Our OOC schedule is way too weak*

[OttoinGrotto]

It hasn't worked. One final four per 12 years is not "working."

The goal is a deep March run...not a protected seed.

I think you've got it backwards.

The goal is a protected seed, because single elim tourneys are a crap shoot. It's all flukey. The best you can hope for is that you get a good draw and don't run into a buzzsaw and/or team of destiny.

This idea that if we play a more challenging schedule it magically increases our odds in a single elimination tournament doesn't fly.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

How does it help the team? Look at Cooney, who worked through his season opening slump. Look at Christman and Keita, who are both playing the best they ever have and have tons of confidence. Look at how our press is taking teams apart.

Look at the feel Mike is developing for where players will be on the floor and where to get them the ball. Look at Dirty, who exploded on to the national scene, and is now working thru what it's like to have defenses key on you as a main guy.

This is all good, and it's great that we're doing this now before the games really "matter" (although if we had lost 3 or 4 of these games, we would be looking at the bubble come tournament selection time). The margin for error is not so great. Boeheim scheduled just right for this team.

Hope your right but playing great against crap teams is not a test of how good this team is or is developing because they are still playing crap teams. The acid test will be how they play against good teams. Then we'll see. Wish SU had a more challenging schedule to gauge their progress. And I am hoping you are correct.

 

[Quazzum69]

Please stop with the "we have young, untested players who need to feel their way into college." Monmouth was playing with a 6'3 forward! I think the top high school players in the country as freshman can handle themselves against better competition than the completely over-matched teams we've played (the other teams have freshman, too). It may be mostly untrue, but it is pretty crappy to have the reputation of playing cupcakes and not leaving the Dome until January.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think you've got it backwards.

The goal is a protected seed, because single elim tourneys are a crap shoot. It's all flukey. The best you can hope for is that you get a good draw and don't run into a buzzsaw and/or team of destiny.

This idea that if we play a more challenging schedule it magically increases our odds in a single elimination tournament doesn't fly.

The tournament is a crapshoot if you're looking at a one year snapshot...not a career that spans five decades.

 

[kuethstheman]

BTW ...Izzo has six final fours with equal to slightly lesser talent than Boeheim. He doesn't duck anyone. just sayin...

Izzo plays a tough November, December and an easy January, February. Is that what you want us to do? Sorry but JB can't control that.

 

[kuethstheman]

Please stop with the "we have young, untested players who need to feel their way into college." Monmouth was playing with a 6'3 forward! I think the top high school players in the country as freshman can handle themselves against better competition than the completely over-matched teams we've played (the other teams have freshman, too). It may be mostly untrue, but it is pretty crappy to have the reputation of playing cupcakes and not leaving the Dome until January.

I don't agree that our OOC is "too easy" overall but Monmouth was a bad choice, no doubt.

 

[SWC75]

Izzo plays a tough November, December and an easy January, February. Is that what you want us to do? Sorry but JB can't control that.

Party of that tough early schedule is that they've played us 3 times and JB has won each time. They did beat us in the Big Dance, in their own backyard.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The tournament is a crapshoot if you're looking at a one year snapshot...not a career that spans five decades.

Only a handful of schools have more final fours and titles over JB's career.

You're getting all hot and bothered over nothing.

The tournament is actually less of a crapshoot if you look at it one year at a time as opposed to decades at a time.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's the same every year. Even before the refrain about us never leaving the state, the criticism was of our cupcake schedule. Matters not who's returning.

Frankly, it sucks as a fan, to watch these games in which I have zero emotional investment. No tension. They're boring. Might as well all be exhibitions.

Just a couple years ago, we beat North Carolina in one of these early season games. We seem to be keep playing Florida a lot. They're hardly a cupcake, although we seem to own them. We have had SO many early season wins against big teams. How long have you been a fan?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't agree that our OOC is "too easy" overall but Monmouth was a bad choice, no doubt.

Believe it or not, these kids have finals to take. That's why there's a week coming up before the next game. Then they will make a quick sprint home to see their families around the holidays, then they have a couple easy games around New Year's before we start the Big East. Look at most of the top teams and their scheduling isn't that different from ours. Maybe 1 or 2 more BCS level games, that's all.

And if you played in the Pac 10, Big 10 or the SEC and want a high seed, you need to maybe play a little tougher pre-season than Big East teams or ACC teams have to do (Big East even more than the ACC).

Our conference has been a buzz-saw for several years now, ever since Louisville and Marquette were added. The league was already damn tough, but wow, it's been crazy these past few years.

 

[pfister1]

I think these games will prove to be most important for DCII and Grant. If we were playing games in which we were challenged and the outcome was in doubt, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Grant didn't get an opportunity to play and DCII was on the Fab Melo/RAK freshman plan.

 

[RF2044]

I think these games will prove to be most important for DCII and Grant. If we were playing games in which we were challenged and the outcome was in doubt, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Grant didn't get an opportunity to play and DCII was on the Fab Melo/RAK freshman plan.

Good observation.

After getting pulled very early against Monmouth for a couple of botched early defensive assignments, it looked like Coleman was on the Fab frosh season trajectory and wasn't going to play much.

