people act like Frost was a home run

[upperdeck]

we already know his offense struggled without a big time QB and he had elite skill talent.. he wasnt getting that here next year. I want more offense too, but i want a good coach more.

 

[TheCusian]

we already know his offense struggled without a big time QB and he had elite skill talent.. he wasnt getting that here next year. I want more offense too, but i want a good coach more.

Oregon struggle > our offense the last 3 years

 

[HOFCeluck]

We play in a dome, we've done the meat head thing for 15 years.

 

[Tobias Funke]

the upside was his offensive ability
the downside was a perceived lack of long term commitment

One of those things is likely to be a common thread with the top of your wish list when you are Syracuse in the 2010's

 

[CanadianSU]

He wasn't the best hire (Frost), but I'll take him now...

 

[orangeinjersey]

we already know his offense struggled without a big time QB and he had elite skill talent.. he wasnt getting that here next year. I want more offense too, but i want a good coach more.

you're assuming you know he would be a bad coach. You dont know that.
You're also assuming Ash is going to be a good coach. You don't know that either.
But for the sake of argument, lets assume they are both BAD coaches. At least frost brought an offensive system that this team/program so desperately wants/needs.

 

[xc84]

you're assuming you know he would be a bad coach. You dont know that.
You're also assuming Ash is going to be a good coach. You don't know that either.
But for the sake of argument, lets assume they are both BAD coaches. At least frost brought an offensive system that this team/program so desperately wants/needs.

Hmmm...which offensive system will Ash bring in?

 

[upperdeck]

We play in a dome, we've done the meat head thing for 15 years.

so the Marrone passing attack never happened? i guess every spread team runs it to success too? tell purdue/auburn/florida/NW/kansas how well it worked for them this year on offense

 

[Millhouse]

we already know his offense struggled without a big time QB and he had elite skill talent.. he wasnt getting that here next year. I want more offense too, but i want a good coach more.

our offense was exciting and oregon's struggled. ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook

 

[Blood Orange]

Seeing some UCF commenters saying they would have rather had Babers than Frost. Sounds like Frost's contract demands (rumors) were very off putting for SU. So I don't blame them for passing if that was the case.

 

[billsin01]

we already know his offense struggled without a big time QB and he had elite skill talent.. he wasnt getting that here next year. I want more offense too, but i want a good coach more.

I think the saddest part of the whole process was the fact that Frost was being treated like Saban on these boards. I don't really care that we 'lost' him in any way, really. But just disappointed in general that the university still doesn't want to act like a big boy.

 

[KaiserUEO]

at least frost and oregon have an offense.

we are not going to for the forseeable future.

 

[Tobias Funke]

at least frost and oregon have an offense.

we are not going to for the forseeable future.

Listen I know there is precedence but the idea that this guy cannot bring offense with him as a bit of a leap. Hopefully if he is smart he understands that he needs to invest more in an OC than a DC based on his own background. Where Shafer erred in my opinion is going cheap on the OC side.

 

[HOFCeluck]

so the Marrone passing attack never happened? i guess every spread team runs it to success too? tell purdue/auburn/florida/NW/kansas how well it worked for them this year on offense

Marrone 2012 offense? So one year in 15?

No one was claiming frost was a sure thing...

 

[billsin01]

Sounds like Frost's contract demands (rumors) were very off putting for SU. So I don't blame them for passing if that was the case.

Yeah that seems reasonable. Why pay someone who has plenty of opportunities elsewhere? And why settle for someone who may be really good for a short period of time when you can completely gamble on someone else who may or may not be good or terrible for a longer period of time?

Bottom line -- if the guy was the guy you like best, pay him money and step up to the plate. No other words really need to be written on the Frost part of this story. I don't really care if his demands included a rendezvous with at least one member of the dance team each week during the season. Find some way to make it happen if you really think he's going to win games.

 

[Tobias Funke]

Yeah that seems reasonable. Why pay someone who has plenty of opportunities elsewhere? And why settle for someone who may be really good for a short period of time when you can completely gamble on someone else who may or may not be good or terrible for a longer period of time?

Bottom line -- if the guy was the guy you like best, pay him money and step up to the plate. No other words really need to be written on the Frost part of this story. I don't really care if his demands included a rendezvous with at least one member of the dance team each week during the season. Find some way to make it happen if you really think he's going to win games.

