Per twitter no student section for this game

[JeremyCuse]

It’s not racist if it’s students of color receiving preference. It is if it’s white students. Big distinction.

Look if giving POC the ability to choose a same race roomate would be an answer to some issues I think most people would get behind that but you can't then tell a white kid he can't do the same because its racist. That's not going to work here or anywhere in this country.

 

[Trueblue25]

It’s not racist if it’s students of color receiving preference. It is if it’s white students. Big distinction.

so it’s racist if a white person prefers not to room with a POC.

but its not racist if a POC prefers not to room with a white person?

im not baiting, im really trying to understand the logic here.

 

[OttoMets]

So here’s my thing. I can’t possibly tell most folks on here and have them believe that it’s a good thing if student of color at a PWI want to live together so there’s less of a chance that they’re subject to stories like the one that you shared about your friend in college.

However, why should students of color be subjected to having to put up with peers that continually demonstrate a lack of cultural awareness and competency at best, little regard for their safety/openly racist/hostile at worst?

and the response of “well they better get used to how society at large is” doesn’t move the needle. That’s making excuses for the fact that they’re subjected to this treatment/behavior of others in the first place.

Maybe this is the difference between an emotional/pragmatic rationale and a more progressive/idealistic (educational) one?

I don't like the "better get used to it" excuse any more than you do. The goal - with a series of discrete and purposeful action steps attached - needs to be creating a university community and a society at large where nobody needs to get used to that.

"But how?" is the million-dollar question.

I don't think racial segregation (or, for that matter, self-segregation on the basis of stuff like "I'm a vegan" or "I like to stay up all night playing video games") is an answer.

Could it be a short-term source of comfort for a POC who's away at school for the first time? Of course. Does that resolve any macro, community-level problems? I don't think so. Could it create some? What are some unintended consequences of allowing (or even promoting) the seclusion of an ostensibly already marginalized group on campus? Does the institution have the responsibility to bring all students out of their comfort zones and get them interacting with the larger community? How could we reconcile that larger mission with real-life problems with racial sensitivity on campus?

I don't have the answers to some of those questions, but from a practical and ethical standpoint (forgetting about legality for a moment), I think race-based housing would be a short-sighted attempt to paper over rather than address some real problems.

 

[OttoMets]

When white people self-segregate it’s called “the suburbs”. When people of color self-segregate, somehow it’s a problem? It’s often done for their comfort/survival.

Arguably (Ghost what up) this is the major cause of the campus problem. I'm sure there's some malevolence, but the bulk of this is probably driven by the ignorance of sheltered kids whose parents sacrificed a broader cultural education in favor of higher-rated public schooling.

 

[longislandcuse]

Ahhh, the old “I dated a person of color” rebuttal. I was waiting for that!

I don’t know why that’s an a-ha moment for you?.. You assumed I don’t associate with any non-whites. At least I didn’t drop the “I have black friends” bomb on you. Which I do, but apparently no answer I give you is sufficient, because again.. we don’t agree, so in your mind I have to be some type of way.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Maybe this is the difference between an emotional/pragmatic rationale and a more progressive/idealistic (educational) one?

I don't like the "better get used to it" excuse any more than you do. The goal - with a series of discrete and purposeful action steps attached - needs to be creating a university community and a society at large where nobody needs to get used to that.

"But how?" is the million-dollar question.

I don't think racial segregation (or, for that matter, self-segregation on the basis of stuff like "I'm a vegan" or "I like to stay up all night playing video games") is an answer.

Could it be a short-term source of comfort for a POC who's away at school for the first time? Of course. Does that resolve any macro, community-level problems? I don't think so. Could it create some? What are some unintended consequences of allowing (or even promoting) the seclusion of an ostensibly already marginalized group on campus? Does the institution have the responsibility to bring all students out of their comfort zones and get them interacting with the larger community? How could we reconcile that larger mission with real-life problems with racial sensitivity on campus?

I don't have the answers to some of those questions, but from a practical and ethical standpoint (forgetting about legality for a moment), I think race-based housing would be a short-sighted attempt to paper over rather than address some real problems.

