Pay that man his money.

[elimunelson]

I have no idea. All I was saying is that most coaches' contracts have incentives built it.

It would be very strange to have a D1 P5 head football coach contract without incentives.

u are making my point about we don't know anything about Dino's contract and what the demands would be. He may have very attractive escalators which take him to a number that is market. Do we know if there are options on this contract that the university controls, Dino controls, etc? Maybe his contract allows him an allowance to spend more on staff if certain markers are met.

To simply demand raises is doing so without any clue of what he has in his pocket right now. Completely fruitless

 

[JHarris44]

Do we actually know for a fact Mike Hart left because of money?

I don’t believe a bottom tier Big Ten team would pay 200k more for a RB coach.

It seems like a telephone game rumor that has become believed. He may have gotten raise but do we know he left and Dino was pissed about it?

State Universities pay WAY more than most private schools. I'm a bit worried that a Tennessee can come in and offer Babers and staff great weather for their offense and triple the salaries and resources. Am hoping Dino isn't a grass is always greener type of guy and keeps himself and assistants in place for less $ and more 's than a UT would.

 

[orangepassion]

Did everyone else already see this? The whole article is a fun read.
"9. What Power Five coaches have helped themselves this year?
Syracuse’s Dino Babers has earned his buzz after a historic victory over then-No. 2 Clemson last week. (The fatalist Syracuse fan base spent more time dreading his departure than enjoying the Clemson victory). Only in Year Two, Babers’ buyout is likely too big for him to get any serious traction during this round of hiring. With a marquee win, distinct identity and some recruiting momentum, a more likely option is Syracuse negotiating a new deal with Babers. (He joked in a phone interview Saturday that he’s putting more than $60,000 into refurbishing his home, a rebuild as a sign he’s continuing his rebuild)."

College football's coaching carousel: Where will Scott Frost be in 2018?

 

[elimunelson]

State Universities pay WAY more than most private schools. I'm a bit worried that a Tennessee can come in and offer Babers and staff great weather for their offense and triple the salaries and resources. Am hoping Dino isn't a grass is always greener type of guy and keeps himself and assistants in place for less $ and more 's than a UT would.

I think Dino would be like 8th on their wish list. I wouldn't be concerned with UT.

 

[BillSU]

I think Dino would be like 8th on their wish list. I wouldn't be concerned with UT.

I do not believe Dino is a " is a grass is greener type of guy ". Here are some incentives you referred to earlier albeit the coach of the national champions:

Dabo Swinney contract at Clemson

Dabo Swinney Photo Credit: Getty Images

College: Clemson

Conference: ACC

State: South Carolina

Base compensation

• 2017 guaranteed pay: $7,500,000
• Total contract pay: $54,000,000
• Contract length: 8 years
• Start date: 1/1/2017
• Expires: 12/31/2024

Incentives

• Retention bonus: $1,500,000 signing bonus in 2017; $1,000,000 on 3/1/19; $700,000 on 3/1/21
• National title bonus: $250,000
• CFP semifinal win: $200,000
• CFP semifinal appearance: $200,000
• Conference title bonus: $50,000 for appearing and $150,000 for winning
• Coach of the year award bonus: $25,000 for conference coach of year; $50,000 for national coach of year
• Academic bonuses: $75,000 to $100,000 of bonus based on team APR
• Car: two new cars replaced every year with insurance or $1,000 monthly stipend per car
• Tickets: 20 football tickets and 22-seat executive seat to all home games; 6 tickets to men’s basketball and baseball games
• Golf/country club: country club membership.

Other Perks

• Miscellaneous perks: university pays for family’s travel to away games; employer funded split dollar life insurance plan with vesting and benefits to be mutually agreed upon; he reported to school he receives security on his home in exchange for his endoresement and in 2017 will receive a $250,000 condo in return for his endorsement
• Buyout if coach leaves for another coaching job: $6,000,000 if before 12/31/18; $4,000,000 if before 12/31/19; $3,000,000 if before 12/31/20; $2,000,000 if before 12/31/21; $1,000,000 if before 12/31/23

 

[OttoMets]

...

If he finishes 5-7 give him a $500,000 raise which would make his salary $3 million.

Give raises to assistant coaches

Market the hell out of the accomplishments of the football program

Get the new Loud House which is a signature sports venue in this country and one which Dino loves, it’s his house and our house, started and finished.

