Class of 2020 Patrick Tapé / Columbia Grad Transfer

[dasher]

He was a high 4 Star didn’t get the 5th Star so I was wrong.
He was a top 40 recruit though.

Malachi was a McD AA.
Lydon a 4 Star.

Those 3 were studs for us.

Actually, I think you are both correct. He was 5 star very early at one time. He dropped to 4 star for his sr year. And Lydon was well under rated, he was in the 80's. He was much better than that.

 

[dasher]

Wasn’t Jalen Brunson a 5 Star kid who wanted to come to SU?

I get we don’t go after the top 5 kids who are hard to get but you know we were recruiting fine under Hopkins.

We stopped recruiting like Syracuse in 2015 after Battle.

Battle was a 5 Star recruit.

Malachi/Lydon class was good.

Our problems now are 2016 onward that has very little to do with the points these people are saying.
I know you that but the narrative here is saying otherwise.

We really don't know that for sure. But when we ask JB about it, make sure we ask Calhoun about Ryan Gomes while we are at it.

 

[Alsacs]

but we couldn't pay them, which is why they went to Arizona, LSU, Kansas, Kentucky ,etc.

Think that list ended with Malachi about 5 years ago, which is when the NCAA hammered us. March, 2015.

This is ridlicious.

So I guess Mike Hopkins bought Isiah Stewart to go to Washington.
Indiana bought Thomas Bryant.

Or maybe our recruiting has gone downhill because the players wanted to play elsewhere.
The recruiting is on the coaching staff.
The biggest reason we have been mediocre is the talent.
You seem to imply every miss has been because we couldn’t “buy” them.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

This is ridlicious.

So I guess Mike Hopkins bought Isiah Stewart to go to Washington.
Indiana bought Thomas Bryant.

Or maybe our recruiting has gone downhill because the players wanted to play elsewhere.
The recruiting is on the coaching staff.
The biggest reason we have been mediocre is the talent.
You seem to imply every miss has been because we couldn’t “buy” them.

Which part is ridiculous? The part about players we know got paid, the part where the NCAA hammered us, or the part where the NCAA was investigating Syracuse for 10 years?

Why would Thomas Bryant go to Syracuse when they just got 5 years probation? His own mother said it.

Who knows about Hopkins and Stewart? We used to get McDonald's AA's when Hop was at Syracuse too.

Are you going to pretend Billy Preston didn't get $100k?

Look at the kids Cuse recruited in the 2017 class: #2 Michael Porter, #4 Mohammed Bamba, #6 Trevon Duval, #13 Lonnie Walker, #17 Nick Richards, #18 Billy Preston, #24 Quade Green, #31 Matt Coleman, #27 Brandon Randolph, #42 Jordan Tucker.

We know Arizona and Kansas pay. Most people here assume Duke and Kentucky pay. Pretty sure Miami's name came up in the pay scandal. That leaves Texas. Think they wouldn't pay? Porter was going wherever his Dad went, so he surely got paid. That's 10 of the Top 50 we recruited.

Look back 1 year. #21 Carlton Bragg and #7 Chiek Diallo (Kansas) and #24 VJ King (Louisville) Louisville and Kansas pay top dollar thanks to Adidas. #20 Kobi Simmons went to Arizona, which pays Top Dollar, thanks to Nike.

Maybe our recruiting has gone downhill, because the players wanted to play elsewhere, because we got hit hard with 5 years of probation AND we can't pay players? Just a thought.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I don't think that Battle was a 5-star recruit -- could be wrong.

But there is a difference between Tyus Battle and guys who are clear one-and-dones. Lydon was undervalued nationally, Richardson emerged as a McD's, but wasn't considered a one-and-done candidate until he blew up against UVa. McCullough was a borderline 4 star / 5 star, IIRC.

I think the main issue on that front has been that we're getting guys [or rather, "got" guys] who had an attractive athletic profile for the NBA, but who weren't good enough to have a high major impact for the most part. But given how the NBA drafts now, many of them became first round picks drafted on potential, and they were gone before they actualized said potential [for the most part -- obviously, a guy like Lydon contributed a lot to our F4 run]. It's like being stuck in the middle -- we've landed guys who are good enough to get drafted, but not good enough to put the team on their backs and take us to the next level.

