Per twitter no student section for this game

[OttoMets]

Maybe he should ask his African American student athletes why at least one of them supports the protests.

He should ask all of them. I'd love to hear Ajak's take.

"After years of running from war, I'm at this beautiful four-year university and my classmates are camping out on the gym floor because somebody drew a joke about Asian kids' pr--ks on the bathroom wall? Weird culture."

 

[NKR1978]

He should ask all of them. I'd love to hear Ajak's take.

"After years of running from war, I'm at this beautiful four-year university and my classmates are camping out on the gym floor because somebody drew a joke about Asian kids' pr--ks on the bathroom wall? Weird culture."

Or maybe he's in class as a refugee who escaped a horrible situation hearing white frat boys talk about how refugees are destroying the country and how it's awesome that we took in 0 as a nation over the past year. And he's seeing all these kids who grew up without want or fear gloating about shutting people like him out of their country. Weird culture.

And I'd be happy if JB asked all his athletes how they feel, but JBA isn't African American, he's plain old African. His experience likely does not mirror that of Elijah Hughes.

 

[cuse10]

So, a few observations from my end, as a graduate student at SU whose main area of focus is race, and racism on college campuses.

First, this is not an isolated incident just at SU. All PWIs (Predominantly White Institutions) struggle with issues of race and racism. That is in part because we live in a racist society, but it's also because students often don't have much of a semblance of cultural/racial literacy and competency before they come to college. A prime example of this is when I hear white students use the phrase "colored people" EVERY semester I teach a class at SU. This has happened EVERY. SINGLE. SEMESTER for over five years straight. I've also heard it at other schools too. Whether or not the intent is to harm when that phrase is uttered by an unaware student, the larger lack of awareness remains.

Secondly, SU is absolutely a hostile place for students of color. Point blank. Full stop. How many examples do you need? The "blackface halloween" incident in the early 00's. How about "Over the Hill" student TV programming a few years later? Or the Theta Tau incident last year? Or the Ackerman assault last spring, which the administration tried to downplay and said wasn't racially motivated. Or, if you'd like something more common and everyplace, how about the numerous times I've heard white students in the SU basketball section next to me, while we're watching games at the Dome refer to our black basketball players as "monkeys" and "n****rs". Students of color are routinely harassed at SU, their experiences often invalidated by faculty. I know this because I've worked with many students of color on campus at SU through different programs, and I've also seen it happen.

Lastly, the big issue here is that structurally, SU isn't working hard enough to put their money where their mouth is in regards to equity and inclusion. You swell the student body with international students and enjoy their 100% tuition (international students are not eligible for any form of public financial aid assistance) and the opportunity to tout your "diversity numbers" but they're not supported once they get here. Many programs designed to attract, support, and mentor students of color have either been cut completely, or grossly scaled back. (Paris Noir, POSSE, CSTEP, etc). The SEM 100 class that was instituted as a requirement for all incoming first-year students in the wake of the Theta Tau incident is an absolute joke, with little to no discussion about important racial or social issues. This most recent example of the administration telling students to keep this incident "quiet" so that other students would not get upset is abhorrent.


Having working with many students of color over the last few years at SU, I'm noticing that this generation's group of students are far more in tune with and more likely to advocate for social issues that affect them directly. They're also more likely to demand more from the institution in terms of equity and inclusion, and to voice their displeasure when those feelings and changes aren't met with support and structural change.

This is absolutely a "moment" happening at SU right now, and I wish more people were able to understand both how deep these issues of race, racism and inclusion run on this campus, and why our students are rightfully so upset how their "SU experience" is impacted as a result.

Hostile? I went to SU from 2006-2010. Besides a stupid question or two and being the first person someone came to when their laptop got stolen, I never felt as if it were a hostile place to be. I was one of two Black men on my floor at Brewster and I could count on both hands how many were in the BBB complex. I was often the only Black person in many of my classes. I don't know of this hostility you're describing. Everyone has different experiences. As a grad student, you should know better than to cast an umbrella over us. Black people are not a monolith.

