Ohio coach Frank Solich retires

[syrBossHogg]

This thread has gone in a bunch of different directions lol.

But to talk about the week 1 matchup, I feel good about this game after reading more about Ohio. They have a lot of players returning, but they lose their starting C from last year on offense and they weren't a dynamic passing team these past two years. Shutting down the RB will be the key, and we have our entire front six + additional depth returning.

On defense they lose their best DE and are questionable when it comes to pass rush, not to mention they look a bit undersized overall. This will be a game where the offense simply needs to run the ball down their throat with improved blocking and good playcalling.

Hopefully I didn't jinx us but that should be the general gameplan.

 

[TexanMark]

We have got to start scoring more points than that, or we are going to have another long season.

Hope vs Reality

Until proven otherwise I say under 30

 

[TheCusian]

FWIW, our SOS in 2018 was 57th. In 2019 it was 73rd. Makes our 5 win season all the more damning.

Agreed. That’s *exactly* what I mean

 

[IthacaMatt]

Hope vs Reality

Until proven otherwise I say under 30

I'm not arguing with you; you may be right.
Running teams can win scoring fewer points by eating up clock with ball control. That's Marrone's approach and Pasqualoni's, as well. Traditional football.

But I'm seeing some really high scores out there, these past few years. There is some crazy offense in college football, and "modern" teams really need to average scoring in the mid-30s if they expect to have a winning record. Offenses are just too explosive now.

 

[TheCusian]

Nah, you are using strength of schedule as a denial mechanism. Just accept where we are, you will probably feel better and be able to run faster and jump higher.
Trying to put some great weight on comparing 3 years ago to 10 years ago is just a dodge to what has actually happened the last 2 years.

We left the Big East primarily for more conference money and stability, not so we could be happy with 4-8.

If you are Wake Forest you should be planning to win against Syracuse regardless of the year to year variation in how good we are. And that’s a one game anectdote involving your asterisk team, not relevant to your claim 4-8 is better than 8-5.

You are wasting your time trying to snow me, I am not the one you need to convince. You should be trying to convince Wildhack that even though our record the last 5 years is 24 and 36 it’s really equivalent to 27 and 23 (throw out last year and substitute 8-5 for 4-8).

I'm not trying to snow you lol. I'm trying to help you get past the wins and losses as equal thing. Seasons are not equal strength. If we played all FCS teams one year and all SEC teams the next, our record would be 12-0 and 2-10 (if we're lucky). The same team! We gotta retain a 12-0 coach and fire the guy with 2 wins!

Wake Forest is not some great juggernaut first off. The should prob respect us every year, just like us with them. The point is the 2018 team was really good and the 2019 was bad. One year we're a good win for Clemson the next year we hurt their resume.

If you've read anything I've written in the last 3 months you know I'm not dodging the truth about 2019. Easiest schedule Dino has played and 5 wins was a joke of a result coming off of 10 the year before. I've also maintained that 2020 is complicated. It might be indicative of a complete collapse like it signaled with Gerg's 1-10 - but who knows given all the other footnotes and asterisks for that weird season.

Conference money and stability, yes. And to compete. If we want to do that we'd better be clear eyed about where we are and how far we are from the goal. That's why you look at SoS, etc. It's clarifying and I'm trying to help you not be snowed by gulping down w/l record as the best indicator of quality. It's not.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What's odder is that those same people laughed at Addazio when he was at BC for being .500

I laugh at Addazio. No regrets, I'm not sorry.

The Dazzler is a prototype meathead coach.

 

[orangencpolice]

I have been watching SU football since the mid 80s, so I have seen some pretty embarrassing losses(too many to mention with GROB, lots under PP his last few years, 2013 vs G Tech etc) but Maryland 2019 is to me the worst loss we have had, because of how badly we lost to a crap team and what the stakes were in that game.

I agree. I was angry for days after that game. The last loss second to that one was losing to the Akron Zips in 2008 28-42. The Grob era was pretty depressing.

 

[Scooch]

It's clarifying and I'm trying to help you not be snowed by gulping down w/l record as the best indicator of quality. It's not.

It's not... for a while... to a point... then it is.

Like, going 4-8 one year against a very difficult schedule may mask program health, improvement, etc. However, going 4-8 for four years against similarly difficult schedules might mean that opposition is simply the way it is, and a program needs to be better to achieve a winning record against it.

Generally speaking, SU's schedule is pretty static. We play the same 7 opponents every year. Sure, those team's quality varies, but its the same 7 programs. We tend to play 1 FCS, and 1 FBS mid-major -- sure, Liberty may be better than UConn, but neither is Clemson.

