Orange Reputation in the ACC: "mediocre at best"

[SoBeCuse]

I don’t know. Flynn and McNamara played heavy minutes as well. This isn’t a recent development.

Ennis/Cooney did too. Then Boeheim said (paraphrasing) at the end of the season that they played too many minutes and that they (the staff) don’t want to do that again. Then same thing with Silent G/Cooney. Ran them into the ground. I think they tried to fix things. Kaleb probably nobody saw coming how bad he would be. Silent G bailed the team out since Kaleb was unplayable. They probably thought Patterson would be a little better but he was bad too. BJ was another body we could’ve used in the rotation but we know how that played out. They went all in on Quade but that was a fail. Then Geno leaves. I don’t think the staff EVER envisioned Frank a 37 MPG player or whatever he is but here we are. It’s just a lot of bad luck and some bad decisions on some guards. Who knows if Kaleb would’ve done anything elsewhere at BC or Providence.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don’t know. Flynn and McNamara played heavy minutes as well. This isn’t a recent development.

True, though season ending injuries to Devendorf and Rautins in Flynn’s freshman year and then Scoop in his sophomore year were a big part of that.

 

[dasher]

I want to live in a world where the standard for mediocrity is “have you beaten Duke?”

Some of our friends in this conference never do. And I think there is a team in this conference that hasn't beat UNC at UNC in my lifetime. And I'm old

 

[Trueblue25]

Im pretty sure we have more final fours in the past 5 years (fair time window) than Duke. Granted they have the 2015 championship.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Some of our friends in this conference never do. And I think there is a team in this conference that hasn't beat UNC at UNC in my lifetime. And I'm old

Clemson

 

[tptcuse]

Who cares what they think...we just have to keep plugging away. Recruiting and end of sanctions point towards bright days ahead. Go Cuse!

 

[DoctorBombay]

There’s nothing remotely inaccurate about that article

This^^^
The article does qualify that after a quick start and finishing 2nd in the ACC, over the last 4 years we HAVE been mediocre...at best.
I agree, and it goes back to one of my biggest pet peeves with our HCJB- the insistence on a thin bench and running players into the ground.
It happens year after year, where developing a bench is like pulling teeth with him. He simply, in his heart of hearts does NOT think players will get tired at that age, and he's said so.
He has embraced a "win this game NOW, and damn the torpedoes" mentality, that more often then not ends up biting us come March.
Its just coaching gospel with this guy, and frustrating as he**! Again, not the only factor, but definitely a big one. JMHO

 

[orangecuse]

This^^^
The article does qualify that after a quick start and finishing 2nd in the ACC, over the last 4 years we HAVE been mediocre...at best.
I agree, and it goes back to one of my biggest pet peeves with our HCJB- the insistence on a thin bench and running players into the ground.
It happens year after year, where developing a bench is like pulling teeth with him. He simply, in his heart of hearts does NOT think players
get tired at that age, and he's said so. He has embraced a "win this game NOW, and damn the torpedoes" mentality, that more often then not ends up biting us come March.
Its just coaching gospel with this guy, and frustrating as he**! Again, not the only factor, but definitely a big one. JMHO

100% agree...1000 likes.

 

[Alsacs]

We have been Seton Hall of the old Big East since we have been in the ACC.

We need a full roster and depth to get to old Syracuse.

Notre Dame has been way more successful in the ACC basketball picture than we have.

 

[moqui]

since joining the conference:

• su has the 4th most wins (asterisk on that because louisville has one less season). uva, unc & duke rank 1-2-3
  
• one of only 4 programs to have finished .500 or better every year (along with the 3 above - and again * for ville
• one of only 3 acc schools to make a final four

and jb has kept it afloat with one hand tied behind his back due to sanctions.

all that being said, we're clearly on the 2nd tier behind uva, unc, duke & lville. not up to our - nor apparently the rest of the acc's - expectations, given this dukie article. but "mediocre at best" is just incorrect.

 

[CuseCPT]

I'm sure most ACC fans will freely admit they always thought the Big East was overrated. I know I have no problem admitting I used to think the ACC was overrated. The problem is, SU and Pitt haven't really been doing much to convince any of them otherwise since we came over.

Now I still think the Big East was better top to bottom than the ACC. However, I wouldn't blame any of the old school ACC fans for not believing that SU and Pitt are both down compared to the not too distant past. Why would they, it fits with their narrative, "see, i always knew they weren't that good!"

 

[tbonezone]

Seton Hall won the league twice and the BET twice in the early nineties.

