OT: Conference Realignment (Big Vote Next Week)

[SU68]

Really. I didn't realize Syracuse and WVU played so much before the Big East. Then that adds a third rivalry with WVU that could help the ACC. Then we have Miami and Boston College, who I assume has history with WVU from the Big East too.

I still think regional rivalries help make college sports fun.

The first SU - WVa game was in 1945.

 

[TexanMark]

That would be OK. You're moving Clemson and Syracuse into the Coastal and moving Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech into the Atlantic. We still will have all of the issues with 14 team scheduling though. Hopefully ND will decide to join at some point and we can get to 16 where there are easier scheduling models to play everyone more often.

I'm assuming for the crossover rivals with this you'll have UVA-VT, Syracuse-BC, and Louisville-Pittsburgh as changes. GT will keep Clemson. I think everyone would be good with that.

If Notre Dame waits forever...it looks like only Navy and Temple would be left.

 

[SmilinBob]

This vote reminds me of having the UN tell the USA how to run its business. No doubt the ACC should just rotate divisions each year to get somewhat... the results needed. Time to find lawyers/number crunchers and find the loophole needed. The Big 10 just wants to stop anything that could get ND in and the SEC doesn't want to screw up their current honey jar by having schools play a block schedule. The PAC has their lips squarely on the Big 10's arse.

 

[Btstimpy]

If Notre Dame waits forever...it looks like only Navy and Temple would be left.

I was impressed with how Temple did this year in football with Matt Rhule. If they can get the smaller stadium they have proposed built and in use like they want to, and they hold on to their coaching staff to build a program there, I'm not opposed to Temple. Philadelphia is right in the ACC footprint, and it's also a great town for college basketball. With Pittsburgh in the fold, Philadelphia would help with the other end of the state. But Temple needs to keep momentum with football.

Navy offers advantages in a different way. It's a national brand and is open to moving where they play home football games. That offers some opportunity.

 

[Hoo's That]

Another solution would be keeping the premise I had to start
Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
NC State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

and keep mixing up the other zippers every 2 years.
Florida State/Miami, Boston College/Syracuse, Louisville/Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech/Clemson

Year 1
Duke
UNC
UVA
FSU
BC
Louisville
Georgia Tech

Year 2
Duke
UNC
UVA
Miami
SU
Pitt
Clemson

Year 3
Duke
UNC
UVA
FSU
BC
Pitt
Clemson

Year 4
Duke
UNC
UVA
Miami
SU
Louisville
Georgia Tech

and the other division with the other 7 each year. This would basically be the 3+5+5 with divisions.

Like I said before, Alsacs is one of the gurus who sets the industry standard.

 

[WoadBlue]

Another solution would be keeping the premise I had to start
Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
NC State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

and keep mixing up the other zippers every 2 years.
Florida State/Miami, Boston College/Syracuse, Louisville/Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech/Clemson

Year 1
Duke
UNC
UVA
FSU
BC
Louisville
Georgia Tech

Year 2
Duke
UNC
UVA
Miami
SU
Pitt
Clemson

Year 3
Duke
UNC
UVA
FSU
BC
Pitt
Clemson

Year 4
Duke
UNC
UVA
Miami
SU
Louisville
Georgia Tech

and the other division with the other 7 each year. This would basically be the 3+5+5 with divisions.

That is an interesting idea, because it starts with the obvious, which many who do not know ACC history well ignore: there are some games that must be played annually or else there is a great risk the conference will come apart. If we have moveable division save for 3 i each division, as you have it, we have a good start toward becoming flexible. UNC-UVA is The South's Oldest Rivalry and must remain annual. UNC-Dook and UNC-MooU also must remain annual, as must MooU-Wake and UVA-VT. So, if we have the six permanent teams and they each have an annul cross-divisional rival (UNC-MooU, UVA-VT, Dook-Wake) we have knocked many of the required annual games.

Other games that are annual musts: FSU-Miami, FSU-Clemson, GT-Dook, GT-Clemson. I doubt any of those schools will go along with any change that would not keep the annual games they most want.

 

[Hoo's That]

That is an interesting idea, because it starts with the obvious, which many who do not know ACC history well ignore: there are some games that must be played annually or else there is a great risk the conference will come apart. If we have moveable division save for 3 i each division, as you have it, we have a good start toward becoming flexible. UNC-UVA is The South's Oldest Rivalry and must remain annual. UNC-Dook and UNC-MooU also must remain annual, as must MooU-Wake and UVA-VT. So, if we have the six permanent teams and they each have an annul cross-divisional rival (UNC-MooU, UVA-VT, Dook-Wake) we have knocked many of the required annual games.

Other games that are annual musts: FSU-Miami, FSU-Clemson, GT-Dook, GT-Clemson. I doubt any of those schools will go along with any change that would not keep the annual games they most want.