I dont think it was the money, but the term. I dont think they believed he would win immediately, at least enough to make it worthwhile to rent him for 2-3 years. Sounds like it was apparent that he would bolt early when given the opportunity. Now this is to be expected, but from a negotiation standpoint it sounded like he wanted to have too easy of an exit strategy

 

[upperdeck]

you're assuming you know he would be a bad coach. You dont know that.
You're also assuming Ash is going to be a good coach. You don't know that either.
But for the sake of argument, lets assume they are both BAD coaches. At least frost brought an offensive system that this team/program so desperately wants/needs.

i wouldnt even assume that much..
I know I follow Neb guys more than almost anyone on this board

I dont know who is the better coach, but i think the OSU D coming here has a better chance with our talent to succeed than than the Ore Offense until recruiting kicks in since we saw it work with SS on D already.

there are just as many bad spread offenses as not, regardless of the facts Millhouse wants to spout

I do think the spread lends itself to big plays, big plays get yds, but after you go down 20 teams or so its pretty equal the success. the best spread teams run it well and we dont have the guys to do that yet.

if you think we will be an elite top 20 offense next year with a new coach then fine, if we could get back to top 50 in D we would have been fine this year.

 

[billsin01]

I dont think it was the money, but the term. I dont think they believed he would win immediately, at least enough to make it worthwhile to rent him for 2-3 years. Sounds like it was apparent that he would bolt early when given the opportunity. Now this is to be expected, but from a negotiation standpoint it sounded like he wanted to have too easy of an exit strategy

Fine. But did Coyle believe he was the guy to turn around the program? If the answer is yes, then pay him money, deal with a shorter term and be happy that you got your guy and you may be better in 2017. Remember, Frost has to win enough to leave. He may not have to get to 10-3 but he probably has to get to at least back-to-back 7-win seasons to get an offer from a big boy. That seems like a huge win at this point.

 

[upperdeck]

Marrone 2012 offense? So one year in 15?

No one was claiming frost was a sure thing...

then why complain about the next option so much wait until we get an OC before bashing a hire. maybe frost brings back GROB to run the D would that have helped anything?

 

[RF2044]

That's true, UD, but I think the posters clamoring for an offensive head coach are in the main right. That side of the ball has been broken post-McNabb with the exception of a few lone seasons here and there. Fans are tired of watching boring football. Fans are also tired of missing the boat by concentrating on the defensive side of the ball while the rest of college football moves further and further away from what is represntative of traditional northeastern football.

 

[KaiserUEO]

then why complain about the next option so much wait until we get an OC before bashing a hire. maybe frost brings back GROB to run the D would that have helped anything?

because every D guy punts on the 40 out of fear of putting their precious D in a bad spot.

 

[Blood Orange]

Yeah that seems reasonable. Why pay someone who has plenty of opportunities elsewhere? And why settle for someone who may be really good for a short period of time when you can completely gamble on someone else who may or may not be good or terrible for a longer period of time?

Bottom line -- if the guy was the guy you like best, pay him money and step up to the plate. No other words really need to be written on the Frost part of this story. I don't really care if his demands included a rendezvous with at least one member of the dance team each week during the season. Find some way to make it happen if you really think he's going to win games.

But you hire a coach on a 2 year deal and what does that tell recruits? Either you have no faith in the guy beyond 2 years or will be gone in two years for another job and we conceded to that. That makes zero sense.

 

[Briancuse]

No one out there is really a home run hire, but to lose a candidate to Usf, that hurts.

 

[Chip]

we already know his offense struggled without a big time QB and he had elite skill talent.. he wasnt getting that here next year. I want more offense too, but i want a good coach more.

From what I'm reading, people aren't so much upset that we lost out on Frost. It's that we lost out on Frost and rumors/signs point to us moving onto a defensive coordinator. As if all our eggs were only in one offensive bucket.

Put me on the list of wanting an offensive minded coach with a good plan (and the school gives him $) for a solid DC hire, than a defensive minded coach with a good plan (and the school gives him $) for a solid OC.

Both methods have won at various schools, so there's no right answer. But SU tries the DC route much more than the OC route. The only time we tried the OC route recently, it was a clear turnaround. Plus that whole Dome thing.

What I don't get is that if we're going the DC route, there are two guys out there who fit that model and have been successful HCs in the northeast. Golden and Rhule. Maybe we interviewed them, maybe they're not interested. I have no idea. But I'd like to think we tried, because it's a lot riskier to think otherwise.

 

[upperdeck]

because every D guy punts on the 40 out of fear of putting their precious D in a bad spot.

tell Belichick that, all about the D wont even draft offense. Parcells went for it on 4th alot too. SS was a QB who coached D and still was not aggressive. thats his downfall.