OT: Huge story breaking out of Italy

[IthacaMatt]

so we beat a team in an exhibition game then? And people are celebrating like its 1999???

All I know is if they put soccer again on ESPN during the month of March I am going to lose it.

Marsh, "Friendlies" are done a few times a year for national teams. It's not like pre-season NFL games. It's important for pretty much every national team, because they don't get together that often during the year - there are maybe 3 or 4 international breaks in the club calendar, and those usually fit in 2 games for the national team.

These games are important, prior to the qualifying matches. When we play our regional "rivals" in order to qualify for the World Cup, many of those game pale in comparison to our "friendlies" against top flight international competition. We don't get to play Brazil, England, Italy, France otherwise.

These are our chances to measure up in the run-up to the tournament. Rather looking at this as a than pure "exhibition", as in "this means nothing", you should look at international friendlies like you would out of conference games in college basketball in November and December. They measure you against top flight competition in a few matches, and you play punching bags in a few to bring your squad together. CONCACAF (our "conference") qualifying is like the Big East conference season, and then assuming we qualify, the World Cup is our March Madness.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I hate people that can't see that some people like to watch soccer and feel the need to disparage those who do... Get over yourselves.

On to the game. Jozy really needs to be stronger on the ball, he goes down a little too easy. He definitely needs to work on his touch as well, he had a few good moments (i.e. his pass to Deuce) but he struggles sometimes on deep crosses. Bradley was phenominal, I hope he can keep this form for a while. He really did a great job possessing the ball. Deuce is awesome. Nothing more to say on him. Timmy Howard did great too, had some great saves, even a few when the shots didn't count after offsides. Our backline also played great, didn't allow a lot of clean shots, and without Chandler and Gooch this is great news. Can't wait for the summer qualifying cycle to start.

I think one of his big problems is that he doesn't come back to meet the ball enough. He lets himself get too isolated up front, and separated from the flow of play. He needs a higher work rate during matches.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And I for one wish there was an International league where the scores of these "friendlies" mattered and that a world cup type tournament occured every single year with the best of the best team invited, say the top 16 in FIFA world rankings, in a best of 3 format. that would be awesome.

The USA has such a short attention span, so that by the time a new world cup rolls around most casual fans have forgotten the last one, and the turnover on the roster confuses many who don't follow it.

In soccer, club teams have become better (and more popular) than national teams. So, if you want a league with "international flavor", what you really want to watch is Champions League games on Fox Soccer or ESPN. These are the elite teams from throughout Europe who play a season long competition in parallel with their regular domestic season at home.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And the popularity of the sport will continue to grow, particularly with the rapidly growing Hispanic population in America. The ratings for the last World Cup blew anything prior (soccer-wise) out of the water. As we continue to improve as a national team interest will continue to grow, and more great athletes will play the sport. Joy Altidore could play virtually any sport, but he's a case where an elite athlete chose to play soccer. We will see more and more of that.

Our rivalry with Mexico is really important, too. When we lost that cup championship in California last year, and they did the awards ceremony IN SPANISH at a US stadium (even if it was in Los Angeles), insulted the hell out of a bunch of our players and fans. This is going to be a barn burner of a rivalry going forward, especially as Mexico seems to be launching a great generation of young, speedy, skilled players.

 

[jekelish]

Our rivalry with Mexico is really important, too. When we lost that cup championship in California last year, and they did the awards ceremony IN SPANISH at a US stadium (even if it was in Los Angeles), insulted the hell out of a bunch of our players and fans. This is going to be a barn burner of a rivalry going forward, especially as Mexico seems to be launching a great generation of young, speedy, skilled players.

Agreed, the US/Mexico rivalry is legitimately great. Bill Simmons wrote a great piece about our trip to Mexico City a couple years ago, and it gives you a good idea of the pure hatred that exists within the rivalry. It will only get better as we get consistently better (and we will need to, since they have one of the young true superstars in the world in Chicharito).

Edit: here's the Simmons piece: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090817

 

[qdawgg]

When we play Mexico in mexico it's in front of 100K plus fans. I get more excited for US v. mexico soccer game than the Super Bowl, not even close.

Edowd - I would agree with you that part of the reason that I enjoy watching the National Teams is out of a sense of pride.

 

[Marsh01]

Marsh, "Friendlies" are done a few times a year for national teams. It's not like pre-season NFL games. It's important for pretty much every national team, because they don't get together that often during the year - there are maybe 3 or 4 international breaks in the club calendar, and those usually fit in 2 games for the national team.

These games are important, prior to the qualifying matches. When we play our regional "rivals" in order to qualify for the World Cup, many of those game pale in comparison to our "friendlies" against top flight international competition. We don't get to play Brazil, England, Italy, France otherwise.

