Program Reset...

[Fly Rodder]

There’s this pervading opinion that Jackson is some kind of program saving talent. He is not. He is very talented, no doubt, but it's likely only a 33% chance he commits to SU anyway. And SU is about O-fer on those guys who were thought to be for about 17 years now.

The end of coaching eras are exceptionally difficult transitions and this one will be no different regardless of how blue blood or esteemed the program is. IMO, they screwed it up and made a bigger mess of things he second they started with the coach in waiting nonsense.

 

[HOFCeluck]

More the defense thing, which I'd expect to be solid last night. Devoid of context, it is kind of crazy to lose our minds over a terrible offensive game against a well-coached defense in a weird conference/season opener.

Inserting context into the conversation (years of futility, historic offensive ineptitude ever compared to the UVa game a couple years ago, continued reliance on Boeheim's inept offensive scheme), it all makes more sense.

I mean I was under the impression that more shooters plus the loss of ball-stoppers plus a year of experience for Jalen Carey would mean good things for the offense.

But lol @ me I guess.

 

[OrangeDW]

Sure.

But a couple of points. First that hasn't happened yet. And even if it does to a degree, we are far from the break-even point.

Second, is what to do about it. My operational theory is that SU will win fewer games under the next HC. My guess is Wildhack agrees. We are more likely to emulate St Johns and Georgetown than anyone else.

No. We’re in a be

Sure.

But a couple of points. First that hasn't happened yet. And even if it does to a degree, we are far from the break-even point.

Second, is what to do about it. My operational theory is that SU will win fewer games under the next HC. My guess is Wildhack agrees. We are more likely to emulate St Johns and Georgetown than anyone else.

Depends on who we get.

If Hop was here reeling in top 10 recruits, like he is out West, we’d be winning more than we are.

 

[jncuse]

We are still feeling the hit from the 2014 penalties. Give it another 5 years.

 

[OrangeDW]

There’s this pervading opinion that Jackson is some kind of program saving talent. He is not. He is very talented, no doubt, but it's likely only a 33% chance he commits to SU anyway. And SU is about O-fer on those guys who were thought to be for about 17 years now.

The end of coaching eras are exceptionally difficult transitions and this one will be no different regardless of how blue blood or esteemed the program is. IMO, they screwed it up and made a bigger mess of things he second they started with the coach in waiting nonsense.

He’s a big guy who can walk and chew gum. He’d help immensely. Biggest reason we’ve ever won at Cameron is Roberson and Chukwu played the games of their lives. We need production inside to be any good.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

Maybe we need to bring Bernie Fine back to work with the bigs

 

[FrancoPizza]

We are still feeling the hit from the 2014 penalties. Give it another 5 years.

Not sure if serious.

 

[phil77]

I am getting tired of blaming the players. It is always the PG fault. I can tell you this much PG or not that offensive system we run or don't run is the real problem. There is no system for a PG and our bigs do not even set proper screens at the top to allow the PGs a chance to make a play. We also have no real threat in the middle so when they do there half-hearted pick they just double the ball and force the ball out of the hands of the ball handler.

It is the offensive system, not the PG or lack thereof.

 

[OrangeDW]

I thought we didn’t get good players anymore. Is that more hyperbole from people who expect 3 players a year all 1-20 in the rankings

I mean, yes and no. We get some good players - enough to be better than we are. College hoops as a whole just gets gradually worse and worse. So we certainly don’t get as good of players as we used to IMO. That’s also true for most schools.

looking back in 10 year increments...

Who from this team would play on the 2010 team? Nobody. Not one of these guys would crack that top 7.

2000? Again, probably nobody. Hughes would have to beat Shumpert out for 6th man spot. They wouldn’t both play. Our backup guards from that team(Griffin and Williams) would start on this team.

1990? Again - probably nobody. MAYBE Buddy or Hughes or Girard off the bench solely because that team had no shooting, but there were guys on that team who were role players that were better than anybody on this team. Is Hughes better than Tony Scott? He’s not better than Dave Johnson.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Tonight was terrible and it’s probably NIT here we come.

But get a grip and respect the program we’ll still win 8 or 9 ACC games and probably will hit 20 wins conference/NIT/NCAA included. Not go 0-18 or 20 in the league like BC did couple years ago.

I don't think we've even won 20 games in about 5 years, dude.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We don't have an ACC-level point guard. We haven't had a big guy who can score with his back to the basket since Christmas in 2015. And our offense is just five individual games of one-on-one basketball at all times, which is why our assist numbers are always so low.

Yeah, I think we do

We don't have an ACC-level point guard.
We haven't had a big guy who can score with his back to the basket since Christmas in 2015.

(1) Sure we do. Any of 3 of these guys would be adequate if we ran any sort of offense at all, and didn't just rely on 1 guy to be able to run an NBA pick-and-roll.

(By the way, even in the NBA, with NBA talent, you still need two guys to run the play. One guy can't do it by himself. Both guys have to be threats to score.)

(2) We haven't had a PG who fed the post in about 10 years. We don't appear to teach players any back-to-the-basket moves, and we don't recruit beefier guys who can catch a pass if we're going to run the pick-and-roll.