SU's SOS over the past few years has been in a narrow range:

2018: 57
2019: 73
2020: 49

I can't imagine this year's is going to be top 50, given our OOC slate and the general meh-ness of the ACC.

So while your point about using SOS as a comparison to past seasons is valid, I'm not sure it means much for the current state of our program. Dino's last few schedules have been very manageable (credit to JW for that), and it doesn't appear 2021 or 2022 will be any more difficult. Schedule should neither be a "reason" nor an "excuse" for how we perform in the immediate future.

 

[orangepassion]

I laugh at Addazio. No regrets, I'm not sorry.

The Dazzler is a prototype meathead coach.

Agree, but his record was significantly better than Dino

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Agree, but his record was significantly better than Dino

There's no argument there. It's true.

I don't really care though. We have no chance of accomplishing much as a program if we go back to meathead football.

 

[Chip]

Totally agree. Once the stench of bottom-feeder gets associated with your program, it is hard to get it off. Recruiting gets much harder and the whole thing becomes self-perpetuating. Not saying we are there currently but we are close enough that Dino needs to remove any trace of heat with a solid year.

I have said this before , but as a "vintage" alumnus/lifelong fan (which sounds better than "old") I sometimes repeat myself:

Wildhack has specific metrics for Dino and I bet they are very high level. As a retired executive with significant commercial responsibility, mine were always high level and specific. There was room for gray area and rationalization, but not a lot and not something to fall back on year after year. The management team that reported to me was treated much the same.

Wildhack is not going to go down with a ship that he didn't hire. He also is not going to spend one second lacking confidence in his ability to replace someone whom he feels is under-performing with someone who can do a better job.

Putting all that aside as hopefully something that we won't even need to address, we all like Dino. He is a likable guy. I am neutral on everything related to his aggregate performance to date. The 10-win season bought a significant Get Out of Jail Free card, but one with an expiration date. I'm not off the Dino bandwagon, but I am hanging over the side. I want him to succeed though and can't wait for what hopefully will be a turnaround season.

Agree with all of this.

I also think, to put it bluntly, Dino needs to find his balls again. Attack the other team, that’s his nature. Go fast, keep them guessing, win back his swagger.

If you start playing try not to lose football, this job will eat you up. He had a bit of an X factor and needs to go back to it. If that requires a QB change, so be it.

 

[orange44]

Agree with all of this.

I also think, to put it bluntly, Dino needs to find his balls again. Attack the other team, that’s his nature. Go fast, keep them guessing, win back his swagger.

If you start playing try not to lose football, this job will eat you up. He had a bit of an X factor and needs to go back to it. If that requires a QB change, so be it.

Totally agree!!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Agree with all of this.

I also think, to put it bluntly, Dino needs to find his balls again. Attack the other team, that’s his nature. Go fast, keep them guessing, win back his swagger.

If you start playing try not to lose football, this job will eat you up. He had a bit of an X factor and needs to go back to it. If that requires a QB change, so be it.

Yeah, Dino turtled up a bit coming off the big season. We went from the hunter to hunted real fast.

 

[Scooch]

Agree with all of this.

I also think, to put it bluntly, Dino needs to find his balls again. Attack the other team, that’s his nature. Go fast, keep them guessing, win back his swagger.

If you start playing try not to lose football, this job will eat you up. He had a bit of an X factor and needs to go back to it. If that requires a QB change, so be it.

Dino's demeanor in the off-season leading into 2019 reminded me of Marrone's leading into 2011. It really seemed like the pressure of expectations got to them. Neither of them are dummies, and I suspect they knew that their respective teams were overrated due to the past season's performance. They saw all the flaws and knew how difficult it'd be to overcome them. Still, it seemed to eat them up and there was clearly a cloud over each.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah, Dino turtled up a bit coming off the big season. We went from the hunter to hunted real fast.

Was it the HC or the team leadership? Dungey had swagger and was fearless. Without leadership it isn't hard to see why we turtled up and were hesitant.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Was it the HC or the team leadership? Dungey had swagger and was fearless. Without leadership it isn't hard to see why we turtled up and were hesitant.

That's a fair point. I'd say a little of column a and a little of column b. It did seem we had some real leadership gaps.

Since the big year though Dino just hasn't seemed the same, both in terms of demeanor and game approach.

It's weird.

 

[Scooch]

That's a fair point. I'd say a little of column a and a little of column b. It did seem we had some real leadership gaps.