I think Clemson-FSU will be a victim of any realignment because it seems like Swofford is trying to set up a Clemson-FSU championship game, something that would require them to be in separate divisions given the other, older matchups they both seem to want to protect ahead of it.

 

[WoadBlue]

I think Clemson-FSU will be a victim of any realignment because it seems like Swofford is trying to set up a Clemson-FSU championship game, something that would require them to be in separate divisions given the other, older matchups they both seem to want to protect ahead of it.

And will ESPN be happy about FSU-Clemson not being annual? Nope.

 

[cuseguy]

And will ESPN be happy about FSU-Clemson not being annual? Nope.

ESPN isn't happy that SU and Duke basketball isn't annual at the Dome.

 

[WoadBlue]

ESPN isn't happy that SU and Duke basketball isn't annual at the Dome.

Basketball is a different animal. The ACC has a multitude of games that can be huge every year in terms of ranked teams with large fan bases. They all can't be annual Home-Away, which means ESPN does not care which ones are not Home-Away annually.

The ACC has only 3 football fan bases that are SEC-like in their size and intensity: FSU, Clemson, and VT. And only the first 2 have developed a killer rivalry. It has to remain an annual game because it is the biggest game we have.

 

[orange79]

ESPN isn't happy that SU and Duke basketball isn't annual at the Dome.

Basketball is a different animal. The ACC has a multitude of games that can be huge every year in terms of ranked teams with large fan bases. They all can't be annual Home-Away, which means ESPN does not care which ones are not Home-Away annually.

The ACC has only 3 football fan bases that are SEC-like in their size and intensity: FSU, Clemson, and VT. And only the first 2 have developed a killer rivalry. It has to remain an annual game because it is the biggest game we have.

And that's fine. But realize, cuseguy is in a position to know what ESPN is happy/unhappy about.

 

[NC'cusefan]

I'd think that UConn is 4th (at best) in line for a P5 spot (behind BYU, Houston, Cincinnati). I'd rather see the ACC take Cincy than UConn if it came to that.

I agree.

 

[All4SU]

I think Clemson-FSU will be a victim of any realignment because it seems like Swofford is trying to set up a Clemson-FSU championship game, something that would require them to be in separate divisions given the other, older matchups they both seem to want to protect ahead of it.

Syracuse has to play BC every year, Pitt would be second.

 

[orangefog]

Syracuse has to play BC every year, Pitt would be second.

I would have said "Pitt is #2", but whatever.

 

[WoadBlue]

And that's fine. But realize, cuseguy is in a position to know what ESPN is happy/unhappy about.

If ESPN wants Dook and Syracuse to play basketball Home-Away every year, ESPN will pay for it. If ESPN coughs up the right money, and an ACC network, the ACC will revamp basketball scheduling to bring it more into line with what ESPN wants to try to maximize northeastern TV interests. I do see how Dook-Cuse annually Home-Away could become a nasty beast, but arranging that will cost other teams something, which means to bring it to fruition, ESPN must pay the league.

As that is not happening and may not, ACC basketball will remain as is. Only 2 annual Home-Away rivals works well for getting everyone around the league well. Dook's 2 most obvious rivals are UNC (the biggest rivalry in the sport) and Wake.

 

[Bayside44]

If ESPN wants Dook and Syracuse to play basketball Home-Away every year, ESPN will pay for it. If ESPN coughs up the right money, and an ACC network, the ACC will revamp basketball scheduling to bring it more into line with what ESPN wants to try to maximize northeastern TV interests. I do see how Dook-Cuse annually Home-Away could become a nasty beast, but arranging that will cost other teams something, which means to bring it to fruition, ESPN must pay the league.

As that is not happening and may not, ACC basketball will remain as is. Only 2 annual Home-Away rivals works well for getting everyone around the league well. Dook's 2 most obvious rivals are UNC (the biggest rivalry in the sport) and Wake.

TV ratings say otherwise on Duke. Granted our first two games with them we were both top 5.

 

[Alsacs]

College hoops ratings aren't good. #1 Kansas-#2 Oklahoma 3OT game a 1.9 national rating.

The Liberty Bowl rating got a 4.4 national rating.


ESPN wants ACC football matchups that will increase ratings. While losing an annual Clemson-Florida State game would suck they would be getting annual Virginia Tech-Florida State, Virginia Tech-Louisville, Georgia Tech-Florida State, Clemson-Miami, Louisville-Georgia Tech matchups with the suggestion I made.

Also Clemson-Florida State would be a ratings gold mine in an ACC championship game.

 

[Hoo's That]

College hoops ratings aren't good. #1 Kansas-#2 Oklahoma 3OT game a 1.9 national rating.

The Liberty Bowl rating got a 4.4 national rating.


ESPN wants ACC football matchups that will increase ratings. While losing an annual Clemson-Florida State game would suck they would be getting annual Virginia Tech-Florida State, Virginia Tech-Louisville, Georgia Tech-Florida State, Clemson-Miami, Louisville-Georgia Tech matchups with the suggestion I made.