All excellent points (you probably should have a Dr. Phil type show at this point) but as a reminder my question is how does any of what both of your proposed do anything to stop someone ( no idea who at this point) from writing a racist message in a bathroom. Again I have to keep coming back to the issue of context here when discussing the overall situation. I know Hak is talking more about the overall issues on campus which I can respect as I am not on the front lines there but again this issue was the graffiti that we have no idea who is responsible or if said person is even an SU student employee or Caucasian.

 

[NKR1978]

Well reasoned, response. Thank you. Before I get labeled as a “race baiter or agitator” I think drawing attention to the last part of your statement is what the focus should be.

I’ve yet to see how that can happen though, so I remain skeptical.

It's shocking, but not really shocking at all, that not many people seem to be reading what you're actually saying, and the fact that this is your field of study and perhaps the research you've done/studied is more thorough than personal anecdotal experience.

I think one fear is that "coddling" POC isn't going to do anyone any favors in life, and especially for the world after college.

 

[rrlbees]

So, a few observations from my end, as a graduate student at SU whose main area of focus is race, and racism on college campuses.

First, this is not an isolated incident just at SU. All PWIs (Predominantly White Institutions) struggle with issues of race and racism. That is in part because we live in a racist society, but it's also because students often don't have much of a semblance of cultural/racial literacy and competency before they come to college. A prime example of this is when I hear white students use the phrase "colored people" EVERY semester I teach a class at SU. This has happened EVERY. SINGLE. SEMESTER for over five years straight. I've also heard it at other schools too. Whether or not the intent is to harm when that phrase is uttered by an unaware student, the larger lack of awareness remains.

Secondly, SU is absolutely a hostile place for students of color. Point blank. Full stop. How many examples do you need? The "blackface halloween" incident in the early 00's. How about "Over the Hill" student TV programming a few years later? Or the Theta Tau incident last year? Or the Ackerman assault last spring, which the administration tried to downplay and said wasn't racially motivated. Or, if you'd like something more common and everyplace, how about the numerous times I've heard white students in the SU basketball section next to me, while we're watching games at the Dome refer to our black basketball players as "monkeys" and "n****rs". Students of color are routinely harassed at SU, their experiences often invalidated by faculty. I know this because I've worked with many students of color on campus at SU through different programs, and I've also seen it happen.

Lastly, the big issue here is that structurally, SU isn't working hard enough to put their money where their mouth is in regards to equity and inclusion. You swell the student body with international students and enjoy their 100% tuition (international students are not eligible for any form of public financial aid assistance) and the opportunity to tout your "diversity numbers" but they're not supported once they get here. Many programs designed to attract, support, and mentor students of color have either been cut completely, or grossly scaled back. (Paris Noir, POSSE, CSTEP, etc). The SEM 100 class that was instituted as a requirement for all incoming first-year students in the wake of the Theta Tau incident is an absolute joke, with little to no discussion about important racial or social issues. This most recent example of the administration telling students to keep this incident "quiet" so that other students would not get upset is abhorrent.


Having working with many students of color over the last few years at SU, I'm noticing that this generation's group of students are far more in tune with and more likely to advocate for social issues that affect them directly. They're also more likely to demand more from the institution in terms of equity and inclusion, and to voice their displeasure when those feelings and changes aren't met with support and structural change.

This is absolutely a "moment" happening at SU right now, and I wish more people were able to understand both how deep these issues of race, racism and inclusion run on this campus, and why our students are rightfully so upset how their "SU experience" is impacted as a result.

excellent post. The issue is greater than either of the singular incidents the past few days. Many people want to look at those incidents in a vacuum. Still others can’t see that racism is still a big issue in society and certainly on campus.

 

[OttoMets]

All excellent points (you probably should have a Dr. Phil type show at this point) but as a reminder my question is how does any of what both of your proposed do anything to stop someone ( no idea who at this point) from writing a racist message in a bathroom. Again I have to keep coming back to the issue of context here when discussing the overall situation. I know Hak is talking more about the overall issues on campus which I can respect as I am not on the front lines there but again this issue was the graffiti that we have no idea who is responsible or if said person is even an SU student employee or Caucasian.

Here's the kicker: I thought the Asian thing was funny. Not ground-breaking LOL funny, but it made me smile. It's sophomoric, but if someone said the same thing on Netflix, it'd earn a laugh from most of us.

