Potential JB successors | Page 11 | Syracusefan.com

Potential JB successors

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I actually want Hop or G or Red and i cant answer the question.
My gut tells me he will do very well. I dont think he will be out worked by any other coach. I believe he loves SU more than any other coach and because of that can sell the school. I dont think he will ever leave for another school. I believe he understands the Guard position and can coach it. I think that he will have a dynamic staff. I believe he will play multiple Ds.
I think hes smart and he connects with todays kids.
Other than that i dont know.
 
kcsu said:
I actually want Hop or G or Red and i cant answer the question.
My gut tells me he will do very well. I dont think he will be out worked by any other coach. I believe he loves SU more than any other coach and because of that can sell the school. I dont think he will ever leave for another school. I believe he understands the Guard position and can coach it. I think that he will have a dynamic staff. I believe he will play multiple Ds.
I think hes smart and he connects with todays kids.
Other than that i dont know.
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But why would GMac get the job over Red?
 
OrlandoCuse said:
But why would GMac get the job over Red?
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Besides a coaching title, what do we know about Red that makes him a better coach than GMAC? Unless you see them interacting with players and coaching in practice or breaking down tapes and game planning, fans don’t have a clue.
 
hoopsupstate said:
Besides a coaching title, what do we know about Red that makes him a better coach than GMAC? Unless you see them interacting with players and coaching in practice or breaking down tapes and game planning, fans don’t have a clue.
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So, you don’t have an answer. Got it.
 
hoopsupstate said:
Neither does anyone else, but maybe JB and Wildhack. That’s my point. Wildhack will make the decision. It doesn’t matter what any of us think.
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This isn’t about the actual coaching selection, as we all know who ultimately controls the process. This is about determining why those who think GMac will get the job will get it over Red. I can’t see where GMac is ahead of Red if they went for an internal hire. Why do people think GMac would or should get the job over Red? If GMac were the better coach and candidate, why wouldn’t he be the Associate Head Coach and they ask Red to move on?

Maybe I’m missing something…….?
 
OttoinGrotto said:
What qualities has Gerry demonstrated that show us we want him to lead the program, and how did he demonstrate them?
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Knowledge of the game- check
Players who love to play for him- check
Fiery desire to win- check
Fan base that loves him save for a handful of dopes on syracusefan.com- CHECK!
 
Dcuse said:
Knowledge of the game- check
Players who love to play for him- check
Fiery desire to win- check
Fan base that loves him save for a handful of dopes on syracusefan.com- CHECK!
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Goodness me, this is pretty much every coach or up and coming coach in America, if this is the criteria we are basing the coaching decision on we will be mediocre to bad for a very long time.

Thankfully I trust the people who actually make the decisions will look at track records of success in coaching and recruiting, which hopefully will be an established name who has run a successful program.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Yeah, I'm really not as convinced as you are.
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At some point, the fanbase will come to acknowledge that in the big scheme of things, both Red and GMac are pretty limited with respect to their coaching acumen.

That they both are being discussed by the fanbase [not the athletic department, for the record] as prospective replacements for JB is absurd, putting it mildly.
 
kcsu said:
I actually want Hop or G or Red and i cant answer the question.
My gut tells me he will do very well. I dont think he will be out worked by any other coach. I believe he loves SU more than any other coach and because of that can sell the school. I dont think he will ever leave for another school. I believe he understands the Guard position and can coach it. I think that he will have a dynamic staff. I believe he will play multiple Ds.
I think hes smart and he connects with todays kids.
Other than that i dont know.
Expand...

I'm not calling you out, I legitimately am not.

But this sums up the "position" those advocating Red / Gmac / Hop are basing their case on. The performance isn't there, you can't articulate any logic, theory, or empirical evidence for WHY they'd be good coaches, beyond they have ties to the program.

Again, not calling you out, KCSU -- but this post provides a lot of insight. It indicates that your endorsement / support of their candidacy to replace JB is based upon nostalgia, and not merit based criteria.
 
RF2044 said:
I'm not calling you out, I legitimately am not.

But this sums up the "position" those advocating Red / Gmac / Hop are basing their case on. The performance isn't there, you can't articulate any logic, theory, or empirical evidence for WHY they'd be good coaches, beyond they have ties to the program.

Again, not calling you out, KCSU -- but this post provides a lot of insight. It indicates that your endorsement / support of their candidacy to replace JB is based upon nostalgia, and not merit based criteria.
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No. Its based on over 40 years of running a significant corporation. When you have over 50 years of success achieved by Danforth and JB. 50 years of relationships. 50 years of students, coaches, administrators, HS relationships, donors, and 50 plus years of players that love the program you transition the CEO position to an insider. The only time any successful organization should even consider burning down and 50 years of unprecedented success is if the organization is being acquired or merged.
Going outside is extremely dangerous. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that another coach from outside the organization will have success. Zero, none. The fact is that at a bare minimum by going outside 50 years of foundation will be seriously altered. With a strong chance destroyed.
I have followed this plan for over 40 years and had excellent success.
SU should 100% stay in house. The only decision is between the 3 candidates.
 
Hire Oats on Monday and end this recent nightmare.

