Out with UCon, In with UNC

[AlaskaSU]

 

[texascpa]

smh

 

[itsbotime]

Yeah, we all know all of the basketball players at other schools only take nuclear engineering courses.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Where'd you find that list?

 

[skurey]

Those millions of dollars those players earned for UNC and the NCAA sure are going to pay off with that degree. What a fair system.

 

[AlaskaSU]

They were not even real classes. I would be shocked if they skate. It is just now all coming out in the wash.

 

[itsbotime]

They were not even real classes. I would be shocked if they skate. It is just now all coming out in the wash.

False. The NCAA has known about the classes you listed in the OP for over a year now and has already stated that there was no NCAA violation committed. It isn't that there were no classes, it is that the classes were taught in an independent study format rather than in a classroom setting (something that Michigan and Auburn have also done and that the NCAA approved in those cases as well).

 

[Full_Rebar]

The fact that it isn't a NCAA violation is another reason why the NCAA needs to go. Let's hammer some schools with this nonsensical APR, but we won't get involved when it is obvious that schools are using independent studies to keep athletes eligible. I know that UNC isn't alone in doing this, I am simply commenting on these types of situations as the NCAA says they don't get involved with campus policies.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Yeah, we all know all of the basketball players at other schools only take nuclear engineering courses.

That's true - nuclear engineering is all just plumbing. Nuclear PHYSICS, now that is where it is at!

 

[itsbotime]

The fact that it isn't a NCAA violation is another reason why the NCAA needs to go. Let's hammer some schools with this nonsensical APR, but we won't get involved when it is obvious that schools are using independent studies to keep athletes eligible. I know that UNC isn't alone in doing this, I am simply commenting on these types of situations as the NCAA says they don't get involved with campus policies.

The whole system needs reevaluating. You and I both know that unfortunately, the main reason most of these kids go to school is to play basketball. Their priority is basketball first, school second, and the system as a whole encourages that by allowing kids with SAT scores in the 900s and GPAs in the 2.0 range to get full rides to schools where they don't stand a chance of competing academically. They are in way over their heads, but as long as the NCAA and the schools can get their money and as long as we as fans are entertained everyone is happy. No one wants to see just how these kids are able to remain in school.

 

[itsbotime]

That's true - nuclear engineering is all just plumbing. Nuclear PHYSICS, now that is where it is at!

Nuclear physics? More like nuclear instant headache.

 

[AlaskaSU]

False. The NCAA has known about the classes you listed in the OP for over a year now and has already stated that there was no NCAA violation committed. It isn't that there were no classes, it is that the classes were taught in an independent study format rather than in a classroom setting (something that Michigan and Auburn have also done and that the NCAA approved in those cases as well).

What is the difference between no class and independent study, when nothing was studied?

There is more to it that is just coming to light. At first the classes were only offered to athletes (football, basketball and baseball). Later on they were offered to other students but the athletes all received A's. All the grades are now posted on the Duke Scout board. There was an internal investigation written by a three person faculty panel. It now comes to light that it was edited by the (female) NCU faculty rep, who was also having an affair with a basketball player. The authors kept notes regarding the pressure that was applied to them by the faculty rep. Names are now out in the open as to who did what.

The classes were all just one big sham. If a school can do this within NCAA rules, it makes a mockery of their GPA standards. This is a mad world. When risk punishment when it is legal to mail out A's to athletes?

 

[DoctorBombay]

Yes...let's mock academic issues at UNC before all our "issues" are fully revealed and resolved.
Just sayin'...glass houses, folks. Oh Lord
And btw- these guys say Hi.

 

[itsbotime]

What is the difference between no class and independent study, when nothing was studied?

There is more to it that is just coming to light. At first the classes were only offered to athletes (football, basketball and baseball). Later on they were offered to other students but the athletes all received A's. All the grades are now posted on the Duke Scout board. There was an internal investigation written by a three person faculty panel. It now comes to light that it was edited by the (female) NCU faculty rep, who was also having an affair with a basketball player. The authors kept notes regarding the pressure that was applied to them by the faculty rep. Names are now out in the open as to who did what.

The classes were all just one big sham. If a school can do this within NCAA rules, it makes a mockery of their GPA standards. This is a mad world. When risk punishment when it is legal to mail out A's to athletes?

Your facts are incorrect. The courses were never offered to "just" athletes. They were always available to the student body as a whole. You have to understand that there have already been four separate, extensive, independent investigations into this and all came up with the same conclusion: there were two "rogues" in the AFAM department but the athletic department had nothing to do with it. First, the UNC system launched an investigation. Afterwards, an independent academic auditing firm and a former governor with no ties to the university conducted an extensive, months-long investigation into the AFAM courses (and others), reviewing over 100,000 courses stretching back over a decade. After that, SACS, UNC's accrediting agency, launched an investigation. Finally, the NCAA looked into it as well. All four independent investigations came to the same conclusion: there was some shadiness, but it was confined to two "rogue" employees who are no longer employed by the university, it was confined to the AFAM department, and there was no evidence that the athletic department had anything to do with it.

