Class of 2020 Patrick Tapé / Columbia Grad Transfer

[DilemaCuse]

I see both sides of the argument
I sometimes wonder if our "tactics" changed after the sanctions?

Here is something that is rarely mentioned, we would not have as much hand wringing if Bazley came and performed at a high level and left after 1 year and if Carey the next highest rated guy in that class had performed as the staff had hoped. If Carey was a 2 and done like he dreamed and the coaches thought was possible like Dion and MCW, how much different is this debate?

We had a prior JR class that was so-so with Brisset Marek, Dole, and then a lousy sophomore class that is led by the coaches son. Those 2 classes has set the program back years combined with a Fr class that is nice but is mostly program- 4 year type guys. So were now playing talent level catch up to compete with the elite. Staff needs to pound the portal and start sending out more class of 21 offers because there are a lot of scholarships to fill when the roster loses more than it has coming in.

 

[hoopsupstate]

It seems pretty obvious that after both NCAA sanctions our recruiting took major hits. It makes you wonder what SU stopped doing. I’m not naive enough to think SU was/is squeaky clean. Over time recruiting picked back up.

 

[Alsacs]

I see both sides of the argument
I sometimes wonder if our "tactics" changed after the sanctions?

Here is something that is rarely mentioned, we would not have as much hand wringing if Bazley came and performed at a high level and left after 1 year and if Carey the next highest rated guy in that class had performed as the staff had hoped. If Carey was a 2 and done like he dreamed and the coaches thought was possible like Dion and MCW, how much different is this debate?

We had a prior JR class that was so-so with Brisset Marek, Dole, and then a lousy sophomore class that is led by the coaches son. Those 2 classes has set the program back years combined with a Fr class that is nice but is mostly program- 4 year type guys. So were now playing talent level catch up to compete with the elite. Staff needs to pound the portal and start sending out more class of 21 offers because there are a lot of scholarships to fill when the roster loses more than it has coming in.

What good 2021 guard is going to want to come here?

They see the incumbents ahead of them.
They see our 2022 commit.
We need a portal guard who will sit out and not lose a year sitting behind the incumbents.

We need 2021 HS forwards.
The short rotations are necessitated because the team needs them to not bottom out as development could cost us games.
The problem is today kids don’t want to wait and the short rotations should be when your talent is really good.
Our talent isn’t really good. It’s okay but because we play for the now it causes us to stay where we are. Which is 6 straight mediocre seasons.

It makes sense to play Hakim Warrick, Mike Gbinjne(Sr), Elijah Hughes this year as many minutes as possible but some of the players we have seen become marathon men.

 

[Alsacs]

It seems pretty obvious that after both NCAA sanctions our recruiting took major hits. It makes you wonder what SU stopped doing. I’m not naive enough to think SU was/is squeaky clean. Over time recruiting picked back up.

We made the Final Four in 2016 sanctions aren’t why recruiting stopped.
it wasn’t till last recruiting class we stopped prioritizing length to shooting.

The problem has been we haven’t been balanced. You need
2 quality PGs
4 quality SG/SF/Fs to mix and match.
2 quality bigs PF/Cs
That is only 10 of 13 scholarships.

We haven’t had this in a while.
The 2016 team probably would haven’t been mediocre in the regular season as much if JB didn’t get suspended.
They won B4A but we had bad losses that season and is on the record.

We need better recruiting and roster management.
We play too many guys too many minutes who aren’t good enough for it but have no other options. That is the coaches job.

We should haven’t 3 scholarships for walkons next year. That would be a terrible job. We need another HS recruit or transfers doesn’t matter if they are sit out a year or grad.

 

[DilemaCuse]

What good 2021 guard is going to want to come here?

They see the incumbents ahead of them.

Your right, thats the problem, they see JB married to his son and JG

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Oh so we don’t have bags this is why we suck at recruiting. Guess Rutgers, Seton Hall, Nova and Penn State have bigger bags and that’s why they have better players and teams. Got it

Could very well be.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I am going to be nice.