We are Nebraska Football right now that dude will immediately inject talent and high recruits and he has upstate NY ties. Hes kinda an A hole which is perfect like a younger Boeheim.
 
kcsu said:
No. Its based on over 40 years of running a significant corporation. When you have over 50 years of success achieved by Danforth and JB. 50 years of relationships. 50 years of students, coaches, administrators, HS relationships, donors, and 50 plus years of players that love the program you transition the CEO position to an insider. The only time any successful organization should even consider burning down and 50 years of unprecedented success is if the organization is being acquired or merged.
Going outside is extremely dangerous. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that another coach from outside the organization will have success. Zero, none. The fact is that at a bare minimum by going outside 50 years of foundation will be seriously altered. With a strong chance destroyed.
I have followed this plan for over 40 years and had excellent success.
SU should 100% stay in house. The only decision is between the 3 candidates.
Expand...
I see where you’re going with this, but in our instance revenue and profits have decreased so it may be a good idea to bring in an outside viewpoint.

I do agree with you that I believe the coach will be an alum whether I agree with it or not. In any instance the next coach needs all the resources possible to bring the program back into the national conversation.
 
kcsu said:
No. Its based on over 40 years of running a significant corporation. When you have over 50 years of success achieved by Danforth and JB. 50 years of relationships. 50 years of students, coaches, administrators, HS relationships, donors, and 50 plus years of players that love the program you transition the CEO position to an insider. The only time any successful organization should even consider burning down and 50 years of unprecedented success is if the organization is being acquired or merged.
Going outside is extremely dangerous. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that another coach from outside the organization will have success. Zero, none. The fact is that at a bare minimum by going outside 50 years of foundation will be seriously altered. With a strong chance destroyed.
I have followed this plan for over 40 years and had excellent success.
SU should 100% stay in house. The only decision is between the 3 candidates.
Expand...
Name your coach and ill give you 5 reasons why they could fail. My point is simple. Unless you know that the insider will fail you dont risk a 50 year organization. You give the insider the opportunity. If they fail at that point you go outside. Its business 101
 
Dcuse said:
Knowledge of the game- check
Players who love to play for him- check
Fiery desire to win- check
Fan base that loves him save for a handful of dopes on syracusefan.com- CHECK!
Expand...
How do you know all of that? We really don't know his knowledge of the game. Certainly not because he played the game. A lot of guys played the game and can't coach it. How do we know that players love to play for him? It certainly didn't help us keep kids last year. I'm sure he has a fiery desire to win. Just like almost everyone else. If you make decisions on what the fans want, sooner or later, you end up sitting with them.
 
kcsu said:
Name your coach and ill give you 5 reasons why they could fail. My point is simple. Unless you know that the insider will fail you dont risk a 50 year organization. You give the insider the opportunity. If they fail at that point you go outside. Its business 101
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You just answered your own post. I disagree with you. You hire from withing when things are going well and you don't want to change things. When things are going not so good, you make changes. That is the position we are in right now. None of our ass'ts can get a head coaching job somewhere else right now. Why is that? Because we aren't winning right now., No one else will hire our guys but a "elite" program like ours should? That isn't business 101. And I'm sensitive about this. I was once promoted to run the national sales force for a large financial institution. I have always been grateful that the firm hired from within and didn't do any national search. But we were winning.
 
kcsu said:
Name your coach and ill give you 5 reasons why they could fail. My point is simple. Unless you know that the insider will fail you dont risk a 50 year organization. You give the insider the opportunity. If they fail at that point you go outside. Its business 101
Expand...
People think we'll find a messiah to lead us to the promised land. Look how well that's worked for football. Someone tried to tell me Syracuse doesn't have a "football culture". Not after 17 seasons of losing we don't but we sure as hell did.

Until JB retires this conversation is irrelevant.
 
dasher said:
You just answered your own post. I disagree with you. You hire from withing when things are going well and you don't want to change things. When things are going not so good, you make changes. That is the position we are in right now. None of our ass'ts can get a head coaching job somewhere else right now. Why is that? Because we aren't winning right now., No one else will hire our guys but a "elite" program like ours should? That isn't business 101. And I'm sensitive about this. I was once promoted to run the national sales force for a large financial institution. I have always been grateful that the firm hired from within and didn't do any national search. But we were winning.
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SU has 50 plus years of winning. Now and ive posted this if JB craps the bed again next year JW might just go outside. Next season is huge for Jim if he wants to keep it in the family.
 
Ostensibly, the same reasons why the AD might believe Red or Gerry are 'qualified' to be the next head coach would be the same as those when Hopkins was designated HCiW. The same as for Scheyer at Duke. Boeheim himself. The same for any assistant promoted in any program in any sport throughout history. The same for anyone in any job in any industry who gets a promotion. The person has demonstrated "acumen" and intelligence and passion and competency at important skills. That's not "proof" they'll succeed in the next chair, but neither is success at a small program, leading to being labeled 'the next big thing.' It's probably more comfortable to believe that HC success on any level is proof, but that's as context-driven as failure. And, with bringing in an outsider, you're relying on a resumé, not a relationship and personal experience.

That all said, i'm not campaigning for the internals. Actually, having seen a few hours of teams in this tournament, i'm more fully on the side of wanting completely new blood and a complete overhaul. It's not that Red or GMac can't correct the course, but i fear they're both too ensconced in an ethos that is old hat, and i can't trust that they'd be inclined, inspired, or capable of breaking out of the JAB mold.
 
kcsu said:
Name your coach and ill give you 5 reasons why they could fail. My point is simple. Unless you know that the insider will fail you dont risk a 50 year organization. You give the insider the opportunity. If they fail at that point you go outside. Its business 101
Expand...
That only applies if the current trajectory of the program is on the rise or maintaining an elite level. We are clearly not fitting either category
 
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