 

[NateW]

Maybe he should ask his African American student athletes why at least one of them supports the protests.

I must have missed where JB was critical of the students’ boycott.

He had his own opinion on the matter regarding how much criticism the University deserves on the matter. And his opinion of the environment on campus. I know it’s SO SO hard for some to hear different opinions than their own.

Hughes has a great quote - “You can’t stop it. That’s the part that sucks.”

Some folks should reflect on that reality. You do what you can as an individual, a community, a University, an administration to curb these things - but you cannot stop it. It’s sad but true.

I have no problem with the students boycotting the game. If it helped them feel like it was a way of expressing their views in a manner that would get the University to listen, then I support that. But the idea that the campus, any campus, or the real world is going to be a safe space for them is in direct conflict with reality.

 

[HakAttack]

Yeah, working with African American student-athletes his entire working career and being on campus since the 60’s surely spits out a man who has no relevant experience to draw from.

Again, Boeheim interacts with less than 1% of the student body, so who is he to discuss an issue that is affecting the other 99%?

 

[HakAttack]

Hostile? I went to SU from 2006-2010. Besides a stupid question or two and being the first person someone came to when their laptop got stolen, I never felt as if it were a hostile place to be. I was one of two Black men on my floor at Brewster and I could count on both hands how many were in the BBB complex. I was often the only Black person in many of my classes. I don't know of this hostility you're describing. Everyone has different experiences. As a grad student, you should know better than to cast an umbrella over us. Black people are not a monolith.

I’m happy to hear that was your experience, but from the countless students I’ve talked to, what you’ve described is the exception, not the norm. PWIs ARE hostile spaces for students of color. Research backs that statement up. Again, not trying to argue over your experience and I’m glad you can remember your experience at SU fondly.

 

[shandeezy7]

Could it be some of us just think there’s better ways of handling this than harassing prospective students and protesting support for the basketball team.

One can support the right of people to protest and also find the way they’re doing it to be obnoxious.

I’m sure there’s much more to this than a lot of us realize, but when you have “public safety notices” about an Asian glory hole joke, you risk people not taking you as seriously as they should.

Seems to me as though there is no proper way to protest anything ever. I'm genuinely interested in what you view as a legitimate way to protest. Perhaps harassing prospective students is too much, but boycotting a basketball game is the perfect type of protest that obviously drew attention to the issue, since we are now 5+ pages deep in a thread debating it.

 

[shantydaze]

No problem. I am by no means an expert, but more connected to this stuff than most. I wanted to let the flames settle a little bit before weighing in, but yes, most don't have an idea of what's happening on campus unless you're there "in it." The "toughen up" rhetoric or the "ohhh, it's not that bad, it's just words" is really misguided and archaic, IMO.

(See above)...^^^^.

For Boeheim to say that SU isn't a hostile place for student of color didn't surprise me, because really, he has zero interaction with 99% of the student body, outside his basketball team. I'm not going to slay him for saying that, but he really shouldn't be speaking on this and making statements like that when he really doesn't have a perspective and experience that allows him to make such a statement.

Based on your experience and/or interaction with people of color, is SU more hostile than society in general? My assumption is yes and no. No, there are not more racists than in the society at large, but the number of racist interactions might be more or just more alarming. Syracuse University is meant to be a safe space for all students. Therefore, when racial incidents occur, this illusion of a safe place is shattered, making those incidents more alarming.

The other issue may be lack of education as opposed to intentional. For instance, in an earlier post, you mentioned students talking about "colored people". My first thought was the students simply did not understand the historical difference between "people of color" and "colored people" and were not only not trying to be offensive, but were trying to use an appropriate term. This type of thinking, however, likely demonstrates a significant difference in how a white person who does not experience racism reacts than a person of color who does. I would be more likely to downplay the incident as an innocent mistake, but someone who deals with it everyday, would be less likely to downplay it. Not because that person is too sensitive, but because it demonstrates the other person's failure to care enough to understand their point of view or empathize with them. This requires people to be educated that "innocent" racial comments, caricatures, or jokes are anything but to those that are the subject of them.