Also Clemson-Florida State would be a ratings gold mine in an ACC championship game.

Exactly. The way things look right now, ESPN would get a FSU-Clemson championship game pretty regularly. They have to decide which they would prefer, a highly rated game during the season or a highly rated game at the end of the season. Plus, the one at the end of the season probably will have higher ratings.

 

[Moontan]

The way things look right now, ESPN would get a FSU-Clemson championship game pretty regularly.

Ha.

Things were setup for a regular FSU-Miami championship game, remember?

 

[Alsacs]

Ha.

Things were setup for a regular FSU-Miami championship game, remember?

Your right but also when the 4 NC agreed to be split into 2 divisions part of that concession was 1 FL school would be in each division for recruiting purposes.

The ACC should split the VA schools as well as the Coastal teams get an annual VA game and the Atlantic rarely visits the Old Dominion commonwealth.

 

[TexanMark]

Your right but also when the 4 NC agreed to be split into 2 divisions part of that concession was 1 FL school would be in each division for recruiting purposes.

The ACC should split the VA schools as well as the Coastal teams get an annual VA game and the Atlantic rarely visits the Old Dominion commonwealth.

Your proposal above...how often do the those 3 team set pods play each other in your plan?

Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
NC State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

 

[Alsacs]

Your proposal above...how often do the those 3 team set pods play each other in your plan?

Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
NC State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

Good catch. I thought of that they would have to be part of the rotation. You will still play 2 teams from the other division each year even with division splits. So those teams would play in that rotation.

With 6 division matchups you would still play 2 teams from the other division.

 

[TexanMark]

Good catch. I thought of that they would have to be part of the rotation. You will still play 2 teams from the other division each year even with division splits. So those teams would play in that rotation.

With 6 division matchups you would still play 2 teams from the other division.

Can you edit your original explanation? I think we should bring this over to CSNBBS...obviously you can post or I'll give you the H/T.

 

[Alsacs]

Go ahead and take it I honestly wouldn't be offended.
Division 1
Duke
North Carolina
Virginia

Division 2
NC State
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Crossovers: UNC-NCSU, Duke-WF, UVA-VPI

Now zipper up the remaining 8 teams: Clemson-Georgia Tech, Boston College-Syracuse, Florida State-Miami, Pittsburgh-Louisville. These matchups would be cross-overs every year.

Year 1
Division 1
Duke
UNC
UVA
Clemson
BC
FSU
Pitt

Division 2
NCSU
VPI
WF
GT
SU
Miami
UL
Each team would play 1 more team from the division on rotation.

Year 2
Division 1
Duke
UNC
UVA
Clemson
BC
Miami
UL

Division 2
NCSU
VPI
WF
GT
SU
FSU
Pitt

1 TBA from the other division again

Year 3
Division 1
Duke
UNC
UVA
GT
SU
FSU
Pitt

Division 2
NCSU
VPI
WF
Clemson
BC
Miami
UL

1 TBA for every school
Year 4
Division 1
Duke
UNC
UVA
GT
SU
Miami
UL

Division 2
NCSU
VPI
WF
Clemson
BC
FSU
Pitt
TBA

I mean this can't be fixed whatever the ACC wanted to do it but the premise would be the same as the 3+5+5 pretty much by having 3 team foundations that allowed the other 3 teams to be rotated and protecting the most important game for each team.
Every team would see each other a lot more frequently.

 

[TheCusian]

Go ahead and take it I honestly wouldn't be offended. Division 1 Duke North Carolina Virginia Division 2 NC State Virginia Tech Wake Forest Crossovers: UNC-NCSU, Duke-WF, UVA-VPI Now zipper up the remaining 8 teams: Clemson-Georgia Tech, Boston College-Syracuse, Florida State-Miami, Pittsburgh-Louisville. These matchups would be cross-overs every year. Year 1 Division 1 Duke UNC UVA Clemson BC FSU Pitt Division 2 NCSU VPI WF GT SU Miami UL Each team would play 1 more team from the division on rotation. Year 2 Division 1 Duke UNC UVA Clemson BC Miami UL Division 2 NCSU VPI WF GT SU FSU Pitt 1 TBA from the other division again Year 3 Division 1 Duke UNC UVA GT SU FSU Pitt Division 2 NCSU VPI WF Clemson BC Miami UL 1 TBA for every school Year 4 Division 1 Duke UNC UVA GT SU Miami UL Division 2 NCSU VPI WF Clemson BC FSU Pitt TBA I mean this can't be fixed whatever the ACC wanted to do it but the premise would be the same as the 3+5+5 pretty much by having 3 team foundations that allowed the other 3 teams to be rotated and protecting the most important game for each team. Every team would see each other a lot more frequently.

What I love about this setup (besides playing everyone more often) is that there would be a fake outcry from the B1G & friends, followed by media people pretending to be confused - only to lead everyone ultimately to the obvious: divisions are stupid.