Instead, he comes back into the game and finished with 11 and 14. Now, by no means do I suggest that Monmouth's frontcourt was up to snuff, but instead of this game being a net negative for Coleman, instead the guy worked back in, had success, and recorded a double double.

I'm 99% convinced that the key to how our season will ultimately unfold rests upon whether or not we can develop consistent low post scoring. Coleman is the guy most suited to provide that. Games like Monmouth are useful in terms of his developmental curve--he has a long way to go.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Only a handful of schools have more final fours and titles over JB's career.

You're getting all hot and bothered over nothing.

The tournament is actually less of a crapshoot if you look at it one year at a time as opposed to decades at a time.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

How is the tournament more of a craphsoot over time? The same teams don't tend to rise to the top?

One final four per 12 years is mediocre at best for an elite coach. So I would not say that what he does is working.

 

[orange79]

How is the tournament more of a craphsoot over time? The same teams don't tend to rise to the top?

One final four per 12 years is mediocre at best for an elite coach. So I would not say that what he does is working.

I guess what I don't understand about your argument is how you have pinpointed that scheduling is the cause of 1 FF per every 12 years. Nothing else could cause that?

 

[pfister1]

I guess what I don't understand about your argument is how you have pinpointed that scheduling is the cause of 1 FF per every 12 years. Nothing else could cause that?

10 years ago it would have been because JB was a terrible in-game coach, or at least that's what I remember the criticism du jour being at that time.

I agree that tournament success is the weakest line item on JB's resume, but to think that the reason we haven't had more success could be pinpointed to any one factor is ridiculous. It wasn't a difference maker in the late 80s or early 90s when we did play BCS caliber opponents during the OOC schedule and it isn't certainly going to be the difference maker if we were to do it today.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I think these games will prove to be most important for DCII and Grant. If we were playing games in which we were challenged and the outcome was in doubt, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Grant didn't get an opportunity to play and DCII was on the Fab Melo/RAK freshman plan.

I think these games will be most important this year for Cooney. Cooney has an opportunity to earn JB's trust and maybe carve himself a role as a designated 3 pt shooter. If things go well in these games Cooney has a chance to be a real contributor the rest of the season.

I believe Grant's development time is for future years. Grant seems in an MCW type talent logjam.

I think these games are great for DC2s development. With DC2, the quicker that post game becomes a weapon, the better. I think DC2 will be playing come BE time.. The guy is a beast, and even as his post game develops, the rebounds and presence can be helpful.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

How is the tournament more of a craphsoot over time?

Statistical probabilities, SON!

 

[NKR1978]

Just a couple years ago, we beat North Carolina in one of these early season games. We seem to be keep playing Florida a lot. They're hardly a cupcake, although we seem to own them. We have had SO many early season wins against big teams. How long have you been a fan?

That's why I'm disappointed with this one year. In the last four years we've had Florida x 3, Michigan State, UNC, Kansas as the headliners along with Stanford, cal, va tech, Memphis x 2, Michigan and Georgia Tech.

That's fourteen BCS + Memphis at its near peak over four seasons from 08-09 to 11-12. This year we have no headliner and that's just a let down from what we have had the last four years.

While next year's Maui field is disappointing since we are clearly the biggest name there, we still have the chance to play 3 BCS team. Hopefully we get a solid game at Barclay's or MSG and sign a home and home to round out the schedule.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

 

[SWC75]

How is the tournament more of a craphsoot over time? The same teams don't tend to rise to the top?

One final four per 12 years is mediocre at best for an elite coach. So I would not say that what he does is working.

Ironically, he's 7-4 from the Elite 8 onward. I wonder what that says about the early schedule. The problem has been in the Sweet 16, where he's 5-11. Maybe we should be discussing that.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I guess what I don't understand about your argument is how you have pinpointed that scheduling is the cause of 1 FF per every 12 years. Nothing else could cause that?

I don't think it's the cause. I wasn't the one who argued that scheduling weak teams has been effective.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Ironically, he's 7-4 from the Elite 8 onward. I wonder what that says about the early schedule. The problem has been in the Sweet 16, where he's 5-11. Maybe we should be discussing that.

That he's been able to make three great runs in 35 years.

 

[moqui]

I understand the need to play these games from a developmental perspective, and I know that JB has a plan and is following it.

But, I have absolutely no interest in games like this. I didn't even watch the second half. Loading the schedule up with too many of these games is why SU has ceded the annual attendance title.

 

[armory]

Funny thing is ... according to the latest RPI rankings... Wagner and Long Beach State are our two toughest opponents thus far and both are ranked in the top 85

 

[Rocco]

*

Gottlieb is that you?

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

At the beginning of the season I thought this was a challenging schedule. it not our fault arkansas hasn't performed as many expected. they were a projected borderline ncaa team, and around top 30 team, who was a true road game, no matter what espn says. sdsu is still a legit top 15 team, who we played across country, and temple is a tournament team, and borderline top 25. not to mention lbsu, detroit, princeton were all picked to win their leagues, and almost everyone else besides alcorn st, and colgate were picked in the top half of their conference. i have no problem with the scheduling, the system obviously works. we need this time to develop DC, Grant, Cooney, as well as get virtually everyone else acclimated to their new roles.

thank you for shining up the turd a bit. I need more ammo to throw back at my Duke fan friends.