 

[NKR1978]

I must have missed where JB was critical of the students’ boycott.

He had his own opinion on the matter regarding how much criticism the University deserves on the matter. And his opinion of the environment on campus. I know it’s SO SO hard for some to hear different opinions than their own.

Hughes has a great quote - “You can’t stop it. That’s the part that sucks.”

Some folks should reflect on that reality. You do what you can as an individual, a community, a University, an administration to curb these things - but you cannot stop it. It’s sad but true.

I have no problem with the students boycotting the game. If it helped them feel like it was a way of expressing their views in a manner that would get the University to listen, then I support that. But the idea that the campus, any campus, or the real world is going to be a safe space for them is in direct conflict with reality.

I was referring to JB alluding that he doesn't see issues on campus.

 

[NateW]

Again, Boeheim interacts with less than 1% of the student body

You know this for a fact?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

You know this for a fact?

C'mon. You think Boeheim is going out of his way to interact with anybody? Just his personality. All of the coaches, regardless of sport, are pretty isolated down on the Manley Complex.

 

[HakAttack]

Based on your experience and/or interaction with people of color, is SU more hostile than society in general? My assumption is yes and no. No, there are not more racists than in the society at large, but the number of racist interactions might be more or just more alarming. Syracuse University is meant to be a safe space for all students. Therefore, when racial incidents occur, this illusion of a safe place is shattered, making those incidents more alarming.

The other issue may be lack of education as opposed to intentional. For instance, in an earlier post, you mentioned students talking about "colored people". My first thought was the students simply did not understand the historical difference between "people of color" and "colored people" and were not only not trying to be offensive, but were trying to use an appropriate term. This type of thinking, however, likely demonstrates a significant difference in how a white person who does not experience racism reacts than a person of color who does. I would be more likely to downplay the incident as an innocent mistake, but someone who deals with it everyday, would be less likely to downplay it. Not because that person is too sensitive, but because it demonstrates the other person's failure to care enough to understand their point of view or empathize with them. This requires people to be educated that "innocent" racial comments, caricatures, or jokes are anything but to those that are the subject of them.

Excellent post. I wouldn’t say that SU is more hostile in general, but you’ve got a large number of 18-22 year old white kids (many with extreme class privilege, mind you) coming to a space where many of them haven’t encountered social situations with or even been around POC. The level of unintended comments, like what you and I described is indicative of an institution (PWIs) where the vast majority of its students don’t experience racism or think about race on a regular basis.

I would venture to say that for the vast majority of the cases I’ve heard white students say “colored people” in my classrooms at SU, they’re not trying to be offensive. They legitimately have ZERO knowledge or idea of why that phrase is an issue. Hell, they may have grown up hearing their parents or those around them still use it, and haven’t questioned it.

But I bring up that as an example because in my opinion it’s not about intent vs. impact, it’s always about impact. As you stated, what does that signify about a space or environment when terms such as that are routinely thrown around as accepted vernacular?

SU is a bubble in some sense...all colleges are like that. The issue is what values and attitudes about these social issues are SU students bringing with them once they arrive here?

 

[OttoMets]

Or maybe he's in class as a refugee who escaped a horrible situation hearing white frat boys talk about how refugees are destroying the country and how it's awesome that we took in 0 as a nation over the past year. And he's seeing all these kids who grew up without want or fear gloating about shutting people like him out of their country. Weird culture.

And I'd be happy if JB asked all his athletes how they feel, but JBA isn't African American, he's plain old African. His experience likely does not mirror that of Elijah Hughes.

Haha, by "all of them" I meant all athletes. No stupidity intended. Your point is well taken.

 

[HakAttack]

You know this for a fact?

Do the math. SU has a total enrollment of 22,484. I’d venture to say that we have probably 250-400 student athletes total. How many of those does he even interact with outside of his own team?

How does he interact with more than just student athletes on a regular basis? As OttoMets pointed out, he comes to Manley, does his work as HC and goes home. He doesn’t come to main campus on a regular basis. He doesn’t hang out and talk to students. Come on. Are you seriously saying that Coach Boeheim is more in touch with what student life is like than the Dean of Students, or Dean of Hendricks Chapel, for instance?

