Pay that man his money.

[Alsacs]

I think this is the most important point which leads nowhere except Dino should be inking a new deal right away. The fanbase has suffered for far too long. For 15+ years (give or take a few blips), the University has completely let the fanbase down when it comes to the football program. The GRob years. The fanbase tried to rally during the late Marrone years. Then, suddenly, the carpet was ripped right back out from underneath us. They then went on the cheap and hired Shafer, which unfortunately was a return to the GRob years. Let's carry this a bit further.. the University announced that they were analyzing options for a Dome renovation, or replacement. That was over a year ago. Not a peep since.

While most of us around here are diehards, the fact that the Dome barely sells 40K tickets to see the defending National Champion come to town tells the entire story. The diehards cannot support the revival of a storied program on our own. The show-me fans (those above the bandwagon, but below the diehards), are just starting to believe again. At the same time, they're all extremely hesitant to commit to being a part of the ultimate solution, because they have been fooled time and again.

It's time for the University to step up. It's time for them to demonstrate to those show-me fans their commitment to us. They need to do it in a big way. The fanbase, by and large, believes that Dino is the man to bring the football program back to notoriety. They need to deliver the message to their support system that they are committed to US. The cheapest way they can capitalize on this buzz is to double down on Dino and his staff; and it needs to be delivered PUBLICLY.

Walk with me a moment... Imagine SU announcing that Dino Babers and his staff have inked extensions. The fanbase will be pleased and on that alone (I would bet a significant amount of money on this), the University will offset a large chunk of that on season ticket sales for next season. If they could then somehow get their together and one week later announce the full details related to their plans for the Dome, the local buzz will actually dip below that show-me layer and into the bandwagon layer. Take a moment and visualize the impact that chain of events would have on the psyche of the fanbase.

I'm tired of waiting, hoping, only to be shrouded in disappointment because the University bungles another opportunity. That is why the University needs to ink these extensions now. It's time for the University to show me that my investment (donations) are going to generate a return (joy of watching this program rise from the ashes)!

The line has been drawn.

This post shouldn’t be buried here.

Bravo.

 

[MadNY3]

This post shouldn’t be buried here.

Bravo.

I suspect you don’t have a lot of experience in business.

No one was saying this after MTSU. One upset changes many’s inferiority complex about football.

I get the Internet is an awesome avenue to waste time or vent, but the drama on this thread is devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

 

[Orangepace]

I suspect you don’t have a lot of experience in business.

No one was saying this after MTSU. One upset changes many’s inferiority complex about football.

I get the Internet is an awesome avenue to waste time or vent, but the drama on this thread is devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

Really? Please explain how my post was devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

To give a little background... I just turned 36 years old and have been the Chief Financial Officer of a Nasdaq traded public homebuilder for 2 years now. This homebuilder barely survived the downturn and as of year end 2016 had stifled through 10 straight years of losses (this analogizes very well with the last 15+ years of Syracuse football I noted in my post above). The homebuilder market is still soft outside of a few major metro areas, however, we've now turned our first two profitable quarters. This too analogizes well with what's happening with the football program currently. We're not completely out of the woods, but the light is starting to shine through.

During that 10-yr span, our retail investors became uber cautious and the institutional investors are all but gone (again, analogizes to the show-me fans). Fortunately for the Company, I'm not one to rest on what I deem to be a minor success and just keep plugging along hoping it'll all work out in the end (you paying attention Syracuse Administration?). Instead, I'm chasing a transformative transaction that will not only bring those cautious investor groups back to the table, but rather bring the institutional investors back knocking at OUR doors, instead of vice versa (refer to call for the extension and plans for the Dome to be finalized). This transaction almost assuredly will land me on the Washington D.C.'s 40-under-40 list in the next 2 years.

I'm not patting myself on the back, instead I'm trying to make sure that we're ready to capitalize on the free publicity and spotlight that will bring to the Company. Otherwise, I could care less about putting my face on some yearbook type list. So, as you can see, I not only have quite an accomplished business acumen at quite a young age, but also a vision for greater things and a strategy which I quarterbacked for executing against those plans.