So all the well-intentioned improvements we could make still aren't going to (and maybe shouldn't? I dunno, another topic for another day) prevent college kids from making attempts at humor in ways that might hurt other college kids' feelings. (Though I believe most Asian friends I can think of would also get a laugh out of that.)

Not that that should stop attempts to solve real racial problems. But I wish it would highlight how problematic it is for scribbling on a bathroom wall to be conflated with hate crimes (or verbal hostility that doesn't rise to that level).

If I had faith that SU's administration or the kids in Archbold could exchange ideas as calmly and insightfully as everyone in this thread, I'd feel a lot better about the world. But instead the kids are demanding and Syverud is pandering and nobody's gonna learn anything.

 

[moqui]

Apparently this was the graffiti directed at the Asians. I think I saw stuff 10x worse than this in the bathroom stalls in Middle School.

ok, milly
(aimed at zoe not you, reddawg)

 

[HakAttack]

Same race roommate option makes sense because as I’ve gone through life I’ve found that my job offered me the same race boss option, the same race client option, the same race coworker option. My neighborhood offered me the same race neighbor option, the same race postal worker option, the same race grocery store clerk option, the same race pizza tosser guy option. Your options are endless.

You must be a white guy. What you’re describing really makes sense for white folks.

so it’s racist if a white person prefers not to room with a POC.

but its not racist if a POC prefers not to room with a white person?

im not baiting, im really trying to understand the logic here.

I don’t know why that’s an a-ha moment for you?.. You assumed I don’t associate with any non-whites. At least I didn’t drop the “I have black friends” bomb on you. Which I do, but apparently no answer I give you is sufficient, because again.. we don’t agree, so in your mind I have to be some type of way.

It’s cool. We don’t have to agree. And despite what I’m appearing to say, I don’t think of you in some kind of way. At least you’re willing to discuss this issue/dialogue back and forth about it. I appreciate it. Most will ignore it or downplay what happened.

 

[HakAttack]

so it’s racist if a white person prefers not to room with a POC.

but its not racist if a POC prefers not to room with a white person?

im not baiting, im really trying to understand the logic here.

I’m coming from the standpoint that racism is not a two-way street or revolving door. That there’s no such thing as “reverse racism”. Because we live in a white supremacist country, White people cannot be the victims of racism.

 

[OttoMets]

You must be a white guy. What you’re describing really makes sense for white folks.



It’s cool. We don’t have to agree. At least you’re willing to discuss this issue/dialogue back and forth about it. Most will ignore it or downplay what happened.

Agree, I appreciate your even keel and background knowledge here, and this is a strong conversation and a good point, but here's a question that reflects a real concern I've got:

Would a racially segregated student body (or a more segregated body than currently exists) be more or less likely to have this kind of exchange of ideas among racially disparate groups?

I think this kind of discussion is productive, even if nobody comes away having had his mind changed. I hope college students have the same opportunities to be challenged and to present thoughts in a logical manner as a group of goofy online college football fans do.

 

[310Pigpen]

Who are we as white folks to say what families/students of color should have to do in the name of “progress”?

Do you have any neighbors, literally any neighbors that don’t look like you? Do you interact socially on a regular basis with any other people that don’t look like you? I’m guessing not.

I live in a suburb and 4 out of the 6 houses around me are POC. And I interact daily with people that don’t look like me.

 

[NateW]

You must be a white guy. What you’re describing really makes sense for white folks.

And you must be a college kid. What you’re describing really makes sense to college kids.

 

[HakAttack]

Agree, I appreciate your even keel and background knowledge here, and this is a strong conversation and a good point, but here's a question that reflects a real concern I've got:

Would a racially segregated student body (or a more segregated body than currently exists) be more or less likely to have this kind of exchange of ideas among racially disparate groups?

I think this kind of discussion is productive, even if nobody comes away having had his mind changed. I hope college students have the same opportunities to be challenged and to present thoughts in a logical manner as a group of goofy online college football fans do.

It’s a great question. I think white folks generally would discuss this less, if there’s more segregation. There’s also the idea that integration is only for POC’s benefit. It’s also hugely beneficial for white people as they’re able to learn and see how systems of racism take place.

To answer your question directly, no, I don’t think such conversations would take place, at least amongst white people. Communities of color have been talking about racism far longer, so I would perhaps think that the conversations would continue from that perspective.