Chris was a five star. No 24 on ESPN. I thought he was higher elsewhere. But, this NBA draft profile probably reflects 'truth' more than just a single number:

"While only 20 years old, Chris McCullough's career has been somewhat of a rollercoaster so far. Considered a top-10 recruit in his class early on in high school, his stock dramatically dropped among scouting services when his production failed to live up to his lofty potential, and concerns lingered about his lack of intensity and internal motivation. He bounced around three different high schools, and was dismissed from Brewster Academy prep school in the midst of his senior year, which prompted him to move to IMG Academy, where he was able to refocus, become college eligible, and move back up the recruiting rankings." - Source: DraftExpress - Chris McCullough DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook ©DraftExpress

Feels like he was our last 'big time' recruit. I thought Battle was somewhere in the 20s, also, but i definitely expected more from Chris than Battle.

"we've landed guys who are good enough to get drafted, but not good enough to put the team on their backs and take us to the next level."
Yah. Bingo.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Which part is ridiculous? The part about players we know got paid, the part where the NCAA hammered us, or the part where the NCAA was investigating Syracuse for 10 years?

Why would Thomas Bryant go to Syracuse when they just got 5 years probation?

Who knows about Hopkins and Stewart? We used to get McDonald's AA's when Hop was at Syracuse too.

Are you going to pretend Billy Preston didn't get $100k?

Look at the kids Cuse recruited in the 2017 class: #2 Michael Porter, #4 Mohammed Bamba, #6 Trevon Duval, #13 Lonnie Walker, #17 Nick Richards, #18 Billy Preston, #24 Quade Green, #31 Matt Coleman, #27 Brandon Randolph, #42 Jordan Tucker.

We know Arizona and Kansas pays. Most people here assume Duke and Kentucky pay. Pretty sure Miami's name came up in the pay scandal. That leaves Texas. Think they wouldn't pay? Porter was going wherever his Dad went, so he surely got paid. That's 10 of the Top 50 we recruited.

Look back 1 year. #21 Carlton Bragg and #7 Chiek Diallo (Kansas) and #24 VJ King (Louisville) Louisville and Kansas pay top dollar thanks to Adidas. #20 Kobi Simmons went to Arizona, which pays Top Dollar, thanks to Nike.

Maybe our recruiting has gone downhill, because the players wanted to play elsewhere, because we got hit hard with 5 years of probation AND we can't pay players? Just a thought.

Shouldn't we assume fans of other schools are saying we paid when we were getting the top kids? And that we're paying now, that we've got a commitment from Dior?

I really wish the FBI would get further involved with all this, and that real consequence would apply to violators. This is all too big and too important to too many people for the system to still be so 'cheatable.' I hope MLB's issues will inspire a commitment to cleaner sports everywhere. But, i doubt it.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Shouldn't we assume fans of other schools are saying we paid when we were getting the top kids? And that we're paying now, that we've got a commitment from Dior?

I really wish the FBI would get further involved with all this, and that real consequence would apply to violators. This is all too big and too important to too many people for the system to still be so 'cheatable.' I hope MLB's issues will inspire a commitment to cleaner sports everywhere. But, i doubt it.

They probably do assume that. Syracuse and JB and our players/recruits names haven't popped up in these sneaker scandals, and we are not getting elite kids anymore, so have to assume most don't think we are cheating now.

One of my best friends is a Kansas alum. He used to tell me all the time that Kansas sells itself and didn't need to cheat. We don't even argue about it anymore.

 

[721Comstock]

They probably do assume that. Syracuse and JB and our players/recruits names haven't popped up in these sneaker scandals, and we are not getting elite kids anymore, so have to assume most don't think we are cheating now.

IF we’re cheating now, we’re doing a crap job of it!!

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

IF we’re cheating now, we’re doing a crap job of it!!

Haha! Girard is getting like $100.

 

[721Comstock]

Haha! Girard is getting like $100.

He’s worth every penny.

JBA got a free Happy Meal.
Buddy didn’t have to do his chores for a week.

 

[Horn88]

but we couldn't pay them, which is why they went to Arizona, LSU, Kansas, Kentucky ,etc.

Think that list ended with Malachi about 5 years ago, which is when the NCAA hammered us. March, 2015.

