Poll: Guard or Forward?

[pearl31]

Curious as to what yous think...
(I think the guard spot requires a better athlete than forward)

 

[Trueblue25]

An athletic forward that can handle is a difference maker

 

[pearl31]

An athletic forward that can handle is a difference maker

Yes, but this question pertains to defense only

 

[jdubs30]

Guard... easily

 

[007]

Curious as to what yous think...
(I think the guard spot requires a better athlete than forward)

The way JB runs his zone, there is no question in my mind the forwards need to be better "athletes" - if athlete, in this case, is defined as length, quickness, reaction speed, close out speed, rebounding, and, to a lesser degree, shot blocking.

The Fs in JB's zone are required to cover from beyond the 3 pt line above the foul line extended on the strong side, to the opposite side low blocks and short corner on ball reversals or overloads.

 

[JoeySimz]

I’m going to go with forward although I think traditionally JB’s best teams have athletes everywhere. Interesting question since it seems we have been shifting to recruiting more shooters lately. I just think our best zones require athletic forwards that cover ground, jump well, get blocks, and have quick hands. Although every one I can think of also had athletic guards so...hmmmm. Not bad Pearl

 

[Coach Orange]

As 007 stated above, forwards are required to cover more ground than guards based on their responsibilities as the ball moves. According to Coach Boeheim himself (and, anecdotally, my experiences teaching the zone to players at lower levels show this to be accurate), the two most difficult rotations in the zone are:

1) The forwards quickly rotating to the low blocks when the center has to cover the ball in the high post.
2) The weak-side forward rotating down quickly to cover the hoop when the ball is in the opposite corner/short corner.

Furthermore, our forwards must often rebound in one-on-two situations. Better athleticism allows that to work more effectively.

Ideally, all players in our zone should possess agility, quickness, vertical-leaping ability, and length for it to be dominant, but the forwards must have these qualities for it to really click.

 

[007]

As 007 stated above, forwards are required to cover more ground than guards based on their responsibilities as the ball moves. According to Coach Boeheim himself (and, anecdotally, my experiences teaching the zone to players at lower levels show this to be accurate), the two most difficult rotations in the zone are:

1) The forwards quickly rotating to the low blocks when the center has to cover the ball in the high post.
2) The weak-side forward rotating down quickly to cover the hoop when the ball is in the opposite corner/short corner.

Furthermore, our forwards must often rebound in one-on-two situations. Better athleticism allows that to work more effectively.

Ideally, all players in our zone should possess agility, quickness, vertical-leaping ability, and length for it to be dominant, but the forwards must have these qualities for it to really click.

Yeah, it's an interesting question, but this one isn't even close. The Fs are asked to do a lot.

Having length at the top of the zone is very important, especially relative to making the entry passes to the high post more difficult. But having length at the top at the expense of offensive skill sets, especially at PG, has cost us over the years.

 

[Niastri]

The way JB runs his zone, there is no question in my mind the forwards need to be better "athletes" - if athlete, in this case, is defined as length, quickness, reaction speed, close out speed, rebounding, and, to a lesser degree, shot blocking.

The Fs in JB's zone are required to cover from beyond the 3 pt line above the foul line extended on the strong side, to the opposite side low blocks and short corner on ball reversals or overloads.

And be able to rebound better than a dead guy without ever getting to box out.

 

[pearl31]

I think we need both. We need a forward more to replace Hughes if he stays in the draft. We need a guard for depth and to have competitive practices.

different thread, Brian, different thread

 

[Briancuse]

different thread, Brian, different thread

I'm going stir crazy here lol. My bad.

 

[walsh2012]

preferably someone who can play both, but depends on the quality of player.

big bobby bras can make a big-time upgrade hopefully

 

[cuseguy]

A guard isn’t going to play much. But we do need a backup guard. A small forward who can score is essential.

 

[OttoMets]

As 007 stated above, forwards are required to cover more ground than guards based on their responsibilities as the ball moves. According to Coach Boeheim himself (and, anecdotally, my experiences teaching the zone to players at lower levels show this to be accurate), the two most difficult rotations in the zone are:

1) The forwards quickly rotating to the low blocks when the center has to cover the ball in the high post.
2) The weak-side forward rotating down quickly to cover the hoop when the ball is in the opposite corner/short corner.

Furthermore, our forwards must often rebound in one-on-two situations. Better athleticism allows that to work more effectively.

Ideally, all players in our zone should possess agility, quickness, vertical-leaping ability, and length for it to be dominant, but the forwards must have these qualities for it to really click.

The way JB runs his zone, there is no question in my mind the forwards need to be better "athletes" - if athlete, in this case, is defined as length, quickness, reaction speed, close out speed, rebounding, and, to a lesser degree, shot blocking.

The Fs in JB's zone are required to cover from beyond the 3 pt line above the foul line extended on the strong side, to the opposite side low blocks and short corner on ball reversals or overloads.

Good stuff here! Coach, where have you been for all these years? Love the insights.

Here's my simple test: can Jason Cipolla be good defensively at one position? Can Wesley Johnson be average at the other? There's your answer as to which one is more difficult.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Maybe I don’t understand the question but I think the taller you are the better defender you are by default up top and the shorter you are the harder time you’ll have trying to collect rebounds down low. It’s obviously not that basic but that’s my reasoning so answer is forward.

 

[pearl31]

Maybe I don’t understand the question but I think the taller you are the better defender you are by default up top and the shorter you are the harder time you’ll have trying to collect rebounds down low. It’s obviously not that basic but that’s my reasoning so answer is forward.

I dunno, I guess "athleticism" points toward things like lateral quickness, jumping ability, foot speed... so if a 6'6" guy excels in those areas, i.e. is "athletic", what is his optimal/ideal defensive position in JB's 2-3?

 

[Gotothehole]

Big Man

 

[orangecuse]

I dunno, I guess "athleticism" points toward things like lateral quickness, jumping ability, foot speed... so if a 6'6" guy excels in those areas, i.e. is "athletic", what is his optimal/ideal defensive position in JB's 2-3?

IMO, solid defensive play at the top of the zone is critical, you need to have at least decent athleticism up there, otherwise, the oppositions guards can simply navigate around them rather easily as they did this year and then all hell breaks loose on D.

 

[pearl31]

(and, conversely, if a 6'6" guy clearly lacks in some of those "athletic" facets, but you need him for offense, where do you slot him...)

 

[samspann1]

(and, conversely, if a 6'6" guy clearly lacks in some of those "athletic" facets, but you need him for offense, where do you slot him...)

Tough call.

Personally, I was (and am) of the opinion that I'd rather recruit for offense than for the defense. But, that's under the assumption that the offensive guys we bring in are average on D, and are average rebounders.
I'd much rather have plus offensive/average D/average rebounding players than plus defensive/average offensive/average rebounding players.

This year, a couple of our guys were downright bad on D, and rebounding was an issue.

 

[pearl31]

Tough call.

Personally, I was (and am) of the opinion that I'd rather recruit for offense than for the defense. But, that's under the assumption that the offensive guys we bring in are average on D, and are average rebounders.
I'd much rather have plus offensive/average D/average rebounding players than plus defensive/average offensive/average rebounding players.

This year, a couple of our guys were downright bad on D, and rebounding was an issue.

and also I think of Andrew White - at first we tried him at the top of the zone but it was immediately apparent that didn't work, so he was moved to the wing and was marginally better there