All of these issues, “race”, “racism on campus”, “student protest”, etc is perfectly captured in a recent movie: “Dear White People”. It is absolutely worth checking out. There was a series made after the movie on Netflix, but watch the movie first. It may give some more context to a lot of what I’m saying/advocating for.

 

[UpstateSM]

I played college basketball in upstate NY with black kids from all over the state and country. They got dirty looks at certain restaurants, were falsely accused of things that I would never have been, a couple of them and I were not allowed into a party that was letting white kids in without "knowing anybody" or the old "brining their fair share of girls." I'm sure I could text them and get some more examples.

White people shouldn't question issues of racism and they should never make it about themselves because frankly we will never comprehend how good we have it. The method of the protest may not be the best and some people may think protesting in general is stupid but at the end of the day their cause is one of legitimacy.

 

[Trueblue25]

I’m coming from the standpoint that racism is not a two-way street or revolving door. That there’s no such thing as “reverse racism”. Because we live in a white supremacist country, White people cannot be the victims of racism.

Are you proactively trying to change that? Or just adapt to it in a way that makes it slightly less uncomfortable for POC’s, but really changes nothing?

Racism needs to be a two way street, otherwise meaningful change doesn’t happen. You can’t just put all whites in one bucket, just like you can’t put all of any race in one bucket. It’s counteractive and part of the underlying issue.

 

[EastCoast2]

There's a good chance that this is another Jussie Smollett style hoax.

 

[HakAttack]

Are you proactively trying to change that? Or just adapt to it in a way that makes it slightly less uncomfortable for POC’s, but really changes nothing?

Racism needs to be a two way street, otherwise meaningful change doesn’t happen. You can’t just put all whites in one bucket, just like you can’t put all of any race in one bucket. It’s counteractive and part of the underlying issue.

No, racism isn’t a two way street, nor should it be. That’s akin so saying that in Charlottesville there was “bad people on both sides.” Only white folks can be racist. Whether or not white people want it, or are openly racist in their own lives, they all benefit from being white in a racist society. That doesn’t mean that all white people are bad. That’s not what I’m saying.

Because racism is a systemic issue and not just a personal issue of individual interaction, in a society where one race has the most privilege and social power, only whites can be racist.

 

[Consigliere]

Yeah, he's good at this stuff, usually appreciate his takes. I just take issue with the idea that this has become headline news.

It's bad, we get it. Wash it off, move on. And publicly smack down whatever "tolerant" community members are petitioning to have race-based roommate selection as a response to this tempest in a teapot.

Saved me a couple dozen keystrokes. Thanks!

 

[310Pigpen]

No, racism isn’t a two way street, nor should it be. That’s akin so saying that in Charlottesville there was “bad people on both sides.” Only white folks can be racist. Whether or not white people want it, or are openly racist in their own lives, they all benefit from being white in a racist society. That doesn’t mean that all white people are bad. That’s not what I’m saying.

Because racism is a systemic issue and not just a personal issue of individual interaction, in a society where one race has the most privilege and social power, only whites can be racist.

So if a POC discriminates against a white person that’s not racism? What is it then?

 

[NKR1978]

There's a good chance that this is another Jussie Smollett style hoax.

Or like when "Joey Salads" hired a couple black guys to attack a car with Trump bumper stickers all over it.

 

[NKR1978]

Because racism is a systemic issue and not just a personal issue of individual interaction, in a society where one race has the most privilege and social power, only whites can be racist.

I agree that there is no systemic racism against white people. Though there are definitely bias crimes perpetuated by POC against white victims that are motivated in part by racism. Though, you seem to be using a more specific definition of racism that lay people might

 

[kuethstheman]

No, racism isn’t a two way street, nor should it be. That’s akin so saying that in Charlottesville there was “bad people on both sides.” Only white folks can be racist. Whether or not white people want it, or are openly racist in their own lives, they all benefit from being white in a racist society. That doesn’t mean that all white people are bad. That’s not what I’m saying.

Because racism is a systemic issue and not just a personal issue of individual interaction, in a society where one race has the most privilege and social power, only whites can be racist.

I wish we could come up with a different word than "racism", in this context (maybe someone has?). Since the actual definition of the word is different than how it's being used, it confuses people, prompting at least some white people to be defensive and automatically opposed. Including me, until it was explained to me.