Orange Reputation in the ACC: "mediocre at best"

[Trueblue25]

Louisville and Syracuse-Big East
Wichita State-Missouri Valley
Michigan-Big Ten.

Thank you.

I agree with everyone. By our own, and top 20 program’s, standards we’ve been mediocre.

I just love it coming from Duke though. Who A. Seems to have a lot of trouble vs this depthless mediocre program. And B. Squanders more talent than anyone outside the blue grass state.

 

[Alsacs]

you wrote that they have been "way more successful"
they have not been any more successful, let alone "way more"
incorrect.

They won the ACC tournament in 2016 beating Duke and UNC in Greensboro.

They reached the ACC Final last year.
We haven’t won a single ACC tournament game.
They have been way more relevant as a result. We have only contended 1 year in the regular season.
We have been mediocre.

 

[tbonezone]

when was the last time duke missed the tournament ? or were even considered "bubble" ?

(unc missed in 2003 and 2010 )

 

[Cusefan0307]

Honestly it’s a miracle we’ve been as good as we have been with the sanctions. Indiana won 6, 10, and 12 games under probation.

Bottom line is we looks better going forward than Pitt, Louisville, and Notre Dame.

 

[Sherman20]

I have been to every SU game played in the Dean Dome. The UNC fans that I have been exposed to during those games literally view Syracuse the same way SU fans used to view Seton Hall when we were in the Big East. Most of them honestly have no knowledge or regard for our team's history. We might has well be Clemson to them.

I haven’t had that experience at all. I have a friend who’s a UNC grad and lives in Carolina and she was psyched when we joined the ACC. She felt that SU’s presence would really help the ACC improve its then-dwindling basketball fortunes. (You do remember that the post-expansion Big East dominated the ACC in relevance and tourney bids for almost a decade.) She felt we had the best program outside of UNC and Duke and would be an immediate factor in the top of the conference. I’ve talked to other UNC fans who felt similarly. Not every Tar Heel is an idiot.

 

[tbonezone]

well the big east currently has 2 teams top 5 in the polls.
and the bottom team just took down duke.

 

[Sherman20]

A losing season is not “mediocre” a losing season is “bad.” I’m not sure what you’d call the results the last 3.75 seasons but “good” or “great” doesn’t come to mind. AtD I guess.

I don’t even know what to say about the second part of your last sentence.

I’m sorry, but I’m with JB on this. When you make the freakin Final Four, it’s not a mediocre season. I don’t know what kind of ridiculous irrational fan you have to be to think otherwise. There are of course different ways to measure success in CBB (regular season record, conference finish, and conference tourney are all important). But the NCAA tournament is ultimately the only thing that matters in the end, and we made it to the last weekend, the ultimate destination, in 2015-16. So you can take your 3.75 seasons of mediocrity and stick it where the sun don’t shine. I’m sick of people denigrating the Final Four season like it’s a miracle and doesn’t count.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I’m sorry, but I’m with JB on this. When you make the freakin Final Four, it’s not a mediocre season. I don’t know what kind of ridiculous irrational fan you have to be to think otherwise. There are of course different ways to measure success in CBB (regular season record, conference finish, and conference tourney are all important). But the NCAA tournament is ultimately the only thing that matters in the end, and we made it to the last weekend, the ultimate destination, in 2015-16. So you can take your 3.75 seasons of mediocrity and stick it where the sun don’t shine.

Nah. I’m good.

 

[kirbivore]

It's actually not. Trust me on that.

I agree. I sat across the aisle from the UNC elite level ticket holders that were behind the teams bench at the 2005 Dome regionals. The arrogance was palpable.

 

[Sherman20]

They won the ACC tournament in 2016 beating Duke and UNC in Greensboro.

They reached the ACC Final last year.
We haven’t won a single ACC tournament game.
They have been way more relevant as a result. We have only contended 1 year in the regular season.
We have been mediocre.

Sports are weird like that. Remember when Notre Lame had never played in a Big East tournament final—like ever? In their entire history in the conference. The farthest they ever got was the semis. Now they’ve played in two ACC tourney finals in two years. Bizarre.