These threads confuse me so much. Kudos to elimunelson for keeping things tethered to reality.

I'm a huge Dino fan. Great professional personality. Huge improvement in style of play. Intriguing early recruiting success. Without fail, competitive on the field.

But he signed a 6-year deal presumably to make SU a winning program, yeah? I don't know what the school's benchmark is, but I'm sure they were thinking of some numbers when they put together a contract.

So to hear such popular support for "Hey, you've won 8 games and lost 12 - better tear up that contract and give you more money!" is a head-scratcher. Because they gave him 6 years at $X million per to be better than .500. And he's not even there yet.

I think the instant-gratification culture's gotten carried away with this one. Didn't mean to address this to you directly, Bill, just liked the way your "5-7, $500,000 raise" mirrored my thinking.

 

[TheCusian]

I think fans see these hires and contracts different than how they are *actually* evaluated. While W/L record is the indicator most everyone agrees is the most important, Athletic Directors hire and fire base on trajectory. That's why good coaches who plateau get fired after 8 and 9 win seasons and why other coaches get fired after 3 seasons with mixed results. The evaluation isn't "is he .500"...

If your Wildhack and you believe in Dino's trajectory - you give him a new deal - even if the W/L record says otherwise.

 

[Chip]

How important is a Dome renovation in regards to recruiting? Obviously as fans we want a more modern, spacious, comfortable place to watch games. But it’s not clear to me what a renovation tangibly does for recruiting, other than just signaling investment in the program.

I ask because people seem convinced that a renovation is a critical element to retaining Babers and I’m wondering why? If we did nothing on that front (not saying we should, just posing a hypothetical) but threw lots of money at Dino and his staff, what would yield a bigger return?

Hell, it sounds like if we did nothing but put 44K+ in the Dome again regularly that might yield a bigger return.

I used to be all on board with this theory. Most of the college stadiums are dumps by today's standards. They were built so long ago. But they have a charm to the fanbase and that tradition is more important than all else.

The only differences I see now are:

1. Our problem is that there have been so many conversations about renovation, or even a new stadium, that the snowball has started down the hill. I think now it has to get to the bottom as it just makes the current Dome situation look worse (including for recruits). Not to mention the roof thing.
2. Dino in particular is coming from a place where a new stadium helped raise the entire profile of the program, before a s e xual assault scandal tore it down.
3. Other schools are starting to modernize their caverns, so it's just going to be the next big thing, if it's not already.

I think we need to get this one resolved, and I really hope that happens soon.

 

[Chip]

If it were me, I'd probably avoid the SEC. Making $2.5M in Syracuse and being thought of as a king isn't a bad thing.

 

[Scooch]

I think fans see these hires and contracts different than how they are *actually* evaluated. While W/L record is the indicator most everyone agrees is the most important, Athletic Directors hire and fire base on trajectory. That's why good coaches who plateau get fired after 8 and 9 win seasons and why other coaches get fired after 3 seasons with mixed results. The evaluation isn't "is he .500"...

If your Wildhack and you believe in Dino's trajectory - you give him a new deal - even if the W/L record says otherwise.

Your last line is the contentious point, though. I don't understand "you give him a new deal" absolutism. We have no insight into the conversations our AD and head coach have been having. We don't even know the terms of Dino's contract.

I think we all agree that Babers is making substantial progress and that, barring some kind of scandal or catastrophic set of circumstances, we'd like to see him coach SU for the foreseeable future.

Where there is disagreement is regarding the urgent -- hell, almost FRANTIC -- pleading for SU to extend him now.

NOW.

Like Veruca Salt throwing a tantrum.

And I've seen this dynamic play out here 100 times. The demanding begins and then it snowballs into "SU never does anything!!1!1!! Why aren't they *doing* things?!?!" within weeks, if not days.

Personally, all I'm suggesting in this thread (and others like it) is that no one knows the basics of Babers' contract, no one seems to know exactly how-or-if the staff is compensated relative to our peers, and no one knows what talks have transpired within the administration. People should discuss, it's fun, that's why we're here. But the frantic-ness is odd to me.

 

[Scooch]

I used to be all on board with this theory. Most of the college stadiums are dumps by today's standards. They were built so long ago. But they have a charm to the fanbase and that tradition is more important than all else.