So is your argument that when we got high level talent we paid them to come here and now that JB has been hit with serious sanctions twice we can’t pay anymore and that’s why recruiting has fallen off?

And as far as your other post, Red had Coleman ready to visit and potentially commit and then the week leading up to his visit we told him to stay home because we thought we had Quade locked up. Tucker we slow played because he acted like a wild boy partying on his visits then we tried to make nice too late after we struck out on everyone else. None of that had to do with money and neither did Randolph’s recruitment.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

So is your argument that when we got high level talent we paid them to come here and now that JB has been hit with serious sanctions twice we can’t pay anymore and that’s why recruiting has fallen off?

And as far as your other post, Red had Coleman ready to visit and potentially commit and then the week leading up to his visit we told him to stay home because we thought we had Quade locked up. Tucker we slow played because he acted like a wild boy partying on his visits then we tried to make nice too late after we struck out on everyone else. None of that had to do with money and neither did Randolph’s recruitment.

My argument is that we could not pay the kids, for obvious reasons. I think that was a big factor, along with probation/sanctions. Read what Thomas Bryant's mother said. Chaos at Syracuse. With the reduced scholly's, her kid didn't think we'd be able to recruit players that would compete for a title.

Billy Preston had it down to Kansas, USC and Syracuse. KU pays, USC's Tony Bland was thrown in jail for accepting bribes. Preston was never picking Cuse.

We don't know Randolph didn't get paid. Sean Miller was paying a lot of kids.

 

[Alsacs]

My argument is that we could not pay the kids, for obvious reasons. I think that was a big factor, along with probation/sanctions. Read what Thomas Bryant's mother said. Chaos at Syracuse. With the reduced scholly's, her kid didn't think we'd be able to recruit players that would compete for a title.

Billy Preston had it down to Kansas, USC and Syracuse. KU pays, USC's Tony Bland was thrown in jail for accepting bribes. Preston was never picking Cuse.

We don't know Randolph didn't get paid. Sean Miller was paying a lot of kids.

We could not pay kids for obvious reasons?

So you think we used to pay kids?
I don’t think we “paid” for Tyus Battle or paid for recruits.

It wasn’t the schools paying anyway. They were using their shoe company handlers to do the dirty work.

You don’t know what happened on Randolph’s visit to Syracuse? We do, I am not going to say here as it doesn’t speak highly of a former player and don’t want to stoke that debate. Our recruiting blue chip top 25 guys has dried because I believe JB wouldn’t cheat and that is to his credit.

The top 25 guys aren’t our problem it’s top 50 kids we should be getting. Our recruiting hasn’t been as good as it used to be and that is on the HC.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Our recruiting blue chip top 25 guys has dried because I believe JB wouldn’t cheat and that is to his credit.

We agree.

So how are we going to get the Billy Preston's and Naz Reid's when we don't cheat? How is that on the HC?

The De Souza kid got $20,000 and he wasn't a Top 25 kid.

 

[Mareiniss]

I wonder if grad transfers are getting bags too.

 

[Gotothehole]

Oh so we don’t have bags this is why we suck at recruiting. Guess Rutgers, Seton Hall, Nova and Penn State have bigger bags and that’s why they have better players and teams. Got it

 

[Alsacs]

We agree.

So how are we going to get the Billy Preston's and Naz Reid's when we don't cheat? How is that on the HC?

The De Souza kid got $20,000 and he wasn't a Top 25 kid.

I am going to be nice.

How does Villanova get talent every year? How does Virginia? How does Gonzaga?
Everyone buys recruits except Syracuse?
My god.
The HC's job is too bring in talent. The level you take to defend any criticism is just maddening. I am pro-Jim Boeheim. RF is pro-Jim Boeheim. He can take the blinders off and be objective. By this take's logic the HC can do no wrong.
Even he admits he has done a poor job recruiting bigs.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Oh so we don’t have bags this is why we suck at recruiting. Guess Rutgers, Seton Hall, Nova and Penn State have bigger bags and that’s why they have better players and teams. Got it

You know those schools (minus nova) would trade 99.8% of their years with us, right?

 

[Gotothehole]

You know those schools (minus nova) would trade 99.8% of their years with us, right?