 

[kirbivore]

when was the last time duke missed the tournament ? or were even considered "bubble" ?

(unc missed in 2003 and 2010 )

Duke last missed in 1995 aka Coach K's "bad back" season. Not really bubble but in 1996 they were an 8 seed.

 

[Bayside44]

I haven’t had that experience at all. I have a friend who’s a UNC grad and lives in Carolina and she was psyched when we joined the ACC. She felt that SU’s presence would really help the ACC improve its then-dwindling basketball fortunes. (You do remember that the post-expansion Big East dominated the ACC in relevance and tourney bids for almost a decade.) She felt we had the best program outside of UNC and Duke and would be an immediate factor in the top of the conference. I’ve talked to other UNC fans who felt similarly. Not every Tar Heel is an idiot.

Difference between that and the season ticket holder. Older more money and outside of hating Duke that’s the waters edge

 

[IthacaMatt]

Orange You Glad For A Bench?

"Mediocre" is not a word we should ever get used to.

Yeah, but the real point of the article is "Boeheim runs his guys into the ground."

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We have been Seton Hall of the old Big East since we have been in the ACC.

We need a full roster and depth to get to old Syracuse.

Notre Dame has been way more successful in the ACC basketball picture than we have.

We also have to play our damn guys if we expect them to get better. You cut your rotation down to 8 for conference season, and then down to 7 1/2 for the tournaments.

But from October to January, you really ought to be playing 9 -10 guys (even if it's just 5-10 minutes a game for the last 2 or 3 guys), just to see what you've got on your bench, and to give them some experience for the following year, when you'll need them to do more.

It's not just about winning the next game, it's about roster development, and maintaining continuity from year to year when so many damn players are leaving early. You have to give those back up guys 8-10 minutes in the pre-conference schedule, and then if they earned it, they stay in the rotation after the New Year. That's how most coaches do it, by the way.

 

[jgeorge322]

So are these going to mention weve lost 12 scholarships over 4 years. Im not sure people understand how big of a deal that is.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Sports are weird like that. Remember when Notre Lame had never played in a Big East tournament final—like ever? In their entire history in the conference. The farthest they ever got was the semis. Now they’ve played in two ACC tourney finals in two years. Bizarre.

True. But, we need to win an ACCT game ASAP. Just one! It is easy and valid to mock us for not winning an ACCT game since joining the conference. It only adds more ammunition.

 

[SBU72]

I want to live in a world where the standard for mediocrity is “have you beaten Duke?”

But then St. Johns wouldn't be mediocure. And if SU loses this year, they would be. Do u really want to live in that world!

 

[NineOneSeven]

I’m sorry, but I’m with JB on this. When you make the freakin Final Four, it’s not a mediocre season. I don’t know what kind of ridiculous irrational fan you have to be to think otherwise. There are of course different ways to measure success in CBB (regular season record, conference finish, and conference tourney are all important). But the NCAA tournament is ultimately the only thing that matters in the end, and we made it to the last weekend, the ultimate destination, in 2015-16. So you can take your 3.75 seasons of mediocrity and stick it where the sun don’t shine. I’m sick of people denigrating the Final Four season like it’s a miracle and doesn’t count.

This might surprise you, so feel free to sit down, but the NCAA tournament, a one and done elimination tournament, is far more of a crapshoot than most championship set-ups.

The last 3 years in the ACC we have finished 9-9, 9-9 (0-1 acct), and 10-8 (0-1 acct). Mediocrity is defined as not good, not bad. We are literally 28-28 against any other ACC team over the last 3 full seasons. That actually couldn't be more defined as mediocre.

If you want to argue the reasons for that (has been hashed out plenty of times, and rightly so), that's fine. Doesn't change the results, it simply tries to rationalize them. The final four two years ago absolutely counts- nonsense to think otherwise. SU losing to Butler in the S16- which imo we wouldn't have if the NCAAT was anything but a single elimination tournament- doesn't change the fact we were incredible all season. If MSU beats MTSU- which imo they would have if the NCAAT was anything but a single elimination tournament- and then beats us (big if of course, but we would have been big underdogs), would you call it an above average season? No you wouldn't, because it wasn't.

