People are selling Cooney low

[HoustonCuse]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56997/trevor-cooney

Those are his season stats. There is nothing there that would make you take him over TJ Warren, Rodney Hood, whoever the 2 is at UConn, or dozens of other guys. He's our guy and everyone wants him to put the ball in the basket but there's no reason for false praise.

Wait, are you saying that we should expect Cooney to be better than TJ Warren right now? Thats the ACC POY. I guess this calibrates what you guys are expecting from him?? I firmly believe that Cooney has all the tools to be a stud player for us. I think he started out that way this year and I attribute his decline to the season wearing him down. I think it is reasonable for him to be better next year with this year's experience and whatever improvement he undertakes during the off season. But if your minimum bar for Cooney this year was to equal or best the ACC POY, I can't really help that.

We would have probably 12 or 13 losses this year if Cooney wasn't so good in the beginning. It shows that he was the difference between being #1 in the nation and being a very mediocre team. When he wore out and started failing at the end, we became that mediocre team very quickly. I choose to see the benefits Cooney brought when he was playing to his potential, not to use the other half of the season as evidence that he is worthless. It's not fair and it doesn't make sense.

 

[newmexicuse]

I don't want to sound anti-Trevor, but the bottom line is that he has been a fairly big disappointment two years in a row. He should be a 6th man spark off the bench. Put him in the proper role & I believe that he will shine.

 

[orangefan13]

Hes not ready to hit a 3 under pressure yet, or pull up off the dribble yet. In todays game that isn't what you want from a 4th scoring option let alone a 3rd. Thats not even 6th man materia.. He had more potential scoring in the lane then he did spotting up for 3 late in the year. At the end of the year he was what a top 10 team wants as their 4th guard option.
We had 0 shots let alone buckets off motion offense against dayton, 0. And cooney needs more space then fair or grant to score off of motion, that says alot.

He has a long way to go before his stock is high. Thats not a knock, thats the reality of it.
I wouldn't say hes a dissapointment or anything, the kid is the hardest worker on the floor. He just needs to get out of his comfort zone and he knows it after how the season ended.

 

[djcon57]

In fact, people are selling Cooney at a bottom. This is the time you want to be loading up the truck on Cooney stock. All you guys saying he is only a practice player and things like that have short memories. He was arguably the #1 SG in America for the first half of the season. He wore down mentally and physically and it cost him his consistency at the end of the season. That won't happen next year or the year after
I'm 100% in the Cooney camp and have total confidence that he will be a stud player for Syracuse for two more years.

Stuff like this is so cringeworthy. Did you watch other games?
Go look at game logs for Sean Kilpatrick, Russ Smith. Seriously.

Trevor was shooting lights out, no doubt. He wasn't the #1 SG in America at any point.

 

[rrlbees]

[quote="TrickySU, post: 1004188, member: 2749"
It's tough to get assists when others can't hit shots either. That said, getting more assists is something else he can, and needs to, work on.

I have never seen a starting guard have fewer assists than Cooney did this year. So many times when the ball was passed to Trevor he either immediately passed it back or took one quick dribble and passed it. He was never looking to create anything in those situations and it wouldn't have resulted in any more assists if SU was a good shooting team.

If Andy Rautins or Brandon Triche were playing the position with this team, they would have dribbled around and found seams in the defense that led to baskets. Both of them would have dished out a lot more assists to Grant and Fair because passing was big part of their game.[/quote]

The team was not good at assists. We were 11th in the ACC. Partly due to nobody being able to shoot and also the offense which was iso centric.

 

[Henny & Coke]

I have never seen a starting guard have fewer assists than Cooney did this year. So many times when the ball was passed to Trevor he either immediately passed it back or took one quick dribble and passed it. He was never looking to create anything in those situations and it wouldn't have resulted in any more assists if SU was a good shooting team.

If Andy Rautins or Brandon Triche were playing the position with this team, they would have dribbled around and found seams in the defense that led to baskets. Both of them would have dished out a lot more assists to Grant and Fair because passing was big part of their game.

The team was not good at assists. We were 11th in the ACC. Partly due to nobody being able to shoot and also the offense which was iso centric.[/quote]


Makes you really appreciate Michael Carter-Williams's assist numbers (and overall importance to the offense) last year, huh?

Basically the same team as last year, just sub Triche & Southerland for Cooney & Grant, about the same PPG (slightly lower PPG from Cooney & Grant) while the team as a whole shot about the same percentage on the season (last year 439% FG, this year 437% FG), yet:

Michael Carter-Williams still was able to rack up the second most assists ever in a season at SU with 291 in 40 games (7.3 per game) - or more than half of the team's total 562 assists!

Next on team was Triche, with 144 assists in 40 games (3.6 per game).

Just for comparison: Ennis lead team with 187 assists in 34 games (5.5 per game) this year, still very good, with little under half of team's total 402 assists. Followed by Grant with 44, Fair with 43, G with 41, and Cooney with 38. Yikes.