These are our chances to measure up in the run-up to the tournament. Rather looking at this as a than pure "exhibition", as in "this means nothing", you should look at international friendlies like you would out of conference games in college basketball in November and December. They measure you against top flight competition in a few matches, and you play punching bags in a few to bring your squad together. CONCACAF (our "conference") qualifying is like the Big East conference season, and then assuming we qualify, the World Cup is our March Madness.

Makes sense now. Thanks

 

[jekelish]

When we play Mexico in mexico it's in front of 100K plus fans. I get more excited for US v. mexico soccer game than the Super Bowl, not even close.

Edowd - I would agree with you that part of the reason that I enjoy watching the National Teams is out of a sense of pride.

I agree about national pride, but the thing is, we are finally starting to field teams that can compete with the majority of teams internationally. We may not win, but you'll be hard pressed to find a match we will lose 5-0 these days. That only helps the perception and helps build the national fan base. We have a quality product that will only get better now that our coach is a legitimate international superstar of the sport.

 

[ImperialOrange]

In soccer, club teams have become better (and more popular) than national teams. So, if you want a league with "international flavor", what you really want to watch is Champions League games on Fox Soccer or ESPN. These are the elite teams from throughout Europe who play a season long competition in parallel with their regular domestic season at home.

Champions league is a probably better tourney top to bottom than the world cup and the fact that it happens every year makes it far easier to get wrapped up in if you pick a European club team to cheer for.

Euro cup every 4 years is top notch as well and it's a nice 2 year holdover in between world cups for anyone that hasn't followed it in the past. There are as many talented national teams in Europe as there are in the entire world cup.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Agreed, the US/Mexico rivalry is legitimately great. Bill Simmons wrote a great piece about our trip to Mexico City a couple years ago, and it gives you a good idea of the pure hatred that exists within the rivalry. It will only get better as we get consistently better (and we will need to, since they have one of the young true superstars in the world in Chicharito).

Edit: here's the Simmons piece: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090817

It's not just Chicarito, though. They had like five guys who were so much faster than our midfield and defenders, and they just sliced us up. They're deep and they're very skilled and very fast. These guys have been winning major championships for the younger teams these past few years. This is really a great generation of players for them, and it's just taking shape. They're all still very young.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree about national pride, but the thing is, we are finally starting to field teams that can compete with the majority of teams internationally. We may not win, but you'll be hard pressed to find a match we will lose 5-0 these days. That only helps the perception and helps build the national fan base. We have a quality product that will only get better now that our coach is a legitimate international superstar of the sport.

It used to be in the 90s, when we hosted the World Cup in 94, and the sport first began to take hold, especially with our game against Brazil, well back then we could defend really well, but we had almost no chance in hell of scoring against anyone. That 94 World Cup team had a lot of amateur players, just to measure how far we've come in terms of our talent base.

Now, time has shown that American players play kind of a British game; we're big and fast and athletic and we overpower opponents. We tend to have few players who have the skill level of players from certain warm weather parts of the world where football is the big thing. Klinsmann wants to get more skilled guys into the program. Right now, short term, it looks like he is mining Germany for talent that has dual citizenship. Great strategy, if you ask me. Kids who play their way into the Bundesliga are likely to be good enough to earn consideration for the national team.

Another thing that Klinsmann is trying to figure out is how to tap into poor Hispanic neighborhoods in California and the Southwest, where potential "street soccer" Mexican style players may exist. I think that's a great strategy, if we can somehow get something like Boy's Clubs or Little League for soccer in poor neighborhoods. Not everyone grows to 6-7 and has an NBA future, after all. Lionel Messi looks about 5-4 and was a sickly kid with Ricketts from the slums or Argentina, sent away to soccer school in Spain at 14. It's like a Dickens novel.

For all its merits and growth, MSL is still AAA soccer. It's a minor league, because the wage scale is messed up with these 3 "big" contracts per team, and the very small salaries for everyone else. It's a try-out league, not a major league. It's the MAC or the Conference USA of national premier leagues around the world.

We've got to grow the product and fix it a bit, and it may catch on in the US in a bigger way than hockey, for instance, or Formula 1. And I don't mean to speak heresey, but is it me, or maybe has NASCAR jumped the shark ? Is it starting its decline do you think ? I'm getting that sense, kind of like with pro wrestling about a decade ago...

 

[DeGrozz]

Why do people put soccer on ESPN? First, because it's the most popular sport in the world. To even suggest otherwise is foolish. Second, because the Olympics are this year and these are tune up matches. It's a huge win for the US because a win like this builds momentum for the Olympics and helps sustain the momentum heading toward the next World Cup. It shows we have the talent to compete with elite sides from around the world.

And if you don't like soccer, don't watch it and shut the hell up when people say that they do. Does it cause you physical pain to know people enjoy the sport?

In the Olympics you don't bring your full national team. You are only allowed to bring an Under-23 team, with three overage players. The Olympics tune-up game last night was a 2-0 win over Mexico in Dallas.

