@Oklahoma

[IthacaMatt]

Well I was speaking broadly, I really meant 20-25K SU fans. Maybe half of that would be actual tri-state alums. Rest would be CNYers down for the game, and fans from New England and Philly/DC corridor. Although make no mistake, there WILL be that many SU fans there. Maybe more.

Anyway, getting hung up on that # is really not the point. The point is that SU is getting paid a handsome appearance fee to play there. I assume we'll get a cut of the total gate as well. Couple that with the fact that I imagine Cantor & Gross will use it as a means to wine & dine deep-pocketed potential donors, then that's all part of the rationale for having a game there.

Look, I told you I sympathize with CNYers who are pissed about marquee games being moved out of the Dome. I'm not as quick to dismiss the notion that some teams would "never" come to Syracuse, although I do suspect some won't (of course some always won't, that's not a new phenomena). But this is a delicate balancing act that Gross & Cantor are trying to pull off. SU simply does not have the financial resources to compete with most other BCS programs. Joining the ACC will help. Apparently they feel having games in NYC will help. Others have made the most relevant point, if the Dome was full every Saturday then this wouldn't need to be a consideration. But it's not. I'm not blaming anyone for that, but the fact is that's its not. So they gotta make the best of a difficult situation.

If you want a full Dome, then schedule a team like Oklahoma, or USC, or Notre Dame as part of the season ticket package, and let's get rid of all these sheet games that we've had as part of the Big Whatever.

 

[Scooch]

If you want a full Dome, then schedule a team like Oklahoma, or USC, or Notre Dame as part of the season ticket package, and let's get rid of all these sheet games that we've had as part of the Big Whatever.

Full Dome?

You mean like when we scheduled Auburn in 2001 and drew 43K?

Or when we played UNC in 2002 and drew 39K?

Or Florida State in 2004 when we drew 40K?

Or Virginia in 2005... 40K?

Or Iowa in 2006... 37K?

Or Penn State in 2008... 46K?

I mean I'm willing to concede that I don't "expect" the Dome to be packed given how generally mediocre-to-crappy we've been over the past decade. But SU has had a bunch of name opponents come through the Dome since the McNabb glory days, and we've never come within a few thousand of a "full house".

BTW, Oklahoma in 1994, didn't sell out. 48K. Full-ish house, but not full.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Full Dome?

You mean like when we scheduled Auburn in 2001 and drew 43K?

Or when we played UNC in 2002 and drew 39K?

Or Florida State in 2004 when we drew 40K?

Or Virginia in 2005... 40K?

Or Iowa in 2006... 37K?

Or Penn State in 2008... 46K?

I mean I'm willing to concede that I don't "expect" the Dome to be packed given how generally mediocre-to-crappy we've been over the past decade. But SU has had a bunch of name opponents come through the Dome since the McNabb glory days, and we've never come within a few thousand of a "full house".

BTW, Oklahoma in 1994, didn't sell out. 48K. Full-ish house, but not full.

Y0u know, 40,000+ in the Dome is not bad. Sure, it's not a sell out. But there have been games there in the last few years where we were lucky if half that many people were in the stands.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

If it happens, I like it. Get's us some exposure. It's a no lose situation. If we win we get big time exposure, if we lose no one will bat an eyelash. Hopefully the return game is in Syracuse.

 

[cusestudent]

Y0u know, 40,000+ in the Dome is not bad. Sure, it's not a sell out. But there have been games there in the last few years where we were lucky if half that many people were in the stands.

The Dome would have a good turnout, but it would never bring in even close to the amount of money the Meadowlands deal. SU is a private school, which means it's a business first moreso than the big state schools. I hate seeing it be all about the money, but a lot of it is about money.

 

[Scooch]

Y0u know, 40,000+ in the Dome is not bad. Sure, it's not a sell out. But there have been games there in the last few years where we were lucky if half that many people were in the stands.

Well at least you're not moving the goalposts.

I think it's best if we play our marquee games in the Dome. But if we play some in NYC, to quote Chris Rock, "I understand".

 

[SUinNYC]

They played at the Dome 18 years ago. They won't come back if the payday isn't worth it.

Wow. I was at that game. As an undergrad. When did I get old?

 

[Chip]

Wow. I was at that game. As an undergrad. When did I get old?

Me too. First senior year. I got old before I graduated.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

BREAKING: Garcia now reporting that Oklahoma isn't happening.

Nothing more to see here. Keep moving.

 

[IHeartSUFball]

where you see this

 

[kcsu]

I hope that we dont play OU this year. I know we always want to play the best but we are in a rebuilding mode and the last thing we need is OU USC and Two Big Ten teams on our schedule. If we do in fact play OU and i were gross i would be looking to give Doug an extension if he gets to 5-6 wins vs 6-7

 

[IthacaMatt]

The Dome would have a good turnout, but it would never bring in even close to the amount of money the Meadowlands deal. SU is a private school, which means it's a business first moreso than the big state schools. I hate seeing it be all about the money, but a lot of it is about money.