How does Villanova get talent every year? How does Virginia? How does Gonzaga?
Everyone buys recruits except Syracuse?
My god.
The HC's job is too bring in talent. The level you take to defend any criticism is just maddening. I am pro-Jim Boeheim. RF is pro-Jim Boeheim. He can take the blinders off and be objective. By this take's logic the HC can do no wrong.
Even he admits he has done a poor job recruiting bigs.

No, I don‘t think so. We recruited Cole Swider and he picked Villanova. He may turn into a good player, but to date, he hasn‘t really done much. I think Nova and UVA have a similar model. They recruit 4 year kids with a star mixed in. Think we are doing the same.

The HC’s Job is to bring in talent. That’s correct. He recrutied Naz Reid, a really good player out of NJ. That kid had Syracuse in his Top 4, at one point,. Then Arizona and LSU got into a bidding war for him. We had no shot.

JB had Billy Preston on campus for a visit, 6-10, great scorer, and really long. Perfect fit. That kid got $100k to attend Kansas. We had no shot.

There are likely a lot more. Do you think Kobe Simmons didn’t get paid to attend Arizona? Rawle Alkins did. Same class.

You can pretend the sanctions didn’t matter, despite common sense (Thomas Bryant‘s mother said they sure did, and we had no scholarship for Heurter, both of those kids are in the NBA). You can say players we were recruiting that got paid didn’t matter (Of course it did, as they picked other schools that paid them) You can continue to bury your head in the sand, stomp your feet and continue your agenda to constantly blame Boehiem. It doesn't matter. There’s nothing objective in your posts about Boeheim. Cmon.

Clearly there were other factors. Boeheim’s retirement, Hopkins leaving, etc. Heck, Hopkins took the last year or two off from recruiting. But let’s not pretend what actually happened, didn’t happen. That’s just silly.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Could very well be.

Also, wouldn’t say we suck at recruiting. Didn’t we just sign a big time Pg? We keep churning out NBA draft picks. Maybe that‘s part of the problem. Keep losing really good players.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

No, I don‘t think so. We recruited Cole Swider and he picked Villanova. He may turn into a good player, but to date, he hasn‘t really done much. I think Nova and UVA have a similar model. They recruit 4 year kids with a star mixed in. Think we are doing the same.

The HC’s Job is to bring in talent. That’s correct. He recrutied Naz Reid, a really good player out of NJ. That kid has Syracuse in his Top 4, at one point,. Then Arizona and LSU got into a bidding war for him. We had no shot.

JB had Billy Preston on campus for a visit, 6-10, great scorer, and really long. Perfect fit. That kid got $100k to attend Kansas. We had no shot.

There are likely a lot more. Do you think Kobe Simmons didn’t get paid to attend Arizona? Rawle Alkins did. Same class.

You can pretend the sanctions didn’t matter, despite common sense (Thomas Bryant‘s mother said they sure did, and we had no scholarship for Heurter, both of those kids are in the NBA). You can say players we were recruiting didn’t matter (Of course it did, as they picked other schools that paid them) You can continue to bury your head in the sand, stomp your feet and continue your agenda to constantly blame Boehiem. It doesn't matter.

Clearly there were other factors. Boeheim’s retirement, Hopkins leaving, etc. Heck, Hopkins took the last year or two off from recruiting. But let’s not pretend what actually happened, didn’t happen. That’s just silly.

So, if Mike Hopkins took the last 2 years off from recruiting (I agree with at least 1 year) before he left, why was he able to bring several players (3-4) over the next few years to Washington from our area. He retained his recruiting contacts with several recruits. Who is our major recruiter? Gerry Mc, Adrian Autry or Allen Griffin? Need HC JAB to get more involved. He depended too much on Hopkins.

I know that Boeheim gave Gerry Mc recruiting opportunity for awhile but that has not really paid off (Matt Moyer, Ron Patterson, Bourama Sidibe and Brycen Goodine) yet. Three of the players transferred. Who is the lead for Dior Johnson?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

So, if Mike Hopkins took the last 2 years off from recruiting (I agree with at least 1 year) before he left, why was he able to bring several players (3-4) over the next few years to Washington from our area. He retained his recruiting contacts with several recruits. Who is our major recruiter? Gerry Mc, Adrian Autry or Allen Griffin? Need HC JAB to get more involved. He depended too much on Hopkins.