I could very easily just sit back and let my resume carry me the rest of the way (recent history analogizes to the fact that the Administration keeps calling for the fans to come back and for donors to line up and write checks). At this point, I have accomplished more, in such a short period, than even I thought imaginable just 14 years ago when I graduated from Ithaca (hi Dino). My family is pretty much set from this point forward financially (ACC checks will keep coming). Hell no I say. The Company needs to capitalize on the momentum and show it's commitment to generating greater returns for our shareholders. That analogizes to what I said in my previous post. The fans and donors want to believe. Show them they have something to believe in.

Please before throwing statements around on the internet, such as "devoid of significant business reality or sanity," realize that reality is what you make of it.

 

[Alsacs]

I suspect you don’t have a lot of experience in business.

No one was saying this after MTSU. One upset changes many’s inferiority complex about football.

I get the Internet is an awesome avenue to waste time or vent, but the drama on this thread is devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

This post does nothing except to try and cause a reaction to continue what you complain about on the other side.

I won’t respond any further have a good evening/day.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Really? Please explain how my post was devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

To give a little background... I just turned 36 years old and have been the Chief Financial Officer of a Nasdaq traded public homebuilder for 2 years now. This homebuilder barely survived the downturn and as of year end 2016 had stifled through 10 straight years of losses (this analogizes very well with the last 15+ years of Syracuse football I noted in my post above). The homebuilder market is still soft outside of a few major metro areas, however, we've now turned our first two profitable quarters. This too analogizes well with what's happening with the football program currently. We're not completely out of the woods, but the light is starting to shine through.

During that 10-yr span, our retail investors became uber cautious and the institutional investors are all but gone (again, analogizes to the show-me fans). Fortunately for the Company, I'm not one to rest on what I deem to be a minor success and just keep plugging along hoping it'll all work out in the end (you paying attention Syracuse Administration?). Instead, I'm chasing a transformative transaction that will not only bring those cautious investor groups back to the table, but rather bring the institutional investors back knocking at OUR doors, instead of vice versa (refer to call for the extension and plans for the Dome to be finalized). This transaction almost assuredly will land me on the Washington D.C.'s 40-under-40 list in the next 2 years.

I'm not patting myself on the back, instead I'm trying to make sure that we're ready to capitalize on the free publicity and spotlight that will bring to the Company. Otherwise, I could care less about putting my face on some yearbook type list. So, as you can see, I not only have quite an accomplished business acumen at quite a young age, but also a vision for greater things and a strategy which I quarterbacked for executing against those plans.

I could very easily just sit back and let my resume carry me the rest of the way (recent history analogizes to the fact that the Administration keeps calling for the fans to come back and for donors to line up and write checks). At this point, I have accomplished more, in such a short period, than even I thought imaginable just 14 years ago when I graduated from Ithaca (hi Dino). My family is pretty much set from this point forward financially (ACC checks will keep coming). Hell no I say. The Company needs to capitalize on the momentum and show it's commitment to generating greater returns for our shareholders. That analogizes to what I said in my previous post. The fans and donors want to believe. Show them they have something to believe in.

Please before throwing statements around on the internet, such as "devoid of significant business reality or sanity," realize that reality is what you make of it.

All well and good but wouldn't make you right in this situation, IMO and I will keep my resume to myself, thank you. Plenty of ways to skin the cat

 

[Scooch]

 

[TheCusian]

I suspect you don’t have a lot of experience in business.

No one was saying this after MTSU. One upset changes many’s inferiority complex about football.

I get the Internet is an awesome avenue to waste time or vent, but the drama on this thread is devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

Dude, college sports is devoid of significant business reality or sanity, CFB is chief among them.

No one would be clamoring to give Dino a raise if we lived in a sane reality. But we don't. The market is such that schools have tons of money (that should be going to the workers, er players) and the one area outside of expensive building projects that you can stand out among your peers is with a coach.

 

[Pyle]

Your last line is the contentious point, though. I don't understand "you give him a new deal" absolutism. We have no insight into the conversations our AD and head coach have been having. We don't even know the terms of Dino's contract.

I think we all agree that Babers is making substantial progress and that, barring some kind of scandal or catastrophic set of circumstances, we'd like to see him coach SU for the foreseeable future.

Where there is disagreement is regarding the urgent -- hell, almost FRANTIC -- pleading for SU to extend him now.

NOW.

Like Veruca Salt throwing a tantrum.

And I've seen this dynamic play out here 100 times. The demanding begins and then it snowballs into "SU never does anything!!1!1!! Why aren't they *doing* things?!?!" within weeks, if not days.