 

[sdcuseguy]

Seton Hall won the league twice and the BET twice in the early nineties.

I think we have a .500 record or above record against Duke since we have been in the ACC, likely the only team to be .500 or above against them in that time span. However, the blue bloods will never give SU any credit until we are constantly in the top 3 or 4 in the league and likely not until we win the league outright.

 

[Bayside44]

I think we have a .500 record or above record against Duke since we have been in the ACC, likely the only team to be .500 or above against them in that time span. However, the blue bloods will never give SU any credit until we are constantly in the top 3 or 4 in the league and likely not until we win the league outright.

Just saw this stat on ESPN. In their last 100 games Duke and UNC are tied at 50 wins each. Duke ahead on point differential by 2. That’s pretty incredible.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think we have a .500 record or above record against Duke since we have been in the ACC, likely the only team to be .500 or above against them in that time span. However, the blue bloods will never give SU any credit until we are constantly in the top 3 or 4 in the league and likely not until we win the league outright.

If you want to highlight the duke wins that’s fine. But there’s another side of that coin that’s...ahhh, less good.

 

[moqui]

Notre Dame has been way more successful in the ACC basketball picture than we have.

incorrect

 

[Alsacs]

incorrect

They have won 1 more regular season win and they won the ACC tournament in 2016 and made the ACC tournament finals last year.
They have been more successful than we have.
We were 14-4 in 2014 since then we are 33-32 in ACC regular season games and 0-3 in the ACC tournament.

 

[Col. Bleep]

I think we have a .500 record or above record against Duke since we have been in the ACC, likely the only team to be .500 or above against them in that time span. However, the blue bloods will never give SU any credit until we are constantly in the top 3 or 4 in the league and likely not until we win the league outright.

The Orange are 3-3 with Duke since joining the ACC.
Four of the games were down to the wire great.
But the ACC is more than Duke.

The issue is that since 2015 whenever SU beats Duke or Virginia or a couple other teams... it's considered an upset.
In the Big East we expected to win every game against every team.
That's the attitude and supporting record that needs to be restored.

 

[two3zone]

I think we have a .500 record or above record against Duke since we have been in the ACC, likely the only team to be .500 or above against them in that time span. However, the blue bloods will never give SU any credit until we are constantly in the top 3 or 4 in the league and likely not until we win the league outright.

Well, it is our Superbowl.

 

[moqui]

They have won 1 more regular season win and they won the ACC tournament in 2016 and made the ACC tournament finals last year.
They have been more successful than we have.
We were 14-4 in 2014 since then we are 33-32 in ACC regular season games and 0-3 in the ACC tournament.

in acc play, we've been at or above .500 every year that has been completed, they have not.
we currently are tied in wins with them (47-36).
we have been to a final four.

they have not been more successful than su.

and here is a truism for future reference: if you have to throw out 25% of the available data in order to justify your conclusion, then your conclusion is crap

 

[Alsacs]

in acc play, we've been at or above .500 every year that has been completed, they have not.
we currently are tied in wins with them (47-36).
we have been to a final four.

they have not been more successful than su.

and here is a truism for future reference: if you have to throw out 25% of the available data in order to justify your conclusion, then your conclusion is crap

I said relevant in ACC play.
Not the NCAA tournament.
They have 2 Elite Eights and we have 1 Final Four in that time frame.
Our 2013 Final Four was in the Big East.

 

[dasher]

The Orange are 3-3 with Duke since joining the ACC.
Four of the games were down to the wire great.
But the ACC is more than Duke.

The issue is that since 2015 whenever SU beats Duke or Virginia or a couple other teams... it's considered an upset.
In the Big East we expected to win every game against every team.
That's the attitude and supporting record that needs to be restored.

Go back to the early 90's when we went on probation. We took a hit then. The only reason it wasn't worse is quite frankly, luck. Moten was 10X better than they thought he was when we got him and John Wallace was in our back yard and decided to stay home. But we rebounded from that and we will rebound from this.

 

[Trueblue25]

I said relevant in ACC play.
Not the NCAA tournament.
They have 2 Elite Eights and we have 1 Final Four in that time frame.
Our 2013 Final Four was in the Big East.

Was the ACC even represented in that final 4 I cant remember

 

[Alsacs]

Was the ACC even represented in that final 4 I cant remember

Louisville and Syracuse-Big East
Wichita State-Missouri Valley
Michigan-Big Ten.

 

[moqui]

I said relevant in ACC play.

you wrote that they have been "way more successful"
they have not been any more successful, let alone "way more"
incorrect.