The only differences I see now are:

1. Our problem is that there have been so many conversations about renovation, or even a new stadium, that the snowball has started down the hill. I think now it has to get to the bottom as it just makes the current Dome situation look worse (including for recruits). Not to mention the roof thing.
2. Dino in particular is coming from a place where a new stadium helped raise the entire profile of the program, before a s e xual assault scandal tore it down.
3. Other schools are starting to modernize their caverns, so it's just going to be the next big thing, if it's not already.

I think we need to get this one resolved, and I really hope that happens soon.

All makes sense to me.

 

[BillSU]

How important is a Dome renovation in regards to recruiting? Obviously as fans we want a more modern, spacious, comfortable place to watch games. But it’s not clear to me what a renovation tangibly does for recruiting, other than just signaling investment in the program.

I ask because people seem convinced that a renovation is a critical element to retaining Babers and I’m wondering why? If we did nothing on that front (not saying we should, just posing a hypothetical) but threw lots of money at Dino and his staff, what would yield a bigger return?

Hell, it sounds like if we did nothing but put 44K+ in the Dome again regularly that might yield a bigger return.

It does nothing for recruiting - the recruits are already very impressed in the Domes ambiance when they view it for the first time. That's why I listed it last above. You have to take care of your HC and his staff.

I go to a high school football stadium in Ohio that has backs on all seats. I don't know what the administrations problem is in getting the work started. Surely they could put backs on the seats if that would make the fans more comfortable. I imagine it's the roof as Wildhack has mentioned in his comments that makes the Dome renovation a very difficult puzzle to solve or it may be that the money isn't there to do anything. In which case, how do you retain staff or a head coach with money commensurate with their peers if the cupboard is bare?

I imagine if it came down to Babers and staff jumping ship they'd find the contract with more money and extension with cars, and all the perks that go with it not the Dome renovation. But they better do something positive.

 

[OttoMets]

I think fans see these hires and contracts different than how they are *actually* evaluated. While W/L record is the indicator most everyone agrees is the most important, Athletic Directors hire and fire base on trajectory. That's why good coaches who plateau get fired after 8 and 9 win seasons and why other coaches get fired after 3 seasons with mixed results. The evaluation isn't "is he .500"...

If your Wildhack and you believe in Dino's trajectory - you give him a new deal - even if the W/L record says otherwise.

This is the trajectory they expected. They didn't sign a new coach to a long deal thinking he'd be coaching and recruiting like Shafer 20 games in. Improvement was what the school sought to buy with the contract.

 

[Alsacs]

This is the trajectory they expected. They didn't sign a new coach to a long deal thinking he'd be coaching and recruiting like Shafer 20 games in. Improvement was what the school sought to buy with the contract.

If you think we are coaching and recruiting like Shafer then you think a lot more of Shafer than he actually was.

Dino has elevated the program. If you want to see more okay but if you think we are still like we were from 2013-2015 you lose credibility.

 

[UnknownOrange]

If you think we are coaching and recruiting like Shafer then you think a lot more of Shafer than he actually was.

Dino has elevated the program. If you want to see more okay but if you think we are still like we were from 2013-2015 you lose credibility.

Re read it. Not what he meant lol

 

[OttoMets]

If you think we are coaching and recruiting like Shafer then you think a lot more of Shafer than he is.

Dino has elevated the program. If you want to see more okay but if you think we are still like we were from 2013-2015 you lose credibility.

I don't know how someone could interpret those two sentences that way.

The other guy said the "trajectory" might merit a new contract. I said that it's plain that SU expected this kind of trajectory. They didn't hire a new coach with the expectation that his trajectory would be unchanged from Shafer.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I have no idea. All I was saying is that most coaches' contracts have incentives built it.

It would be very strange to have a D1 P5 head football coach contract without incentives.

I think it is pretty standard that all coaches receive a bonus if the team reaches a certain APR. I remember reading that Petrino received 500,000 three years in a row for reaching a particular APR.

Bobby Petrino secures $500,000 bonus because Louisville hits APR standard

 

[BillSU]

These threads confuse me so much. Kudos to elimunelson for keeping things tethered to reality.

I'm a huge Dino fan. Great professional personality. Huge improvement in style of play. Intriguing early recruiting success. Without fail, competitive on the field.