Here's what it boils down to IMO. You said substantial progress. I think that's like saying Kate Upton is sort of attractive. It's been more than substantial. Last year he brought in a graduate transfer WR who barely saw the field for his prior team and made him one of the best WRs in the country. At the beginning of the year, we kept hearing posters claiming we are really missing AET. Now Ishmael has made AET a distant memory.
We have set almost every single passing record in the history of the school in the past two years.
We have knocked off a top 25 team each of Baber's years on campus and we had the most significant win in the Dome since 1984 happen this year.
Recruiting looks better that it has in years.

But that's not all, what else do you have for them Bob? How about a team that's been competitive against every single team we've played this year. MTSU was a damn fluke, Shafer got in the heads of everybody and somehow black magic'ed his way to some bizarro win. Looking at the body of work from the rest of this season shows a team on the brink of greatness. I started this season with the attitude that Dino needs to be held accountable now, no more Shafer excuses. Well that works both ways. We are competitive to a degree we haven't seen in a long time on the road. We have one of the nation's most improved defenses(this was huge for me). We are setting school offense records every time we take the field. People are excited about SU football, and I don't just mean the locals.

One more point, Dino has fled both of his last gigs after 2 years. Based on the way we are playing, it's not completely unrealistic to think we could win out. If we do I don't care what Dino's buyout is, some 10 gallon hat, 3lb belt buckle, oil mogul or whatever could probably pay the whole thing in one big donation. Losing Dino at this point in the rebuild would be disastrous.

 

[TheCusian]

Why are you guys making this so damn complicated?>

Here's what it boils down to IMO. You said substantial progress. I think that's like saying Kate Upton is sort of attractive. It's been more than substantial. Last year he brought in a graduate transfer WR who barely saw the field for his prior team and made him one of the best WRs in the country. At the beginning of the year, we kept hearing posters claiming we are really missing AET. Now Ishmael has made AET a distant memory.
We have set almost every single passing record in the history of the school in the past two years.
We have knocked off a top 25 team each of Baber's years on campus and we had the most significant win in the Dome since 1984 happen this year.
Recruiting looks better that it has in years.

But that's not all, what else do you have for them Bob? How about a team that's been competitive against every single team we've played this year. MTSU was a damn fluke, Shafer got in the heads of everybody and somehow black magic'ed his way to some bizarro win. Looking at the body of work from the rest of this season shows a team on the brink of greatness. I started this season with the attitude that Dino needs to be held accountable now, no more Shafer excuses. Well that works both ways. We are competitive to a degree we haven't seen in a long time on the road. We have one of the nation's most improved defenses(this was huge for me). We are setting school offense records every time we take the field. People are excited about SU football, and I don't just mean the locals.

One more point, Dino has fled both of his last gigs after 2 years. Based on the way we are playing, it's not completely unrealistic to think we could win out. If we do I don't care what Dino's buyout is, some 10 gallon hat, 3lb belt buckle, oil mogul or whatever could probably pay the whole thing in one big donation. Losing Dino at this point in the rebuild would be disastrous.

100%.

I'd add that we're breaking offensive records - and the offense is running at about 2/3 what it could be. Tempo distorts things - but it also shows that damn ceiling is through the roof.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I was wondering if these "extend coach x" talks got smarter since 2012.

They have not.

 

[Pyle]

I suspect you don’t have a lot of experience in business.

No one was saying this after MTSU. One upset changes many’s inferiority complex about football.

I get the Internet is an awesome avenue to waste time or vent, but the drama on this thread is devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

It's foolish to think sanity is the driving force behind anything football related south of the Mason-Dixon. If they want Dino, they will do the insane to get him. To think the college football race is like anything the corporate business world...well that's not reality. Southern school don't care about profit margins, they will spend anything to win, anything.

 

[Bayside44]

It's foolish to think sanity is the driving force behind anything football related south of the Mason-Dixon. If they want Dino, they will do the insane to get him. To think the college football race is like anything the corporate business world...well that's not reality. Southern school don't care about profit margins, they will spend anything to win, anything.

If they spend to dome their stadiums he's gone.

He's not Saban, he's running a system unique to the Dome.

 

[TheCusian]

I was wondering if these "extend coach x" talks got smarter since 2012.

They have not.

Not a lot to go on here. What’s the issue?

 

[TheCusian]

If they spend to dome their stadiums he's gone.

He's not Saban, he's running a system unique to the Dome.