People can make all the "jump-pass turnover" jokes they want about MCW last year, but I cringe to think about how the offense may have looked without him out there trying to make plays & set guys up for open shots.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Stuff like this is so cringeworthy. Did you watch other games?
Go look at game logs for Sean Kilpatrick, Russ Smith. Seriously.

Trevor was shooting lights out, no doubt. He wasn't the #1 SG in America at any point.

Who was better in Nov and Dec? He played great D, was shooting close to 50% from 3, 85%+ from the line. Him playing at that level allowed us to reach #1, his lackluster play later led to us being unable to beat basically any team in the top 175 or so of D1.

 

[Cowtown]

A stud shooting guard has to be able to create his own shot. The next jab step - step back - and shoot sequence i see from him will be his first.

Agreed. It was frustrating watching him work his ass off to get open, only to make his too-predictable half-fake and kick it right back to Ennis. I like the kid and I'm not down on him, but he has to take a little more ownership of the offense. I strongly suspect he will next year, for now he knows what's coming. And nobody wants to play well next year more than he does.

 

[domestu]

I have never seen a starting guard have fewer assists than Cooney did this year. So many times when the ball was passed to Trevor he either immediately passed it back or took one quick dribble and passed it. He was never looking to create anything in those situations and it wouldn't have resulted in any more assists if SU was a good shooting team.

If Andy Rautins or Brandon Triche were playing the position with this team, they would have dribbled around and found seams in the defense that led to baskets. Both of them would have dished out a lot more assists to Grant and Fair because passing was big part of their game.

The team was not good at assists. We were 11th in the ACC. Partly due to nobody being able to shoot and also the offense which was iso centric.[/quote]

I agree but that doesn't explain Cooney's miniscule assist numbers. Have we ever had a starting guard play so many minutes who created fewer scoring opportunities for his teammates? Our forwards were not ball handling or passing wizards but they dished out more assists than Trevor. Gbinije played eighteen fewer minutes a game but he was able to find his teammates with a pass for a basket more often.

Triche had 144 assists last season which is quite a contrast to the 38 his replacement got this season. Trevor played a very one dimensional role in our half court sets and there is not doubt in my mind that Brandon would have had many more assists with this group of players.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Doesn't change losing to a mid major and being shut out in the 2nd round of the tournament. That's just where we are.

Maybe not...but to put the blame on one kid is just plain wrong. They all played poorly...every single one of them would admit it too...

 

[orangefan13]

Maybe not...but to put the blame on one kid is just plain wrong. They all played poorly...every single one of them would admit it too...

They can admit to playing poorly, but we just weren't that good of a team as the season went on. opponents cut down on our motion sets, and we had nobody who could pullup under pressure. Ennis was on his way to becoming our best player, our whole offense and only isolation scorer when fair had offnights(which was nearly every other game.)

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

They can admit to playing poorly, but we just weren't that good of a team as the season went on. opponents cut down on our motion sets, and we had nobody who could pullup under pressure. Ennis was on his way to becoming our best player, our whole offense and only isolation scorer when fair had offnights(which was nearly every other game.)

Look, don't get me wrong, there is a lot of room for improvement and we very well may of over achieved this year. I just think it's a bit naive to blame all our troubles on Trevor Cooney...people who do that are taking the easy way out...

 

[pulaski74]

I don't want to sound anti-Trevor, but the bottom line is that he has been a fairly big disappointment two years in a row. He should be a 6th man spark off the bench. Put him in the proper role & I believe that he will shine.

well,I for one am a believer in the six'th man. They are just as valueable as a starter, what's wrong w/ being the six'th man? No opinion on tc whatsoever

 

[jvbj01]

I'm a Cooney believer and am ashamed of many of the Cooney threads on this board.

The Trevor Cooney threads are all played out. It is shameful that we can bash a kid this much and expect players, families or new recruits to not see this crap. We call ourselves the best college basketball fans out there. Lol...

 

[Bayside44]

Wait, are you saying that we should expect Cooney to be better than TJ Warren right now? Thats the ACC POY. I guess this calibrates what you guys are expecting from him?? I firmly believe that Cooney has all the tools to be a stud player for us. I think he started out that way this year and I attribute his decline to the season wearing him down. I think it is reasonable for him to be better next year with this year's experience and whatever improvement he undertakes during the off season. But if your minimum bar for Cooney this year was to equal or best the ACC POY, I can't really help that.

We would have probably 12 or 13 losses this year if Cooney wasn't so good in the beginning. It shows that he was the difference between being #1 in the nation and being a very mediocre team. When he wore out and started failing at the end, we became that mediocre team very quickly. I choose to see the benefits Cooney brought when he was playing to his potential, not to use the other half of the season as evidence that he is worthless. It's not fair and it doesn't make sense.

No...I am saying that best 2G comment was way out there.

 

[Bayside44]

I'm a Cooney believer and am ashamed of many of the Cooney threads on this board.