Also, your accusation that "nothing was studied" is unfounded. The classes were supposed to meet for lecture, but the professor decided to teach them in an independent study format instead. That is sketchy, but that issue has been dealt with. Nevertheless, the courses in question required a 15-page research paper to be turned in at the end, which is not very unusual for an independent study course.


Of course our foes are going to have their own conspiracy theories...it is the offseason and that is all they have to do right now. While you are over on the Duke board however you should ask about Lance Thomas and his bling. After that, you should ask how Duke is able to keep athletes with average SAT scores in the 900s (the same average as UNC's athletes) eligible in their near Ivy-league academic environment. Duke does the same thing (everyone does it), but they are simply able to hide behind their private school status and are immune to most public records requests.

 

[DoctorBombay]

PS- I will NEVER forgive Fab for costing us a Final 4 at a minimum, and at best, a showdown versus Anthony Davis and UK .
We would've won that thing, so call it sour grapes if you will! :bang: :bang::bang:

 

[AlaskaSU]

Your facts are incorrect. The courses were never offered to "just" athletes. They were always available to the student body as a whole. You have to understand that there have already been four separate, extensive, independent investigations into this and all came up with the same conclusion: there were two "rogues" in the AFAM department but the athletic department had nothing to do with it. First, the UNC system launched an investigation. Afterwards, an independent academic auditing firm and a former governor with no ties to the university conducted an extensive, months-long investigation into the AFAM courses (and others), reviewing over 100,000 courses stretching back over a decade. After that, SACS, UNC's accrediting agency, launched an investigation. Finally, the NCAA looked into it as well. All four independent investigations came to the same conclusion: there was some shadiness, but it was confined to two "rogue" employees who are no longer employed by the university, it was confined to the AFAM department, and there was no evidence that the athletic department had anything to do with it.

Also, your accusation that "nothing was studied" is unfounded. The classes were supposed to meet for lecture, but the professor decided to teach them in an independent study format instead. That is sketchy, but that issue has been dealt with. Nevertheless, the courses in question required a 15-page research paper to be turned in at the end, which is not very unusual for an independent study course.


Of course our foes are going to have their own conspiracy theories...it is the offseason and that is all they have to do right now. While you are over on the Duke board however you should ask about Lance Thomas and his bling. After that, you should ask how Duke is able to keep athletes with average SAT scores in the 900s (the same average as UNC's athletes) eligible in their near Ivy-league academic environment. Duke does the same thing (everyone does it), but they are simply able to hide behind their private school status and are immune to most public records requests.

All the grades are posted on the Duke Scout board. How do you account for the fact that every athlete got an A. How do you account for the fact that every basketball player took the same courses? Stop kidding yourself, it was not just two rogue profs. It was widespread. You are lucky that the NCAA stays clear of what they call internal academic issues. Syracuse does not have fake courses and I doubt that Duke does. We actually have students suspended for poor academic performance. Reality is that UNC athlete academics was pure fraud.

 

[itsbotime]

All the grades are posted on the Duke Scout board. How do you account for the fact that every athlete got an A. How do you account for the fact that every basketball player took the same courses? Stop kidding yourself, it was not just two rogue profs. It was widespread. You are lucky that the NCAA stays clear of what they call internal academic issues. Syracuse does not have fake courses and I doubt that Duke does. We actually have students suspended for poor academic performance. Reality is that UNC athlete academics was pure fraud.

Basketball players take a lot of the same courses because:

a) They are friends and anyone who has been to college knows that you like to take classes with your friends when possible
b) They have the same practice schedules so some courses fit in better than others
c) They often don't care as much about school as they do about basketball so they tend to flock to the "Easy A" courses

Not rocket science.

Regardless, I think I'll trust four independent investigations conducted by professionals over the word of a bunch of Duke fans. Seems like the NCAA feels the same way.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Explain why every athlete got an A. The grades, and distribution are posted. Too bad that you don't like the messenger.

I come to the ACC with an open mind. My bias was to be pro NCU and anti Duke. Now that I am paying more attention I have changed my mind. NCU is the ACC version of Yukon. They flaunt the rules by supporting a bogus program specifically for the benefit of athletes. No less a personage than the campus faculty representative, elected by the NCU faculty, supports an entire department that gives favorable grades to athletes, while she sleeps with a basketball player, and edits the internal report prepared by other faculty, and she is still at your great University. Lets not mention the book she wrote on ethics and college athletics. If you would not have continued your one man defense I would not have bothered to mention the details. You asked for it. You got it.

 

[itsbotime]

Explain why every athlete got an A. The grades, and distribution are posted. Too bad that you don't like the messenger.

The issue has been looked into by four different independent organizations, including an academic auditing agency, our academic accreditation agency, and the NCAA. If they don't have a problem with the grade distribution, neither do I. Evidently the explanation for the grades was satisfactory to them.

 

[igor]

another northeastern school is advantageous for us and the league

 

[igor]

smh

"the dirtiest hole I ever saw." - Abigail Adams (wife of President John Adams)

Thomas Jefferson 1798

 

[SmilinBob]

I'd like to see the classes the Kentucky kids take.