Hope this is it. And hope we can get him a new and improved dome too.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not a lot to go on here. What’s the issue?

The issue is that it's dumb.

 

[Pyle]

If they spend to dome their stadiums he's gone.

He's not Saban, he's running a system unique to the Dome.

It seemed to work pretty well in Ohio, outside, on grass. The Dome is an ideal atmosphere but to think he won't leave because his system won't work somewhere else isn't rational, it's worked everywhere he's gone.

 

[Pyle]

The issue is that it's dumb.

Why is it? I think posts that simply state an opinion without any relevant material are dumb too. (See I could stop here, like you, but that's just inflammatory)

Primarily because they are not intended to sway opinion, just generate likes from those who agree with you. (And now I present an actual point which can be debated, not just devolve into a flame war).

 

[Bayside44]

It seemed to work pretty well in Ohio, outside, on grass. The Dome is an ideal atmosphere but to think he won't leave because his system won't work somewhere else isn't rational, it's worked everywhere he's gone.

If we played outside on grass he likely isn't here.

The guy is getting what he needs, people need to attend the Wake and BC games.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Really? Please explain how my post was devoid of significant business reality or sanity.

To give a little background... I just turned 36 years old and have been the Chief Financial Officer of a Nasdaq traded public homebuilder for 2 years now. This homebuilder barely survived the downturn and as of year end 2016 had stifled through 10 straight years of losses (this analogizes very well with the last 15+ years of Syracuse football I noted in my post above). The homebuilder market is still soft outside of a few major metro areas, however, we've now turned our first two profitable quarters. This too analogizes well with what's happening with the football program currently. We're not completely out of the woods, but the light is starting to shine through.

During that 10-yr span, our retail investors became uber cautious and the institutional investors are all but gone (again, analogizes to the show-me fans). Fortunately for the Company, I'm not one to rest on what I deem to be a minor success and just keep plugging along hoping it'll all work out in the end (you paying attention Syracuse Administration?). Instead, I'm chasing a transformative transaction that will not only bring those cautious investor groups back to the table, but rather bring the institutional investors back knocking at OUR doors, instead of vice versa (refer to call for the extension and plans for the Dome to be finalized). This transaction almost assuredly will land me on the Washington D.C.'s 40-under-40 list in the next 2 years.

I'm not patting myself on the back, instead I'm trying to make sure that we're ready to capitalize on the free publicity and spotlight that will bring to the Company. Otherwise, I could care less about putting my face on some yearbook type list. So, as you can see, I not only have quite an accomplished business acumen at quite a young age, but also a vision for greater things and a strategy which I quarterbacked for executing against those plans.

I could very easily just sit back and let my resume carry me the rest of the way (recent history analogizes to the fact that the Administration keeps calling for the fans to come back and for donors to line up and write checks). At this point, I have accomplished more, in such a short period, than even I thought imaginable just 14 years ago when I graduated from Ithaca (hi Dino). My family is pretty much set from this point forward financially (ACC checks will keep coming). Hell no I say. The Company needs to capitalize on the momentum and show it's commitment to generating greater returns for our shareholders. That analogizes to what I said in my previous post. The fans and donors want to believe. Show them they have something to believe in.

Please before throwing statements around on the internet, such as "devoid of significant business reality or sanity," realize that reality is what you make of it.

My only takeaway from this is - you’re a whale - what is your donation level and what are you doing to bring other whales into the fold? Reality is what we make of these expectations... and you can change that reality.

 

[Newhouser]

It seemed to work pretty well in Ohio, outside, on grass. The Dome is an ideal atmosphere but to think he won't leave because his system won't work somewhere else isn't rational, it's worked everywhere he's gone.

I agree. Plenty of teams play as fast or faster that don't play inside. I think like all things this will come down to finances. Everyone can say they love where they are but $ usually wins out.

 

[Pyle]

If we played outside on grass he likely isn't here.

The guy is getting what he needs, people need to attend the Wake and BC games.

While I agree with your premise, it has nothing to do with what I said. Yes it's extremely likely he would not have come to CNY to play in this climate without a roof. That does not mean he won't leave the Dome to play in some place that has an ideal climate, like in the SEC. Are you one of those that thought DM would never leave his dream job? Don't bury your head in the sand, situations change.