And you will never take that win over Virginia in the elite 8 away from me!!

 

[FrancoPizza]

Honestly it’s a miracle we’ve been as good as we have been with the sanctions..

Can we round up everyone behind the barn who thinks the sanctions were the primary reason for our downfall? It's about as honest and transparent as our "justification" for invading Iraq.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That’s weird. I didn’t mention the Final Four, and I STILL watch highlights of the UVA game on YouTube.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I’m sorry, but I’m with JB on this. When you make the freakin Final Four, it’s not a mediocre season. I don’t know what kind of ridiculous irrational fan you have to be to think otherwise. There are of course different ways to measure success in CBB (regular season record, conference finish, and conference tourney are all important). But the NCAA tournament is ultimately the only thing that matters in the end, and we made it to the last weekend, the ultimate destination, in 2015-16. So you can take your 3.75 seasons of mediocrity and stick it where the sun don’t shine. I’m sick of people denigrating the Final Four season like it’s a miracle and doesn’t count.

I think it is both. I don’t think anybody has denigrated it. It WAS improbable. 10 seeds don’t go to the F4. The seed is a representation of your body of work which was mediocre and has been mediocre. It is what it is. For sure the win was awesome. It made for a great end of the season and some momentum in March. But, have we been mediocre? Yes. If I honestly look at that team and the program in the past 3.5 years; I think “meh.” Not sure if that is too kind or not.

Boeheim has also contradicted himself on that issue. Either in the Albany offseason presser or the Wildhack/JB one immediately following the Hopkins leaving debacle (the one to stave off the circling buzzards); he lamented how difficult it is to make the tournament these days. He talked about how great those seasons were that UVA and MSU had and how they shouldn’t be forgotten because of an upset. It goes both ways.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Can we round up everyone behind the barn who thinks the sanctions were the primary reason for our downfall? It's about as honest and transparent as our "justification" for invading Iraq.

Is it the only reason no, but you’re an idiot if you don’t think it’s part of the reason. Go
look at every school that’s had the same issues prior to us.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

They won the ACC tournament in 2016 beating Duke and UNC in Greensboro.

They reached the ACC Final last year.
We haven’t won a single ACC tournament game.
They have been way more relevant as a result. We have only contended 1 year in the regular season.
We have been mediocre.

I'm with you. The thread title is about the reputation in the ACC. You said ACC. We had some outrageous help getting to the F4. Haven't won an ACC tourney game yet. Not exactly 'formidable' in conference.

 

[Fly Rodder]

So are these going to mention we've lost 12 scholarships over 4 years. Im not sure people understand how big of a deal that is.

A couple of things, 1) it was eight over four years. 2) And over those four years, JAB has had how many scholarship players on the roster? I think there were impacts, but, at the same time, Boeheim was so concerned about the lack of scholarships he brought in two(!) traditional transfers in that time and most seasons had fewer than 10 scholarship players on the roster:
14-15: 9 scholarships
15-16: 9 Scholarships + Chukwu sitting out a year
16-17: 9 Scholarships
17-18: 9 Scholarships + Hughes sitting out a year

Go back the last 20 years and JAB has had more than 11 scholarship players about twice. And the 11th guy wasn't anything special.

 

[orangecuse]

I’m sorry, but I’m with JB on this. When you make the freakin Final Four, it’s not a mediocre season. I don’t know what kind of ridiculous irrational fan you have to be to think otherwise. There are of course different ways to measure success in CBB (regular season record, conference finish, and conference tourney are all important). But the NCAA tournament is ultimately the only thing that matters in the end, and we made it to the last weekend, the ultimate destination, in 2015-16. So you can take your 3.75 seasons of mediocrity and stick it where the sun don’t shine. I’m sick of people denigrating the Final Four season like it’s a miracle and doesn’t count.