The Trevor Cooney threads are all played out. It is shameful that we can bash a kid this much and expect players, families or new recruits to not see this crap. We call ourselves the best college basketball fans out there. Lol...

All people are basically asking is for a guard who has been in the program for three years to hit a couple of jumpshots, against an A10 team. That's it. If that's bashing we should root for grade school teams.

 

[OttoMets]

I have never seen a starting guard have fewer assists than Cooney did this year. ...

I wanted to do some quick research on this claim and maybe disprove it if I could.

Instead I learned that Craig Forth had more assists during his freshman year than Cooney had this season.

 

[OttoMets]

Agreed that he needs to drive more. I think it's fair to say he showed flashes where he got into the lane at times or drove and hit a pull up jumper. He showed he can do it, now he needs to do it more consistently.

It's tough to get assists when others can't hit shots either. That said, getting more assists is something else he can, and needs to, work on.

I'm not saying Cooney's the best player out there, but I'm going to defend him when people start saying he's a bench player. The fact that we're having this conversation is a testament to the work Cooney put in last offseason to have the season he did. Now he can use this offseason to work on those other assets of his game and be more consistent. Let's just not bash him, and let's just see what he does. Again, there won't be one player that will work harder than Trevor.

Note on defense: Gbinije has more length at 6'8", but Cooney has a higher basketball IQ and more active hands, which put himself in a position for more steals out of traps as well as tipped passes.

I'm still high on Cooney and can see him finishing as a top-20 scorer and top-five shooter at SU. But it's difficult to dispute that Gbinije isn't the better defender.

 

[SmilinBob]

Cooney is a good player but for the life of me I don't understand his move when he puts the ball low like he's going to drive and all it seems to achieve is give the player time to cover him. It has no next move purpose.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The team was not good at assists. We were 11th in the ACC. Partly due to nobody being able to shoot and also the offense which was iso centric.

Maybe the team would have been better at assists and not rated so lowly in the conference if Cooney was better at assisting on baskets.

 

[Statesman1]

With all the TC bashing going on, I'm wondering who The Perfessor should put in Cooney's place? silent G? Seriously? Our half court was bad enough already. All the clowns comparing Cooney as a first year starter to Rautins and Trichr should go back and look at their numbers as sophomores and get a grip. Cooney will be fine- we'd all like him to shoot more consistently but even GMac was streaky as hell. Cooney will benefit from another shooter on the floor (obviously) but until that day comes he's the best we've got and it isn't even close for second place. Get off the kid it's unbecoming as a fan.

 

[djcon57]

Who was better in Nov and Dec? He played great D, was shooting close to 50% from 3, 85%+ from the line. Him playing at that level allowed us to reach #1, his lackluster play later led to us being unable to beat basically any team in the top 175 or so of D1.

Sean Kilpatrick, Russ Smith, among others...did you look at the game logs or just decided to answer with your emotions.

Also, again keep the strawmen in check, I never said lackluster play. In fact, I said the opposite. But stuff like "Cooney was the #1 SG in America for half of the season" is why we can't have honest debate in here about him.

 

[jvbj01]

All people are basically asking is for a guard who has been in the program for three years to hit a couple of jumpshots, against an A10 team. That's it. If that's bashing we should root for grade school teams.

I am not talking about those posts. I am talking about many others that have Been insulting towards him. If you haven't seen them bayside, I don't think you have been paying attention.

 

[Cowtown]

I have never seen a starting guard have fewer assists than Cooney did this year. So many times when the ball was passed to Trevor he either immediately passed it back or took one quick dribble and passed it. He was never looking to create anything in those situations and it wouldn't have resulted in any more assists if SU was a good shooting team.

If Andy Rautins or Brandon Triche were playing the position with this team, they would have dribbled around and found seams in the defense that led to baskets. Both of them would have dished out a lot more assists to Grant and Fair because passing was big part of their game.

Yes. having a few players who can put the freaking thing in the basket would certainly help the assist factor, LOL! Regarding Triche, I don't think it's really a fair comparison (no crap to you, stu). He was a 4th year player who had seen considerable floor time prior to his senior year (never less than 20 mpg in any year), and he knew how and when to create offense. And given his size and strength, he could penetrate to either score or dish. Moreover he had a gifted MCW to play with alongside last year. For Cooney however, this year was effectively his baptism. I wonder if he knows yet that he's almost as big as Triche. I suspect he'll come to that realization during this interval when he looks for things he can do better. Add to that he'll have Ennis to play next to, with the benefit of a year's play each between them, which will improve things. For as nice a player as TE is, he was still a freshman finding his way, and his sometimes tentative play exposed that. Having that combination to drive the offense next year should be a huge uptick. Just IMHO.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I am not talking about those posts. I am talking about many others that have Ben insulting towards him. If you haven't seen them bayside, I don't think you have been paying attention.

Don't confuse criticism for personally insulting. Saying that my casting form isn't as good as it needs to be isn't an insult. Saying that I'm jerk is.