I know that Boeheim gave Gerry Mc recruiting opportunity for awhile but that has not really paid off (Matt Moyer, Ron Patterson, Bourama Sidibe and Brycen Goodine) yet. Three of the players transferred. Who is the lead for Dior Johnson?

Hop is a great recruiter, no question. I do think JB let’s give his assistants free reign. I go to Peach Jam and some other tournaments on occasion and they are all here. Red, Griff, Gmac, JB. These guys spot talent and JB gets involved. He was all over Bazely, Carey, and that kid that ended up at Washinton-Roberts? I spoke to recruiting guru Tom Konchalski at Peach Jam. We were watching Bazely. He told me I ought to be watching Buddy, as he can really play. He was right.

Obviously, we miss Hopkins. Hope he comes back when JB retires. Funny thing is JB told Hop, if you leave you’d better win, or they may not want you back. He better get back to winning.

Think Gmac was the one on Dior.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

You’re right but we don’t live in the past, Stop trying to defend poor recruiting and on court results

Stop following the program if all you’re doing is crying and whining. I know JB personally and he has ALOT of faults but one thing for sure is...we would never have a year like UNC just had.

 

[Alsacs]

No, I don‘t think so. We recruited Cole Swider and he picked Villanova. He may turn into a good player, but to date, he hasn‘t really done much. I think Nova and UVA have a similar model. They recruit 4 year kids with a star mixed in. Think we are doing the same.

The HC’s Job is to bring in talent. That’s correct. He recrutied Naz Reid, a really good player out of NJ. That kid had Syracuse in his Top 4, at one point,. Then Arizona and LSU got into a bidding war for him. We had no shot.

JB had Billy Preston on campus for a visit, 6-10, great scorer, and really long. Perfect fit. That kid got $100k to attend Kansas. We had no shot.

There are likely a lot more. Do you think Kobe Simmons didn’t get paid to attend Arizona? Rawle Alkins did. Same class.

You can pretend the sanctions didn’t matter, despite common sense (Thomas Bryant‘s mother said they sure did, and we had no scholarship for Heurter, both of those kids are in the NBA). You can say players we were recruiting that got paid didn’t matter (Of course it did, as they picked other schools that paid them) You can continue to bury your head in the sand, stomp your feet and continue your agenda to constantly blame Boehiem. It doesn't matter. There’s nothing objective in your posts about Boeheim. Cmon.

Clearly there were other factors. Boeheim’s retirement, Hopkins leaving, etc. Heck, Hopkins took the last year or two off from recruiting. But let’s not pretend what actually happened, didn’t happen. That’s just silly.

We deserve to be mediocre for this post.
We deserve it.

Hopkins didn’t take 2 years off from recruiting. He recruited Lydon to SU.
Mike Hopkins recruited Malachi Richardson to SU.

The last year Hop was here he didn’t recruit well and you won’t care to discuss the truth as to why that happened.

Hop was taking over the program in 2018. He wasn’t getting to make changes he wanted. This stuff has been documented enough I am not going to flood it again.

Hopkins wasn’t the HC. So if it’s the assistant HC’s fault he didn’t recruit well one year that is a pass for the HC not doing his job recruiting. JB was not doing a good job recruiting during that time. He only became more invigorated after Hop left.

Let’s pretend what didn’t happen? Hop was bad for one cycle? So that is a pass for the HC?

The current state of the program is on the HC? It’s not blame. You don’t like it.
Sorry the HC has admitted he has done a poor job recruiting bigs.

Sanctions are over. They aren’t a reason our roster currently has 3 guards total and a roster not equipped to compete for the top of the conference again.

You just like fighting. I can’t stand that type of logic. Look at the program and see things at what they are.

We all want to win. Nobody expects to be Duke or Kentucky every year.

The program used to be elite. If that isn’t going be the case and people need to adjust to the new reality that is a way better argument then the crap you throw about players being bought.

 

[Alsacs]

Stop following the program if all you’re doing is crying and whining. I know JB personally and he has ALOT of faults but one thing for sure is...we would never have a year like UNC just had.