 

[cuse10]

I’m happy to hear that was your experience, but from the countless students I’ve talked to, what you’ve described is the exception, not the norm. PWIs ARE hostile spaces for students of color. Research backs that statement up. Again, not trying to argue over your experience and I’m glad you can remember your experience at SU fondly.

I'm not trying to argue either. I've been asked if I'm here because I'm an athlete by students and professors alike. I've had the experience of being called the N word by my line brother while rushing a fraternity. Some people are going to react differently. I can't view that as hostile. Worrying about getting beat up after school or your face cut because you wore the wrong color is hostile. Words aren't. SU was a cakewalk and being one of the few hundred black students on campus prepared me for what corporate would be like as one of the few Black Americans in the room.

If these events happened as transpired, the students it impacted have a claim. However, asking to be segregated is not the way to go about it. Go to an HBCU if you want to be around people that look like you. The real world doesn't function like the college bubble.

 

[HakAttack]

I guess I just don't understand what students and maybe yourself expect SU to do in these kind of situations. Taking this specific one for example, wouldn't it be in the best interest to immediately have this painted over and to review for any information someone has about a culprit? By making a school wide announcement and it goign on twitter 99% more of the asian student population will see it versus it just being cleaned up as soon as it was discovered. As for Asian students being subjected to something like this I don't know in what world its possible to avoid any group be they black, white, native american, jewish, asian, etc etc from getting exposed to some sort of nonsense like this. I mean its literally impossible.

Good point. From what I can gather, and also talking with students who were at the protest yesterday, the issue that many have is the delay in letting the student body know about an incident that certainly can make certain groups of people feel very unsafe. I think that it’s easy to say that what people won’t know won’t hurt them, but in this case, that really doesn’t apply.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I'm not trying to argue either. I've been asked if I'm here because I'm an athlete by students and professors alike. I've had the experience of being called the N word by my line brother while rushing a fraternity. Some people are going to react differently. I can't view that as hostile. Worrying about getting beat up after school or your face cut because you wore the wrong color is hostile. Words aren't. SU was a cakewalk and being one of the few hundred black students on campus prepared me for what corporate would be like as one of the few Black Americans in the room.

If these events happened as transpired, the students it impacted have a claim. However, asking to be segregated is not the way to go about it. Go to an HBCU if you want to be around people that look like you. The real world doesn't function like the college bubble.

I was going to react to your initial post, but this goes in direction I was hoping you would go.

We're about the same age, but I'm a white guy from a non-diverse HS, college, or town. Just making that clear.

It seems as though, as a person of color, you've had to become pretty hardened to institutional and unconscious racism. From your explanation, I understand your pragmatism and real world viewpoint. That said, it seems as though the students 10 years younger than us are asking the question, "Why do we have to harden to that?" Idealistic, sure. But that's kind of what college is.

This is just my opinion / interpretation. I could be 1,000% wrong, and I don't want to seem like I'm race-'splain' when I come a background that lacks diversity.

 

[Trueblue25]

Or maybe he's in class as a refugee who escaped a horrible situation hearing white frat boys talk about how refugees are destroying the country and how it's awesome that we took in 0 as a nation over the past year. And he's seeing all these kids who grew up without want or fear gloating about shutting people like him out of their country. Weird culture.

And I'd be happy if JB asked all his athletes how they feel, but JBA isn't African American, he's plain old African. His experience likely does not mirror that of Elijah Hughes.

I am white, and was a fraternity guy a short time ago. We never said stuff like that. Racism and ignorance isn’t limited to just fraternity guys.

 

[HakAttack]

I'm not trying to argue either. I've been asked if I'm here because I'm an athlete by students and professors alike. I've had the experience of being called the N word by my line brother while rushing a fraternity. Some people are going to react differently. I can't view that as hostile. Worrying about getting beat up after school or your face cut because you wore the wrong color is hostile. Words aren't. SU was a cakewalk and being one of the few hundred black students on campus prepared me for what corporate would be like as one of the few Black Americans in the room.

