Our brand of football is boring | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Our brand of football is boring

When you watch other teams, just look at the time these QBs have. This is pretty simple formula. Get an Oline that can protect and a QB who can half way pass to a few decent receivers. I watch Washington a lot. Penix was very average at Indiana. However he got to wash and has all day to throw to 2 good receivers in Odunzei and Macmillan. And they average 40 a game. Systems matter. And Dino and Beck have a very average one at best right now
 
We didn’t see the recruiting uptick for WR/QB that was required to make OITNF work. And the 30 second three and out possessions killed the defense. So - Dino adapted to reality.

I’d prefer a more pass oriented offense, but I’m confident that people saying we need to play that style and the players we need will show up are wrong. We DID play that style and they DID NOT show up.

It would be insane to play an offense we know can’t work with the players we have, and we can’t recruit the types of players we need to make it work. “If you build it, they will come” is nonsense - if we can’t go in with a better strategy on how we’re going to successfully recruit the players needed, I cannot see why any coach would switch offenses.

“We want you to play an offense you can’t win with, but our fans will pretend to like for a few years until they call for your firing in year three” is going to be a tough sell to the candidates to replace Dino…
What killed the defense was that they were terrible, imo
 
I am not saying this is necessarily your belief but a lot of people seem to think that since we struggle to find good lineman we should focus more on plays that depend on bad lineman opening holes for runners
What I'm saying is we need better OL, period. For any type of offense. Im not talking just run specific.

We have tried to hit portal for OL and it's been a mixed bag at best.

We need to invest in the boys upfront to start.
 
What I'm saying is we need better OL, period. For any type of offense. Im not talking just run specific.

We have tried to hit portal for OL and it's been a mixed bag at best.

We need to invest in the boys upfront to start.
My point is that Syracuse fans are too inward looking. They try to assess what's possible by looking at a small sample of outcomes over many different years (SU results over time) instead of looking at many outcomes over a smaller number of years (all the other schools out there)

Tommy Devito refuses to throw the ball, let's not make grand conclusions about what is possible here, let's just make a conclusion about Tommy devito

Single threat QBs who won't throw the ball are worse than dual threat QBs who stink at throwing the ball but we give up on single threat so easily when a couple of them aren't good
 
What killed the defense was that they were terrible, imo
Yeah, conversation is probably different if Babers had Tony White or Rocky Long as the DC then instead of Brian Ward.
 
We didn’t see the recruiting uptick for WR/QB that was required to make OITNF work. And the 30 second three and out possessions killed the defense. So - Dino adapted to reality.

I’d prefer a more pass oriented offense, but I’m confident that people saying we need to play that style and the players we need will show up are wrong. We DID play that style and they DID NOT show up.

It would be insane to play an offense we know can’t work with the players we have, and we can’t recruit the types of players we need to make it work. “If you build it, they will come” is nonsense - if we can’t go in with a better strategy on how we’re going to successfully recruit the players needed, I cannot see why any coach would switch offenses.

“We want you to play an offense you can’t win with, but our fans will pretend to like for a few years until they call for your firing in year three” is going to be a tough sell to the candidates to replace Dino…
This conversation has happened a million times. Teams with bad QBs, bad lines, bad rbs, bad wr, bad te aren't successful doing anything so it doesn't matter

They're just good enough to get to six or seven wins with rpos and shrader runs so I'm fine with it but when he's done, do what you actually want to do and recruit for it
 
Yeah, conversation is probably different if Babers had Tony White or Rocky Long as the DC then instead of Brian Ward.
Nah, I think they still would've been horrible
 
I wasn't creating that false premise - I am responding to people that think we need to run the ball because of our bad lineman.

I just disagree that run blocking is easier than pass blocking.

Sack data is terribly unreliable in college between runs for losses and young qbs holding on to the ball way too long. it's hard to know how many sacks there were and in general sack numbers are at least 50% on the qb. so it's very hard to conclude much from sacks other than eye tests
I agree on this.. When you re-watch a ton of the sack issues are on Shrader running too soo.. I get that the pocket breaks down so he panics. But often he had time to throw.
 
This conversation has happened a million times. Teams with bad QBs, bad lines, bad rbs, bad wr, bad te aren't successful doing anything so it doesn't matter

They're just good enough to get to six or seven wins with rpos and shrader runs so I'm fine with it but when he's done, do what you actually want to do and recruit for it

Dino ran what he wanted when he got here, and found he COULDN’T successfully recruit for it. So we’ve done exactly what you wanted and it didn’t work - why is trying it again going to lead to a different result?

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I haven’t seen any ideas on what we would do differently the next time that would lead to a different result, so it seem like your plan is insanity.

For the record, I’d be OK if they gave up on Dino, threw a Hail Mary pass and tried the same thing with a new head coach - although I’d give that less than a 10% chance of working.
 
Dino ran what he wanted when he got here, and found he COULDN’T successfully recruit for it. So we’ve done exactly what you wanted and it didn’t work - why is trying it again going to lead to a different result?

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I haven’t seen any ideas on what we would do differently the next time that would lead to a different result, so it seem like your plan is insanity.