You’re right but we don’t live in the past, Stop trying to defend poor recruiting and on court results

 

[Halfmooncuse]

They were all promised a piece of the Domes roof.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

You know those schools (minus nova) would trade 99.8% of their years with us, right?

That's great, if next year had anything to do with 87/96/03.
I have a bad feeling those three or four of those teams are going to be ranked top 25 and we won't. And some of us will still be trash-talking 'Rutgirls.' : )

 

[SU94]

I am going to be nice.

How does Villanova get talent every year? How does Virginia? How does Gonzaga?
Everyone buys recruits except Syracuse?
My god.
The HC's job is too bring in talent. The level you take to defend any criticism is just maddening. I am pro-Jim Boeheim. RF is pro-Jim Boeheim. He can take the blinders off and be objective. By this take's logic the HC can do no wrong.
Even he admits he has done a poor job recruiting bigs.

Easy killer. You said it yourself: SU has been, for somewhere between 12-25 years, fighting a bit uphill on the recruiting landscape. That’s why we aren’t getting prime talent, and now even top 50 talent has been elusive at times.

That is going to lend to some uneven results. Uneven means less than desirable, so that is a degree a criticism of JAB. He’s many things, ... but perfect is not on the list.

But smart people (and there aren’t a lot of them on this board these days) understand the context of the recruiting landscape and recognizing our program’s strong (well above average) ability to find underrated talent and then develop it. That is what has what has kept things flowing rather well. Two Final Fours this decade (three this millennium) is nothing to sneeze at. Neither is a crap load of first-round picks.

Big wins over just about every relevant program, from Michigan State to Gonzaga to Michigan to Duke to Florida to Kentucky to to Kansas to Virginia. We’re spoiled. Like big time.

It’s really tough out there and everything is changing. Sneaker camps begat AAU. Pay for play has become way way more prevalent. Transferring (the portal) is akin to free agency in MLB or the NBA. Outside shooting (thanks Steph, thanks Pitino) is way different than it was even 10-12 years ago, let alone 30. Duke, Kansas and Kentucky combined to monopolize about 14-15 of the top 20 recruits every year thanks to the one-and-done and roster purging.

JAB read all this crap a long time ago. And so we have a system that works around our limitations. Probably not unlike Navy football, just at a higher level in a different sport. We play a 2-3 and largely prioritize length over strength. It is unorthodox, but it has mostly been brilliant.

Anyone can make a case for a refresh and it is likely time, or at least near time. It is coming. But this is what the program is and has been for about the last 25 years. And it will be for three more seasons. Just don’t act so surprised or indignant at the results. We are the Atlanta Braves of the 1990s and (the first half of the 2000s) JAB is Bobby Cox.

By 2023, hopefully we will get our wish and Hop will return, which would be ironic in the truest sense in that dozens here vilified him for a 4-5 stretch over 9 games about 5 years ago (think about the stupidity of that). This is a fu(ked up joint.

But in the end, we’re all one big happy family. This is SU basketball. It ain’t changing just yet, no matter how many opinions (sorry, you call them facts) you spew.

 

[Sherman20]

I’d say the emergence of Virgina, Notre Dame and FSU has made the ACC a lot tougher. More good teams makes it’s harder to win. Throw in Duke, UNC and Louisville. Finishing 6th or 7th in the ACC ain’t that bad.

I still don’t understand why/how we’ve fallen behind a program like Gonzaga in terms of consistent winning and regular Top 25 seasons. No one has been able to explain it to me in a way that makes any clear sense.

 

[Briancuse]

I still don’t understand why/how we’ve fallen behind a program like Gonzaga in terms of consistent winning and regular Top 25 seasons. No one has been able to explain it to me in a way that makes any clear sense.

We stopped recruiting. Gonzaga has a top 5 kid coming in next year. I'd kill for someone in the top 50. And yes I know Dior is coming in two years.

 

[Mareiniss]

This article by a Duke basketball fan site projects an incoming freshman starting at center for them in 2020-21, with Tapé coming off the bench:

The projected Duke basketball starting five for next season

All the pieces to the 2020-21 Duke basketball roster just about look to be in place, which calls for this prediction of the starting lineup and the backups.

balldurham.com