 

[Bayside44]

While I agree with your premise, it has nothing to do with what I said. Yes it's extremely likely he would not have come to CNY to play in this climate without a roof. That does not mean he won't leave the Dome to play in some place that has an ideal climate, like in the SEC. Are you one of those that thought DM would never leave his dream job? Don't bury your head in the sand, situations change.

Doug Marrone worked for a couple of idiots. This is a completely different situation.

 

[Pyle]

Doug Marrone worked for a couple of idiots. This is a completely different situation.

Checkmate. I got nothing.

 

[Orangepace]

All well and good but wouldn't make you right in this situation, IMO and I will keep my resume to myself, thank you

Wasn't meant to be a puff piece. That's not my style. He challenged my credibility and I put forth my credentials. I have no issue with people disagreeing with me. Personal attacks are a different story.

My stance on the topic was well laid out I thought. 15 years of ineptitude has cost the University a generation of financial support that can never be recovered. Deferring a raise to the football staff only stands to put the University at more risk for alienation of what's left of the loyal fanbase. I am of the opinion that it seems several people on this board need to rip off the blinders. There are only two potential outcomes:

• Lock them in. Dino and staff will know that the University is standing behind the bill of goods he was sold when he took the job. They will be incentivized to keep executing the plan.
• Defer planting the flag in the ground and wait until the results become more clear. This creates its own set of risks. Next season, there is an easier schedule than they are currently working through. If Dino and staff successful, they will have all the leverage. There will be suitors that have the cash already in place to lure them away.

From the University's perspective, the downside risks of those two scenarios:

• Giving the staff raises would risk approximately $4 - $5 million (assume Dino gets $1.5M raise and staff salaries get $1M in raises, over two years). I used 2 years in the assumption because whether Dino is under a 5, or 6, year contract, after 4 years it will be clear if they will succeed or fail.
• Deferring the raises may save the $4 - $5 million in downside risk, assuming the staff fails. The downside risks of deferral actually would relate to Dino succeeding, rather than failing. If Dino is successful at returning SU to the Top 25 rankings at any point in the next 2 years, the factories will come calling. The factories have enough money that they laugh at the situation we find ourselves in. This is a risk, because at a minimum, it puts the leverage all in Dino's hands which could be even more costly in the long run.

So we're back to square one -- help fill in the gaps for me to understand why you believe deferral is more prudent. Are you more concerned with the potential for wasted money? Don't believe he's earned it?

 

[Orangepace]

Here's what it boils down to IMO. You said substantial progress. I think that's like saying Kate Upton is sort of attractive. It's been more than substantial. Last year he brought in a graduate transfer WR who barely saw the field for his prior team and made him one of the best WRs in the country. At the beginning of the year, we kept hearing posters claiming we are really missing AET. Now Ishmael has made AET a distant memory.
We have set almost every single passing record in the history of the school in the past two years.
We have knocked off a top 25 team each of Baber's years on campus and we had the most significant win in the Dome since 1984 happen this year.
Recruiting looks better that it has in years.

But that's not all, what else do you have for them Bob? How about a team that's been competitive against every single team we've played this year. MTSU was a damn fluke, Shafer got in the heads of everybody and somehow black magic'ed his way to some bizarro win. Looking at the body of work from the rest of this season shows a team on the brink of greatness. I started this season with the attitude that Dino needs to be held accountable now, no more Shafer excuses. Well that works both ways. We are competitive to a degree we haven't seen in a long time on the road. We have one of the nation's most improved defenses(this was huge for me). We are setting school offense records every time we take the field. People are excited about SU football, and I don't just mean the locals.

One more point, Dino has fled both of his last gigs after 2 years. Based on the way we are playing, it's not completely unrealistic to think we could win out. If we do I don't care what Dino's buyout is, some 10 gallon hat, 3lb belt buckle, oil mogul or whatever could probably pay the whole thing in one big donation. Losing Dino at this point in the rebuild would be disastrous.

Great post. Couldn't agree more. I wanted to characterize the bolded part with the emphasis it deserves. Losing Dino would set the program back another generation. How do I know this? I have 5 season tickets -- 3rd deck, 40 yard line, 3rd row, directly off the entrance. I had something come up last minute (5 days before the game) and so I knew I wouldn't be able to make the Clemson game. I literally contacted 25+ different friends in the area and offered them for free. I had to eat those tickets. I've had 5 different people reach out to me to ask if I was planning to use the Wake Forest tickets, offering to pay for the tickets. If that's not evidence of how critical this is, I don't know what is.