecessary exercise in semantics parsing to me.

Ultimately, the beauty of sports is that wins and losses are defined. Once enough sample is built up, one can make a fairly informed assessment of performance. We can litigate 2019 and 2020 all we want, but in late November 2021 we're going to have something resembling a verdict. Dino will either right this ship, or he won't. I suspect there will be the same "reasons" vs "excuses" debate going on then as there is now. But we will have six seasons of sample to make a determination, and at that point, the two are really one and the same.
 
Better season:

Marrone in 2010 or Babers in 2017?
thats easy, Marrone.

Baber's had a horrible year.

beating clemson was either a fluke...or it showed how this team could be...but never was.

bad look for him.

he beat clemson and 2 of the 3 shlit cans.

he shouldve at least swept the shlit cans.
 
Year/HCSRSSoSRecordBest Win
2010 Marrone1.30-2.16 (#85)8-5#20 WVU
2017 Babers1.965.80 (#19)4-8#2 Clemson

4-8 vs the 19th ranked schedule with a win over Clemson is better than 8-5 vs the #85th ranked schedule

Why should Marrone get credit for 8-5 and Babers get dinged for 4-8?
He shouldn't but as a fan I went to a bowl game in 2010. I know shallow but that is how the world thinks.
 
He shouldn't but as a fan I went to a bowl game in 2010. I know shallow but that is how the world thinks.
of course.

but he was also trying to bring in SOS into the overall record, but when you lose all of them, it totally negates it.

Marrone won some 'swing' games, Dino lost them all but pitt...and lost to a low level G5.

Marrone had the better year.

by far.
 
Are you of the mind that all .500 coaches deserve to be fired regardless of the the circumstances of their employment? Have their been .500 coaches who've been fired unfairly due to fans and boosters applying a simple pass/fail to their judgements?

The framework of "excuses" implies that there is an attempt to skirt accountability. That is not my position. I'd prefer to look at all of the data, reasons, and intangibles (leadership, university spokesperson, etc) fairly. I think good AD's do this unless they get pressured by fans/boosters to apply a different metric (this often results in black and white thinking and blind talk of "excuses" and "holding people accountable").

Fans who rely on the term "excuses" feel to me to be lazy in their analysis. "I don't want to deal with the reasons, I just want to win baby" ... and then the new coach walks into the same set of circumstances held to the same bar by people who don't understand the job's structural weaknesses and things outside of the coaches purview (like pandemics, or NIL, or money for staff, facility improvements, etc.)

Alright, quick rundown of your reasons/excuses:

I'm not going to separate them like you did, as I think they should be taken together. It wasn't just COVID and new coordinators and injuries, it was no camp due to COVID to install systems with new coordinators and

I don't think we are really that far apart. We just have different ideas of what constitutes "success" at the P5 level in a position where Dino has made between $10M and $20M and achieved a .400 winning percentage. It's not the Missouri Valley conference nor the MAC. Dino himself set the expectation of "consistently good instead of occasionally great" and I believe it is fair to hold him to that, both based on his five year tenure as well as going forward.

When all is said and done, it is the offseason and as such all we have to occupy us right now is babbling about past stuff like this. It's not like SU is going to lose the hardcore folks like us, so we might as well yak about Dino, OL's, QB's,WRs, etc. until we have something more concrete to discuss.
 
Last edited:
Year/HCSRSSoSRecordBest Win
2010 Marrone1.30-2.16 (#85)8-5#20 WVU
2017 Babers1.965.80 (#19)4-8#2 Clemson

4-8 vs the 19th ranked schedule with a win over Clemson is better than 8-5 vs the #85th ranked schedule

Why should Marrone get credit for 8-5 and Babers get dinged for 4-8?
Winning record and Bowl game vs losing record. It’s pretty straightforward.
Babers gets credit for the Clemson win and the momentum it created, for the season less so. You have to win the games on your schedule. Comparing to previous seasons and strength of schedules is irrelevant to our current situation. That is not the standard that Wildhack will hold Babers accountable to. All of us or almost all of us like Dino and want him to succeed for both himself and the school, but at the P5 level it’s ultimately about winning. Win 5 games this years and Babers is safe. Win only 4 then Wildhack will have to make a tough decision; stay the course or do another reset. I think he stays the course.
 
The amount of players who came back for an extra year, including the players who were opting out shows the opposite. I think (my wife works at a college) that students on the whole got jerked around by college administrators enough that there was a lack of trust institutionally with a portion of the student bodies everywhere. Not sure it's indicative of anything deeper.
Doesn’t mean there wasn’t initial distrust. Coaches did a good job of regaining their trust and belief in them. Especially after the season.
 
New HC Tim Albin will have his imprint all over the offense. I expect a few new plays but no wholesale changes. He is kinda similar to Scott Shafer but an offense version.

I expect things will be like what they showed in the three games in 2020. It sounds like Coach Solich will be close by to help the transition.


I now lean that Cuse has a 70% chance of winning. I think Ohio players and fans will be jacked for the opener. We'll get their best shot.

Our DL is mature and their OL looks above MAC average but not to a large degree. (2nd team TE, 3rd team OG). Their defense looks at best MAC average. Steele however picks them to finish at or near the top of the MAC east. Likely going off the abilities of Coach Solich.


As Money said, RB Tuggle is the key. We hold him to under 125 yards and don't allow him to run back kickoffs and punts then we should win.

I'm thinking 27-21 Cuse.

With Tuggle scoring a rushing TD and a TD return to keep it close.

This game will prep us for Rutgers...and allows us to defeat them in week 2.

Not a lot of Ohio on that all MAC 4 deep. Stop the RB, maybe the TE, and score at will on their D.
 
Not a lot of Ohio on that all MAC 4 deep. Stop the RB, maybe the TE, and score at will on their D.
thought the same thing.

theres some keys there, take care of business and we good.
 
of course.

but he was also trying to bring in SOS into the overall record, but when you lose all of them, it totally negates it.

Marrone won some 'swing' games, Dino lost them all but pitt...and lost to a low level G5.

Marrone had the better year.

by far.
Ok lol.

SRS takes into account point differential, ie how you performed vs the tougher schedule.

Marrone's 2nd season SOS was the weakest since 1954.

Not totally negated. Point stands - using w/l record without SOS is a lame and inferior way to quantify head coaches
 
Winning record and Bowl game vs losing record. It’s pretty straightforward.
Babers gets credit for the Clemson win and the momentum it created, for the season less so. You have to win the games on your schedule. Comparing to previous seasons and strength of schedules is irrelevant to our current situation. That is not the standard that Wildhack will hold Babers accountable to. All of us or almost all of us like Dino and want him to succeed for both himself and the school, but at the P5 level it’s ultimately about winning. Win 5 games this years and Babers is safe. Win only 4 then Wildhack will have to make a tough decision; stay the course or do another reset. I think he stays the course.
If you look at that chart and that's your takeaway, re-read the thing.

How you play in losses can tell a better story that winning vs FCS teams, agreed?
 
I'm thinking 27-21 Cuse.

I'm sort of close to the same number, Mark. I think we can hold them to the teens but I think (first game and all) that we will be a bit rusty getting the offense back to firing on all (or at least a few more) cylinders. I'm going to be optimistic and say 24-15.

I will say that it offends me as an SU fan that we even have to worry about this OOC slate, but as long as we can get through it that's all that matters.

The thing I will be looking for is how heavily Dino goes to the running game. We should have a good stable of RBs, and an improved OL. I expect Dino to try clearing the cobwebs and re-establishing better offensive balance right out of the gate.
 

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