If these events happened as transpired, the students it impacted have a claim. However, asking to be segregated is not the way to go about it. Go to an HBCU if you want to be around people that look like you. The real world doesn't function like the college bubble.

It seems as though, as a person of color, you've had to become pretty hardened to institutional and unconscious racism. From your explanation, I understand your pragmatism and real world viewpoint. That said, it seems as though the students 10 years younger than us are asking the question, "Why do we have to harden to that?" Idealistic, sure. But that's kind of what college is.

It’s pretty disappointing that in 2019 if I’m a student of color and I don’t want to be questioned for being on a white campus or why I’m there, or being called a n****r by other students, I’d have to go to an HBCU.

Surely we can expect more from PWIs than that.

 

[OttoMets]

Excellent post. I wouldn’t say that SU is more hostile in general, but you’ve got a large number of 18-22 year old white kids (many with extreme class privilege, mind you) coming to a space where many of them haven’t encountered social situations with or even been around POC. The level of unintended comments, like what you and I described is indicative of an institution (PWIs) where the vast majority of its students don’t experience racism or think about race on a regular basis.
...

Anecdote, from a different undergraduate institution:

My freshman year, I was sitting in my dorm room (a triple, FWIW) with half a dozen friends or neighbors watching Michael Jordan's comeback game with the Wizards. One of my roommates (a black kid from Philadelphia [and no, he wouldn't have minded my using that term, and yes, I'd say POC among a group of people I don't know]) said something lighthearted but kind of trollish and a friend of mine, a guy from our floor (a white kid from the western suburbs of Chicago) said in a similarly lighthearted way "be careful or we're gonna throw your black ass out of here."

JFC, still makes me feel bad to recount the story.

Sergio left the room, Dan was totally beside himself because he sincerely hadn't meant any harm (I believe him, though I probably wouldn't if I were reading this story about some generic white freshman), and I said the least he could do was leave as well. He ended up sort of self-reporting this situation to our RA and asking advice about how to patch things up. He also later told me that before coming to school, he'd never talked to a POC outside of a customer/serviceperson interaction.

People are weird. In college, sometimes that comes to a head in uncomfortable ways. That can be a productive thing for those who are looking to grow* and to help others grow.


*N.B.: bunch of people on the Archbold floor yesterday were, I think, professing to want to do the latter. I wonder how much consideration has been given to the former. As noted, my perception isn't really a positive one.

 

[dasher]

No problem. I am by no means an expert, but more connected to this stuff than most. I wanted to let the flames settle a little bit before weighing in, but yes, most don't have an idea of what's happening on campus unless you're there "in it." The "toughen up" rhetoric or the "ohhh, it's not that bad, it's just words" is really misguided and archaic, IMO.

For Boeheim to say that SU isn't a hostile place for student of color didn't surprise me, because really, he has zero interaction with 99% of the student body, outside his basketball team. I'm not going to slay him for saying that, but he really shouldn't be speaking on this and making statements like that when he really doesn't have a perspective and experience that allows him to make such a statement.

He has every right to say what he thinks. Just as you do.

 

[PhatOrange]

My favorite demand of the student protest group:

*A “same race” option for roommate selection on the student housing application.

 

[Trueblue25]

My favorite demand of the student protest group:

*A “same race” option for roommate selection on the student housing application.

Yikes!!!

 

[HakAttack]

My favorite demand of the student protest group:

*A “same race” option for roommate selection on the student housing application.

If I'm a student of color, why is this a bad thing?

 

[longislandcuse]

Seems to me as though there is no proper way to protest anything ever. I'm genuinely interested in what you view as a legitimate way to protest. Perhaps harassing prospective students is too much, but boycotting a basketball game is the perfect type of protest that obviously drew attention to the issue, since we are now 5+ pages deep in a thread debating it.

I’m simply saying one can support the right to protest and also think those protesting are being really ridiculous.

Perhaps that was their goal.. I didn’t know about all of this until I read a thread about protest tactics that I support the right of, but also find completely obnoxious.

Probably a win for them.