For the record, I’d be OK if they gave up on Dino, threw a Hail Mary pass and tried the same thing with a new head coach - although I’d give that less than a 10% chance of working.
Devito wasnt good. Not all passers are devito

I've said a million times what I would do for 25 years to the point of driving everyone crazy (air raid) so give me a break with the stupid cliches

Do you roll snake eyes and say, well it would be insane to roll the dice again
 
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I agree on this.. When you re-watch a ton of the sack issues are on Shrader running too soo.. I get that the pocket breaks down so he panics. But often he had time to throw.
Runs too soon or eats it waiting forever
 
Devito wasnt good. Not all passers are devito

I've said a million times what I would do for 25 years to the point of driving everyone crazy (air raid) so give me a break with the stupid cliches

Do you roll snake eyes and say, well it would be insane to roll the dice again

Nassib was a good QB but with our 2010 OL we don’t make a Bowl being pass happy.

I do think Marrone held him back in 2011 though.

We don’t know what would happen with a mediocre QB here and a pass first O. I guess we will find out next year.
 
In hindsight it's too bad Babers didn't just use 2 RB's at the same time when he had the speedster from Arizona with Tucker instead of throwing out 3/4 below average WR's.
 
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Nassib was a good QB but with our 2010 OL we don’t make a Bowl being pass happy.

I do think Marrone held him back in 2011 though.

We don’t know what would happen with a mediocre QB here and a pass first O. I guess we will find out next year.
Oh 2011, the year that could've been. I like to credit that year with the moment Marrone said "this college game sucks"
 
Getting sacked 8 times a game and going 3 and out all the time isn't boring? You need to cater to the talent you can get.

Running does not equal boring. Which of those HCs have a boring team? That is a list so "no one plays that way" is false.
Why is running catering to the talent we can get?

Who are the comparisons?
 
In hindsight it's too bad Babers didn't just use 2 RB's at the same time when he had the speedster from Arizona with Tucker instead of throwing out 3/4 below average WR's.
So I don't have to do, can you tell me why babers's and the old Baylor offense used 4 wr and a a single back to run the ball?

I'm just curious if you know what the whole point of that offense is
 
Why is running catering to the talent we can get?

Who are the comparisons?

Look at our QBs, RBs, and WRs historically. Look at Northeastern high school talent.

I think the best O system would be our 2012 system. It has balance. Strong running game and could light it up in the air. But we need a good OL for that to work.

Really the main thing is we need a coach who can ID HS OL talent, develop it, and coach it up. OL guys slip through the cracks all the time. Marrone did it. DeLeone did it. The other guys failed miserably at it.
 
Look at our QBs, RBs, and WRs historically. Look at Northeastern high school talent.

I think the best O system would be our 2012 system. It has balance. Strong running game and could light it up in the air. But we need a good OL for that to work.

Really the main thing is we need a coach who can ID HS OL talent, develop it, and coach it up. OL guys slip through the cracks all the time. Marrone did it. DeLeone did it. The other guys failed miserably at it.
No offense that didn't answer my question. You're just defaulting to running. How good are northeastern running backs and run blockers?

I'm not trying to be funny here because deleone passed away but it was so long ago

It's like someone in 1993 talking about what an offensive line coach did in 63.
 
So I don't have to do, can you tell me why babers's and the old Baylor offense used 4 wr and a a single back to run the ball?

I'm just curious if you know what the whole point of that offense is

My point is that you use your talent wherever it is. I understand the Baylor O and what direction Babers wanted to go but sometimes circumstances take you somewhere else and you have to adjust.
 
My point is that you use your talent wherever it is. I understand the Baylor O and what direction Babers wanted to go but sometimes circumstances take you somewhere else and you have to adjust.
I just don't understand why no talent defaults to running the ball. You're screwed anyway so hire someone with a system that you like when things are going well

Two backs is two more guys in the box.

People near the sideline can't stuff your rb.
 
Probably the best example of your conversation is Addazio at BC. Three yards, a cloud of dust, and seven wins annually.
 
I just don't understand why no talent defaults to running the ball. You're screwed anyway so hire someone with a system that you like when things are going well

Two backs is two more guys in the box.

People near the sideline can't stuff your rb.

What I'm saying is use your best talent to its fullest potential. SU had Tucker and Jorden and they should have both been on the field and yes, if necessary RB's on the field at the same time.

Why put a circle into a square? Those two along with Gadson, who peaked last year, were the best offensive talent.
 
Defaulting to full meathead is not the way to go. We had an NFL RB last year and we had 3 straight games where we couldn't run the ball against good teams.

To me full meathead is not using your best talent. I'm not a run the ball guy and fully believe in balance where you take advantage of the D wherever you can. The strength of one opens up the other.
 
What I'm saying is use your best talent to its fullest potential. SU had Tucker and Jorden and they should have both been on the field and yes, if necessary RB's on the field at the same time.

Why put a circle into a square? Those two along with Gadson, who peaked last year, were the best offensive talent.
There is one ball. One more guy in the box is one more guy to block. There is a reason you don't see teams with two tailbacks very much. The whole point of the Baylor offense he was hired to run is make defenders defend as wide as possible and declare their intentions in an obvious way to make it easy to run when you have the right numbers
 

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