North Carolina’s last 5 seasons
2019-2020: 14-19
2018-2019: 29-7
2017-2018: 26-11
2016-2017: 33-7 NC
2015-2016: 33-7 NC runnerup

Yeah I think their fanbase is 99% okay with this season.

This logic is great but you personally know JB so it’s cool.

 

[orangefog]

Stop following the program if all you’re doing is crying and whining. I know JB personally and he has ALOT of faults but one thing for sure is...we would never have a year like UNC just had.

Can we start a thread discussing JB’s many faults?

 

[Gotothehole]

Stop following the program if all you’re doing is crying and whining. I know JB personally and he has ALOT of faults but one thing for sure is...we would never have a year like UNC just had.

First of all JB is a university employee. If he’s not doing his job and the team and been substandard for multiple years he should be held accountable like any other employee. This is the same man who openly admitted that he under recruited the center position for years and you are defending subpar performance. Time for him to go. Since you know so much why don’t you ask the AAU coaches what they think

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Let’s pretend what didn’t happen?

Sanctions and players getting paid.

Sanctions are over.

They are now. But they have been going on for 5 years, which is the period of recruiting you're constantly complaining about.

They aren’t a reason our roster currently has 3 guards total and a roster not equipped to compete for the top of the conference again.

We just had 3 guards transfer. Guards that were not good. That's pretty typical of a lot of programs to have players leave if they are unhappy with their playing time. Look at the transfer portal.

You just like fighting. I can’t stand that type of logic. Look at the program and see things at what they are.

No, I'm telling you why things are the way they are. You just don't like it because you just want to blame JB.

 

[upperdeck]

ganzaga also has like 2 tough games a yr in the league and things add up to help recruiting.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

First of all JB is a university employee. If he’s not doing his job and the team and been substandard for multiple years he should be held accountable like any other employee. This is the same man who openly admitted that he under recruited the center position for years and you are defending subpar performance

Held accountable how? Sub-standard? JB set the standard. Cuse was in the tourney last year, and missed it this year. Wildhak is aware of the sanctions, pay for play scandals, Hop leaving etc.

JB had a young team that lost 4 starters. Still won 18 games, and tied for 6th in the conference. Team got better as the year went on, and wasn't far from 21-22 wins.

 

[Gotothehole]

Held accountable how? Sub-standard? JB set the standard. Cuse was in the tourney last year, and missed it this year. Wildhak is aware of the sanctions, pay for play scandals, Hop leaving etc.

JB had a young team that lost 4 starters. Still won 18 games, and tied for 6th in the conference. Team got better as the year went on, and wasn't far from 21-22 wins.

When Penn State Oklahoma State blows us out that’s not a problem ? Any team with a center at any level looks like shaq against us, but that not a problem.

 

[malpearl31]

I still don’t understand why/how we’ve fallen behind a program like Gonzaga in terms of consistent winning and regular Top 25 seasons. No one has been able to explain it to me in a way that makes any clear sense.

Consistent winning is a little easier to do when you get 16-18 games per season against Portland, Pacific, Pepperdine, San Francisco, etc... and then get to schedule yourself around 10 other non-conference cupcakes on top of the ones you already get in the WCC. Now they just have to keep this current run going for another 21 years or so just to catch up to where we are right now!

As good as Gonzaga has been over the past 20 or so years - and don't misunderstand me, I think Mark Few is an amazing coach and I have nothing but respect for him and the program he's built and sustained - it's worth noting that they have 1 Final Four appearance and 0 National Championships during this run.

 

[Sherman20]

I think it‘s just harder to win. More teams have more talent. When you see mid majors like Dayton, Creighton, San Diego St, and Gonzaga competing for titles, that tells me a lot of teams are a lot better.

I’m not saying there’s not some validity to the argument that there’s more talent and it’s more spread out throughout the P5 schools and mid majors. But what happened to us? How did we lose our mojo? How have other historically elite East Coast schools like Maryland and Nova and midwestern ones like Michigan State, Michigan and Louisville been able to maintain consistency and mostly regular top 25 seasons? We’re not Duke or Kansas, but all of those other schools mentioned have historically been peer programs to Syracuse and haven’t experienced our downturn into middling conference finishes? Michigan, Louisville and Maryland have even navigated recent-ish coaching changes and maintained success.