Since the big year though Dino just hasn't seemed the same, both in terms of demeanor and game approach.

It's weird.

It's hard to coach with swagger when you're afraid of your starting QB.

Just sayin'.

 

[syrBossHogg]

These past two seasons haven definitely felt more like GRob/Shafer years instead of 2016-18. Hopefully with these new coaches coming + more upper classmen in the starting lineup w/ better depth, we will improve on offense and start playing more aggressive and confident again.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's hard to coach with swagger when you're afraid of your starting QB.

Just sayin'.

Eh. Cowardly coaching if so.

 

[SUskibum]

Was it the HC or the team leadership? Dungey had swagger and was fearless. Without leadership it isn't hard to see why we turtled up and were hesitant.

Benching your senior starting QB, arguably the best Syracuse QB in 20 years, to play the rookie gunslinger with 2 possessions left in a 7 point game is pretty gutsy. Then you have that kid coming in spraying the ball all over the field like he’s Brett Favre. This is at a point in the season where we EASILY could have reverted back to our 4 win type seasons.

DFB was a gunslinger at BG and EI also. 2019 and 2020 are the outlier for his style going gunshy. I too hope he rekindles his attacking ’mojo’.

 

[TheCusian]

It's not... for a while... to a point... then it is.

Like, going 4-8 one year against a very difficult schedule may mask program health, improvement, etc. However, going 4-8 for four years against similarly difficult schedules might mean that opposition is simply the way it is, and a program needs to be better to achieve a winning record against it.

Generally speaking, SU's schedule is pretty static. We play the same 7 opponents every year. Sure, those team's quality varies, but its the same 7 programs. We tend to play 1 FCS, and 1 FBS mid-major -- sure, Liberty may be better than UConn, but neither is Clemson.

SU's SOS over the past few years has been in a narrow range:

2018: 57
2019: 73
2020: 49

I can't imagine this year's is going to be top 50, given our OOC slate and the general meh-ness of the ACC.

So while your point about using SOS as a comparison to past seasons is valid, I'm not sure it means much for the current state of our program. Dino's last few schedules have been very manageable (credit to JW for that), and it doesn't appear 2021 or 2022 will be any more difficult. Schedule should neither be a "reason" nor an "excuse" for how we perform in the immediate future.

Where are you getting your SOS numbers from?

The ACC, especially our division, was one of the toughest when Dino started and it’s been meh the last three (though playing all ACC+Liberty last year changed things a bit). There’s a fair amount of variation year to year - enough that it’s imperative that we take it into account.

I agree that it’s been easier since 2018, which makes 2019 and 2020 a bit harder to swallow. I’ve been up front about that, no? And if it stays that way, I agree with your final point.

Last note - I was using those SoS numbers primarily to combat the narrative that “he’s only had one winning season here” narrative. And that point still stands. 2016 and 2017 were far more challenging than typical and we had 4 wins. To your broader point, if the SOS stays manageable and we still crater? He’s got to go.

 

[TheCusian]

That's a fair point. I'd say a little of column a and a little of column b. It did seem we had some real leadership gaps.

Since the big year though Dino just hasn't seemed the same, both in terms of demeanor and game approach.

It's weird.

Still think he thought he was going to USC. Didn’t pan out, 2019 was a windless ship. 2020 was the “if I’m here I gotta shake it up with new coordinators and get winning again”

 

[djorange1989]

Dino's demeanor in the off-season leading into 2019 reminded me of Marrone's leading into 2011. It really seemed like the pressure of expectations got to them. Neither of them are dummies, and I suspect they knew that their respective teams were overrated due to the past season's performance. They saw all the flaws and knew how difficult it'd be to overcome them. Still, it seemed to eat them up and there was clearly a cloud over each.

Dead on. I said often during the 2019 season that they reminded me of the 2011 team in so many ways. Definitely the coaches demeanors.

 

[kcsu]

Still think he thought he was going to USC. Didn’t pan out, 2019 was a windless ship. 2020 was the “if I’m here I gotta shake it up with new coordinators and get winning again”

So true. He was out the door but every opportunity dried up and he stayed. If he turns it around he might stay because of his age but I don't see it.

 

[tipphill]

Agree with all of this.

I also think, to put it bluntly, Dino needs to find his balls again. Attack the other team, that’s his nature. Go fast, keep them guessing, win back his swagger.

If you start playing try not to lose football, this job will eat you up. He had a bit of an X factor and needs to go back to it. If that requires a QB change, so be it.

play smart, COACH smart. play the offense that Matches your talent. do not try to fit a square peg into a round hole.