But he signed a 6-year deal presumably to make SU a winning program, yeah? I don't know what the school's benchmark is, but I'm sure they were thinking of some numbers when they put together a contract.

So to hear such popular support for "Hey, you've won 8 games and lost 12 - better tear up that contract and give you more money!" is a head-scratcher. Because they gave him 6 years at $X million per to be better than .500. And he's not even there yet.

I think the instant-gratification culture's gotten carried away with this one. Didn't mean to address this to you directly, Bill, just liked the way your "5-7, $500,000 raise" mirrored my thinking.

Exactly! I don't think Dino,who I am a huge fan of also, should get any increase and I don't think Dino would care. He's happy here with what he has. Two signature wins in two years and many are saying OK he's changed the program better make sure we get out the check book because he may be ready to move to the pasture that is greener which I don't think is Dino at all. I simply was joining in the "well they must be right category" when I don't believe at all which is why I said I think Wildhack should wait until the season plays out because we could be looking at a season that winds up 4-8. So I in my heart feel that why should that be rewarded. People here are so anxious for a savior that they can't believe someone would stay to further develop what's already been started. I let myself be swayed and now I am swallowing my words.

 

[Newhouser]

We are like a kid who has been in a dating slump. Finally finding a cool girl to date who is the best thing to happen to you in years when you realize A) she may be out of your league, and is garnering attention from other suitors, B) she has some quirks ( some odd game management decisions, road woes, MTSU loss) that leave a hint of doubt on some level, C) you have your pride and don't want to act too desperate or anxious, and D) you really don't want to go back to square 1 and start all over... D appears to be our overriding fear right now, and Dino may be the beneficiary. Personally I would wait.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't know how someone could interpret those two sentences that way.

The other guy said the "trajectory" might merit a new contract. I said that it's plain that SU expected this kind of trajectory. They didn't hire a new coach with the expectation that his trajectory would be unchanged from Shafer.

They paid market rate. They didn’t overpay Dino.
Addazio at BC makes 2.4 million a year.

The last coach was underpaid because the school went cheap and we got the results we got.
Dino’s contract has never been made public because we as a private school don’t have to report it.
Rumor is Dino makes between 2 and 2.5 million.

The new contract for Dino should be 3.5 to 4 million per year. That would put Dino in the top 25.
As I am sure the apparel company we sign with would pay a portion of it.
Give his assistants bumps as welland call it a day.

That is it.

 

[Alsacs]

Either you think Dino is the guy or you don’t.
If people can’t see Dino has gone 2 years at his last 2 coaching stops and can’t see why people want to lock him down cause they believe in him then okay.

Syracuse football hasn’t mattered in a long time. 2012 is our best year since 2001 that year we were 8-5.
Sorry if I see the guy who I believe in and want to make sure he remains.

But yeah whatever.

 

[OttoMets]

They paid market rate. They didn’t overpay Dino.
Addazio at BC makes 2.4 million a year.

The last coach was underpaid because the school went cheap and we got the results we got.
Dino’s contract has never been made public because we as a private school don’t have to report it.
Rumor is Dino makes between 2 and 2.5 million.

The new contract for Dino should be 3.5 to 4 million per year. That would put Dino in the top 25.
As I am sure the apparel company we sign with would pay a portion of it.
Give his assistants bumps as welland call it a day.

That is it.

Either you think Dino is the guy or you don’t.
If people can’t see Dino has gone 2 years at his last 2 coaching stops and can’t see why people want to lock him down cause they believe in him then okay.

Syracuse football hasn’t mattered in a long time. 2012 is our best year since 2001 that year we were 8-5.
Sorry if I see the guy who I believe in and want to make sure he remains.

But yeah whatever.

Don Quixote, none of this is remotely germane to the post to which you responded.

 

[Alsacs]

Don Quixote, none of this is remotely germane to the post to which you responded.

Then ignore it.

 

[Scooch]

Don Quixote, none of this is remotely germane to the post to which you responded.

Come on, tell us why you hate Dino, want him fired, and want SU football to suck. WHY?!?!?!

 

[Alsacs]

Come on, tell us why you hate Dino, want him fired, and want SU football to suck. WHY?!?!?!

And you can come on, and tell us what a board of freaking Syracuse football fans can and can’t talk about.
I am looking forward it too so I know what I can and can’t talk about.
Thanks.