Well, by that logic, we should move all our games to the Meadowlands, then, right ? If you ever do want to build the fan base back up, you don't do it by moving all your best games to NYC.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Well at least you're not moving the goalposts.

I think it's best if we play our marquee games in the Dome. But if we play some in NYC, to quote Chris Rock, "I understand".

Well, if we never sold out during the McNabb years, then regular sellouts are unlikely, right. And you HAVE been to the nearly empty Dome for some games in the recent past, right ? Didn't I originally say "fill the Dome" ? You don't have to be so literal, as if anything less than 49,900 means that it wasn't worth bringing the big name team to town in the first place.

 

[cusestudent]

Well, by that logic, we should move all our games to the Meadowlands, then, right ? If you ever do want to build the fan base back up, you don't do it by moving all your best games to NYC.

You're missing my point, I'm not advocating them moving all of the big games to NYC. Simply from a business standpoint it makes sense to play games there for the money. We are in dire need of facility upgrades and Gross knows this, so what does he do? Schedule big name teams at the Dome and make 700k with 45k people there or go to NYC make 2M plus and have 50-60k people there? In order to be competitive we need the money to get state of the art facilities, and we're not getting state funding. Once we get the money for the facilities then we can get the big name teams back to the Dome. That seems to be Gross' logic in this, and I agree with the logic

 

[IthacaMatt]

You're missing my point, I'm not advocating them moving all of the big games to NYC. Simply from a business standpoint it makes sense to play games there for the money. We are in dire need of facility upgrades and Gross knows this, so what does he do? Schedule big name teams at the Dome and make 700k with 45k people there or go to NYC make 2M plus and have 50-60k people there? In order to be competitive we need the money to get state of the art facilities, and we're not getting state funding. Once we get the money for the facilities then we can get the big name teams back to the Dome. That seems to be Gross' logic in this, and I agree with the logic

See, I think this is hogwash. How much more do we make by having a game in the Meadowlands that draws 45,000 vs. a game in the Dome that draws 40,000? We get to keep the concessions in the Dome. We likely sell more season tickets because of that marquee opponent. The game will still be on TV, if it's a big time opponent. We are going to be making $10M more a year from the ACC television contracts. How much possible difference could we earn (not in terms of publicity) from having a game in NYC/NJ rather than at the Dome ?

 

[cusestudent]

My guess is going to be through getting a cut of the ticket sales, the contractually amount (I don't know how much that is), plus a big cut of the ad money, we also save money by not having to pay staff or pay for concessions. I don't know what it would come out to, but my guess is that it would be significantly higher. I'm not sure but wouldn't we get a payout from one of the networks like ESPN if they cover the game since it's non-conf?

 

[rrlbees]

You're missing my point, I'm not advocating them moving all of the big games to NYC. Simply from a business standpoint it makes sense to play games there for the money. We are in dire need of facility upgrades and Gross knows this, so what does he do? Schedule big name teams at the Dome and make 700k with 45k people there or go to NYC make 2M plus and have 50-60k people there? In order to be competitive we need the money to get state of the art facilities, and we're not getting state funding. Once we get the money for the facilities then we can get the big name teams back to the Dome. That seems to be Gross' logic in this, and I agree with the logic

Yes, it will be nice money for SU. You realize though that they are moving 14 games over the next 2 decades right? Not just a few near term games. And we won't be playing Buffalo in the Meadowlands, so you can assume 14 of the biggest OOC games will be moved. Hopefully, you also realize that while a program needs $$$$, it also needs fans. It's a delicate balancing act that based upon every action SU has taken, is slanted against fans. So I would expect that you, as well as some others, won't be complaining if the number of fans in the Dome doesn't increase and won't complain when recruits visit and see a 1/2 empty Dome and decide that is a negative. People can't have it both ways and yet some here want that.

 

[OttoForLife]

Yes, it will be nice money for SU. You realize though that they are moving 14 games over the next 2 decades right? Not just a few near term games. And we won't be playing Buffalo in the Meadowlands, so you can assume 14 of the biggest OOC games will be moved. Hopefully, you also realize that while a program needs $$$$, it also needs fans. It's a delicate balancing act that based upon every action SU has taken, is slanted against fans. So I would expect that you, as well as some others, won't be complaining if the number of fans in the Dome doesn't increase and won't complain when recruits visit and see a 1/2 empty Dome and decide that is a negative. People can't have it both ways and yet some here want that.

Also, while it's nice to tell and sometimes show recruits that we play at Met Life, the fact remains that the majority of a recruits interaction (i.e the official visit) happens on campus. Unless the plan is to host recruits at the Dome while watching the game being played in NJ on the big screen, we better find a way to get fans into the Dome.