 

[bnoro]

For all its merits and growth, MSL is still AAA soccer. It's a minor league, because the wage scale is messed up with these 3 "big" contracts per team, and the very small salaries for everyone else. It's a try-out league, not a major league. It's the MAC or the Conference USA of national premier leagues around the world.

The main issue with MLS is that it is a single entity league. The three contracts makes it so teams can make a profit (or try to) and to somewhat keep it fair for smaller market teams.

In order for the MLS to be legitimized, I feel they need to play the FIFA calendar; but we will never see that happen because of competition in the US from other sports.

I wouldn't call it a try out league though. It's definitely on the level of the leagues in Europe besides the big 4: EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1. It's like the Big East of college football before we left for the ACC.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I wouldn't call it a try out league though. It's definitely on the level of the leagues in Europe besides the big 4: EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1. It's like the Big East of college football before we left for the ACC.[/quote]

You have to add the Bundesliga to that list...Germany has actually now surpassed Italy in terms of number of automatic Champions League qualifiers.

 

[orangenirvana]

Jesum Cripes, stop bumping this stupid soccer thread.

It's March and Syracuse is 29-1, folks.

 

[bnoro]

You have to add the Bundesliga to that list...Germany has actually now surpassed Italy in terms of number of automatic Champions League qualifiers.

Actually completely forgot about the Bundesliga. Yikes.

 

[DeGrozz]

The main issue with MLS is that it is a single entity league. The three contracts makes it so teams can make a profit (or try to) and to somewhat keep it fair for smaller market teams.

In order for the MLS to be legitimized, I feel they need to play the FIFA calendar; but we will never see that happen because of competition in the US from other sports.

I wouldn't call it a try out league though. It's definitely on the level of the leagues in Europe besides the big 4: EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1. It's like the Big East of college football before we left for the ACC.

Edit -- Just saw you added Germany

It's laughable to think that the MLS is on the same level as most European leagues. Whether you look at it from a player development perspective or a quality of the product on the field perspective, I don't think any reasonable person would think that it is on the same level as the leagues in Germany (who has a much stronger league than France [Ligue 1] -- France's coach even discussed how the football culture in France lagged behind that of Germany after their victory over Germany this week. The only reason that France was ever highly regarded was due to O. Lyon's performances in Champions League, OL has fallen quite a bit since and their UEFA Coefficient has plummetted), Portugal, Russia, the Netherlands, Turkey, etc. (Maybe if you look down to countries like Finland and Ireland, they may be comparable, but I don't really know much about those leagues) I would say that the MLS is much more comparable to the middle of the table to the lower end of the table of the Coca Cola, Ligue 2, BL2, Series B, etc -- and I'm definitely not saying that this is a bad thing. Even the second tier leagues in large European countries continue to thrive.

In all though, the MLS has accomplished quite a bit over the last few years:

- They survived the economic downturn
- They have been able to maintain prime-time contracts withe ESPN
- They have had some success (compared to prior years) in the CONCACAF Champions League
- They have plans in place to vastly expand its youth training system
- A few good, young coaches have taken the helm at some clubs (Jason Kries, for example)
- They've built some really nice soccer specific stadiums

It still has a long way to go. I don't think it will ever be as popular as the NFL, NASCAR, MLB, NBA, or College Hoops and Football, but one day a few decades down the line, I think it could be on the level of the NHL where it has a fairly large niche group of fans that are loyal supporters of their teams.

 

[ROCcuse]

I rarely watch any MLS games or have any interest in it at all, but am happy that its increasing in popularity in this country, particularly in the Pac. NW. The average attendance figures for the Seattle Sounders of around 40,000 this past season are impressive for this country and is something I never thought id see until a couple more World Cups had passed.

 

[Ghost]

I'm confused. The title mentions a huge story in Italy and then everyone just keeps talking about soccer for the first two pages.

What's the huge story???? Is this a forum prank? Do I need to keep reading?

 

[Moontan]

I wouldn't call it a try out league though. It's definitely on the level of the leagues in Europe besides the big 4: EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Ligue 1. It's like the Big East of college football before we left for the ACC.

Methinks... no, meknows, that you overrate the quality of the MLS.

 

[Moontan]

In the Olympics you don't bring your full national team. You are only allowed to bring an Under-23 team, with three overage players.

In Europe, nobody really cares about men's Olympic soccer.

The real teams will be playing in Euro 2012, not in England the following month.

 

[DeGrozz]

In Europe, nobody really cares about men's Olympic soccer.

The real teams will be playing in Euro 2012, not in England the following month.

Can't argue with that. The European tournaments are so important to the UEFA nations. I'd bet most countries would rather have their youth teams with the U-21 UEFA Cup rather than the U-20 World Cup as well.

 

[Blaster]

I was thinking about doing a Fantasy MLS league with ppl from here. If your interested post HERE.