I've had it. Really. This is pathetic.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We lost to the defending champion who has consistently played the best defense in the country on the opening night of the season with only three players we knew we could trust coming into the season. Let’s step of the ledge and let the season play out a little makes us look the same way before we go too crazy.

Dude, please.
The other team had 4 new starters and this was their first game, too.
This was not the Detroit Bad Boys out there playing defense against us.
One team looked like it had been coached. The other did not.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't think we've even won 20 games in about 5 years, dude.

If you include postseason (which he was) weve won at least 20 games three of the last five.

Now the real question is if you consider that a substantial accomplishment in 2019. I do not.

 

[IthacaMatt]

When people stop spending their money it will. Season ticket holders for basketball should be thanked if they have stayed on board the last 5 years.
The product on the court is awful offensively.
They should be thanked. You think people should sit back and take it because JB has won a lot of games.

We are sitting on a timebomb. This is entertainment dollars not free. The HC doesn’t change but everyone complaining about is wrong:

They already have. Attendance has been trending down for several years. It's just a question of how low it will go before Buddy graduates.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sure.

But a couple of points. First that hasn't happened yet. And even if it does to a degree, we are far from the break-even point.

Second, is what to do about it. My operational theory is that SU will win fewer games under the next HC. My guess is Wildhack agrees. We are more likely to emulate St Johns and Georgetown than anyone else.

That's complete nonsense.

We have the Melo Center, which is still Top 10% in all college BB facilities.

We still have the Dome, and average attendance of over 20,000 - which is more than several NBA teams draw.

We play in the ACC, which is THE elite league in the NCAA for hoops.

If you think we are going to turn into St. John's when JB leaves, logic is not on your side.

 

[orangecuse]

Yeah Fred Lewis and Roy Danforth couldn't win here at all.

Syracuse is the 5th most winningest program (ahead of Temple if adding those 101 wins taken away back) in college basketball history. UK is #1, follow by KU, UNC & Duke. Yet, after JB, Syracuse will be nothing more than a has been program.

 

[jncuse]

Not sure if serious.

Not serious.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Do you think JW will stand for 3 more years of this?? I can't see that happening despite the legacy Coach Boeheim has left, heck I wouldn't want to end my career on this note.

I truly think JB would be happier sitting on the sideline drinking his Pepsi and letting someone else run the show esp if it was someone like Hop who came "home"

Wildhack ENABLED this. Don't you get that.
Wildhack COULD have backed MIKE.
He didn't.
This is what you get until Buddy graduates.
I pray for one more run, but I just don't see it.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That's complete nonsense.

We have the Melo Center, which is still Top 10% in all college BB facilities.

We still have the Dome, and average attendance of over 20,000 - which is more than several NBA teams draw.

We play in the ACC, which is THE elite league in the NCAA for hoops.

If you think we are going to turn into St. John's when JB leaves, logic is not on your side.

He's making a lot of assumptions based on an era when our conference was the ECAC, we played in Manley, and our primary rival was St Bonaventure.

 

[IthacaMatt]

"People can want better than that for their entertainment dollars."

So what's your plan?

Clearly this is making you very upset.

Probably staying home more, and finding other teams to watch on TV.

You know, like fans of the football program have done for the last 15-20 years.

 

[jncuse]

My take (and I didn't get watch the glorious game).

It could very well be really bad. But maybe it isn't. Wouldn't make all in judgments after a game against a team like Virginia.

 

[81South]

Last night was really bad...there’s no way to sugarcoat it. It’s one game but if things go south this year then I personally believe JW will start to feel immense pressure to make a change. Will he make a change? Very likely the answer is no but that doesn’t he mean he won’t feel the heat. In the mean time just do your best to root the boys on and pray for a chance to hang an ACC championship banner.

 

[Sherman20]

We scored 34 points in the entire game.
Made absolutely no changes to the offense and the fans complaining are the issue.
My god stop acting like the frustration is out of whack.
Our HC is a legend but look at what happened at the end of Bobby Bowden’s tenure, other legends. Jim Boeheim is not god.

An experienced team needs a more structured offense, and JB refuses to implement anything but his tired old schemes from a decade ago—when we even run any sets at all. It’s all, just go out there and make plays and knock down shots. But we don’t have the skilled, superstar athletes to do that this year. And you have to put the players in the position to succeed. JB watches so much basketball. Doesn’t he see what other teams, pro and college, are doing? It’s mind-boggling. I watched Purdue run beautiful, fairly complex, well-executed sets for Carson Edwards during last season’s tourney run. Same with teams like Auburn, Gonzaga, Nova, UVA, etc. But hardly anything at all was being done to get Elijah open last night. JB is obsessed with keeping things simple, to his detriment imo. Boozer and Etan (on twitter) have both pointed out the lack of hard screening and motion from any of our players.

 

[IthacaMatt]

2015-16: 23-14
2017-18: 23-14
2018-19: 20-14

We haven't won 20 regular season games in the last 5 years.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We haven't won 20 regular season games in the last 5 years.

Frankie's words were "20 wins conference/NIT/NCAA included."

But yes, we haven't won 20 regular season games (post season excluded) in a few years.