 

[malpearl31]

I’m not saying there’s not some validity to the argument that there’s more talent and it’s more spread out throughout the P5 schools and mid majors. But what happened to us? How did we lose our mojo? How have other historically elite East Coast schools like Maryland and Nova and midwestern ones like Michigan State, Michigan and Louisville been able to maintain consistency and mostly regular top 25 seasons? We’re not Duke or Kansas, but all of those other schools mentioned have historically been peer programs to Syracuse and haven’t experienced our downturn into middling conference finishes? Michigan, Louisville and Maryland have even navigated recent-ish coaching changes and maintained success.

Are we really a level below Maryland, though? It's not like they've been killing it since they moved to the Big 10... nothing higher than a 4-seed and nothing better than one Sweet 16 appearance (obviously prior to this year)... their 4-star twin big men transferred out because they weren't happy.

I think we know why we've been behind a program like Louisville (who we still regularly beat on the court, btw). But Michigan has been up and down, with multiple double-digit loss seasons and a missed tournament recently. We're right there with the Michigans and the Marylands of the world... even with the current downturn we find ourselves in...

 

[Alsacs]

Are we really a level below Maryland, though? It's not like they've been killing it since they moved to the Big 10... nothing higher than a 4-seed and nothing better than one Sweet 16 appearance (obviously prior to this year)... their 4-star twin big men transferred out because they weren't happy.

I think we know why we've been behind a program like Louisville (who we still regularly beat on the court, btw). But Michigan has been up and down, with multiple double-digit loss seasons and a missed tournament recently. We're right there with the Michigans and the Marylands of the world... even with the current downturn we find ourselves in...

From 2011-2020
Michigan missed the NCAA tournament 1 time(they were making the tournament this season before it got cancelled)
They made the sweet 16 the 3 previous tournaments.
2 conference tournaments in 17 and 18.
Every season but 2015-2016 the last 6 years they were relevant.

We are below Michigan now. We missed the tournament 3 times.

Maryland we are better than because Final Fours matter.
They are more relevant during the regular season. Our postseasons make things slightly to our side better.

6 consecutive mediocre regular seasons though have hurt our standing nationally.
We aren’t a pillar anymore. We are a dangerous team when we make the tournament.

The reason we aren’t as dangerous anymore is the talent isn’t stacked on the roster anymore.

Just like Florida State had to move on from Bowden Syracuse is going to have to do the same with Boeheim.

He is 75. He is impossible to replace and program will take a step back when he retires. It won’t destroy the program though. The program will be fine as long as the talent is found by the next coach.
Xs and Os will not be the same but again in basketball coaching isn’t as important as football.

 

[chugg21]

From 2011-2020
Michigan missed the NCAA tournament 1 time(they were making the tournament this season before it got cancelled)
They made the sweet 16 the 3 previous tournaments.
2 conference tournaments in 17 and 18.
Every season but 2015-2016 the last 6 years they were relevant.

We are below Michigan now. We missed the tournament 3 times.

Maryland we are better than because Final Fours matter.
They are more relevant during the regular season. Our postseasons make things slightly to our side better.

6 consecutive mediocre regular seasons though have hurt our standing nationally.
We aren’t a pillar anymore. We are a dangerous team when we make the tournament.

The reason we aren’t as dangerous anymore is the talent isn’t stacked on the roster anymore.

Just like Florida State had to move on from Bowden Syracuse is going to have to do the same with Boeheim.

He is 75. He is impossible to replace and program will take a step back when he retires. It won’t destroy the program though. The program will be fine as long as the talent is found by the next coach.
Xs and Os will not be the same but again in basketball coaching isn’t as important as football.

I wouldn't even assume that we will take a step back when someone new takes over. We still have a program that just finished 3rd in revenue out of 300+ schools. Things have gotten stale as would be expected when someone stays in one job for 40+ years. Not a lot of 75 year olds exist in the world that are still doing the same job they were doing when they were 35 and certainly aren't doing it with the same level of enthusiasm. Its just the way life is.

 

[Gotothehole]

59 Syracuse ACC 18-14. Numbers don't lie