 

[Chip]

Yes, it will be nice money for SU. You realize though that they are moving 14 games over the next 2 decades right? Not just a few near term games. And we won't be playing Buffalo in the Meadowlands, so you can assume 14 of the biggest OOC games will be moved. Hopefully, you also realize that while a program needs $$$$, it also needs fans. It's a delicate balancing act that based upon every action SU has taken, is slanted against fans. So I would expect that you, as well as some others, won't be complaining if the number of fans in the Dome doesn't increase and won't complain when recruits visit and see a 1/2 empty Dome and decide that is a negative. People can't have it both ways and yet some here want that.

For the record, I think we're probably committing to too many games there if those games are going to be more like the USC/ND model and less like the Penn State model (where a Dome trip is part of the deal). But then again, I'm no Athletic Director and do not have access to the #s or the reasons beyond the #'s.

Best solution, to me, for playing any heavyweights outside the NYC area (using OU as an example only) would be a 4 game series. 1 @ OU, 1 @ Jerryworld, or pro stadium of OUs choice, 1 @ NYC, 1 @ Dome. The problem could be what's the advantage for OU to play at Jerryworld instead of OU, closer game for their alumni perhaps. But if that doesn't work out, maybe worst case could be 2 @ OU, 1 @ NYC, 1 @ Carrier Dome, might end up being the best compromise.

 

[Scooch]

Well, if we never sold out during the McNabb years, then regular sellouts are unlikely, right. And you HAVE been to the nearly empty Dome for some games in the recent past, right ? Didn't I originally say "fill the Dome" ? You don't have to be so literal, as if anything less than 49,900 means that it wasn't worth bringing the big name team to town in the first place.

Matt, I get what you're saying, I do. There's just no evidence to support your points. We brought Florida State to the Dome in 2004, when at the very least SU was still competitive, and we got 40K. That's just not moving the needle. Season tickets also declined that year from 2003. Gross is not an idiot, he sees this data and knows that even if we put Oklahoma on the Dome schedule the turnout and season ticket sales won't get a huge bump.

We'll be in the ACC. We'll get Florida State and Clemson on the home schedule, I assume in alternating years. We'll get either Miami or Virgina Tech in the Dome 2 out of every 3 years. There's going to be a "marquee" game or two on our home schedule every year going forward, no matter who we're playing OOC.

I would prefer to see big time OOC opponents play in the Dome. I just understand why Gross cut the deal that he did.

 

[ImperialOrange]

You're missing my point, I'm not advocating them moving all of the big games to NYC. Simply from a business standpoint it makes sense to play games there for the money. We are in dire need of facility upgrades and Gross knows this, so what does he do? Schedule big name teams at the Dome and make 700k with 45k people there or go to NYC make 2M plus and have 50-60k people there? In order to be competitive we need the money to get state of the art facilities, and we're not getting state funding. Once we get the money for the facilities then we can get the big name teams back to the Dome. That seems to be Gross' logic in this, and I agree with the logic

Is the bonus for this game $1 million or $2 million? I lost track of the exact figure but if that money is all dumped back into a new practice facility we, as fans, should be ecstatic. To get better players we need better facilities. When the program gets back to respectability we will be able to get more big names back in the dome. As of now, there is no draw for a big time program to come to the dome and drop their SOS win or lose when they can travel much shorter distances and play a team ranked similar. Penn State did well by us in respecting the NE roots and playing us at the Dome as part of the series but ND coming to the Dome at this point was a likely nonflyer.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We'll get either Miami or Virgina Tech in the Dome 2 out of every 3 years.

Actually, we'll play either Miami or Va Tech 2 out of every 3 years, we'll get them in the Dome 2 out of every 6.

 

[rrlbees]

For the record, I think we're probably committing to too many games there if those games are going to be more like the USC/ND model and less like the Penn State model (where a Dome trip is part of the deal). But then again, I'm no Athletic Director and do not have access to the #s or the reasons beyond the #'s.

Best solution, to me, for playing any heavyweights outside the NYC area (using OU as an example only) would be a 4 game series. 1 @ OU, 1 @ Jerryworld, or pro stadium of OUs choice, 1 @ NYC, 1 @ Dome. The problem could be what's the advantage for OU to play at Jerryworld instead of OU, closer game for their alumni perhaps. But if that doesn't work out, maybe worst case could be 2 @ OU, 1 @ NYC, 1 @ Carrier Dome, might end up being the best compromise.

To be clear, I have zero problem with a 1-1-1 arrangement. For certain teams, I may not even have a problem with a 2-1-1. I do have a problem with the 1-0-1 and 2-0-2 type arrangements.

 

[Scooch]

Actually, we'll play either Miami or Va Tech 2 out of every 3 years, we'll get them in the Dome 2 out of every 6.

Thanks for the clarification.

I'll take that over USF and Cincy every other year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Screw the 10K that come out to see "name" teams and don't show for the rest of the schedule.

:bang: :bang::bang:

That doesn't help.