Program Reset...

[IthacaMatt]

We are still feeling the hit from the 2014 penalties. Give it another 5 years.

I'm guessing this is sarcastic. Because the last time we went on probation, less than 5 years later we played in the national championship game.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If you include postseason (which he was) weve won at least 20 games three of the last five.

Now the real question is if you consider that a substantial accomplishment in 2019. I do not.

When people used to say "JB wins 20 games every year", they didn't have to count post season games to hit that number.

 

[Scooch]

Sure.

But a couple of points. First that hasn't happened yet. And even if it does to a degree, we are far from the break-even point.

Second, is what to do about it. My operational theory is that SU will win fewer games under the next HC. My guess is Wildhack agrees. We are more likely to emulate St Johns and Georgetown than anyone else.

I'm not advocating for JB's removal, and anyone with a brain knows that there is tremendous downside risk when he's gone. At the same time, no business succeeds when it takes its customers for granted, and when it becomes complacent about the quality and urgency of it's product. And we all know that SU hoops is a business. A big one.

 

[NineOneSeven]

People have their heads buried deep in the sand if they don’t think this is officially a trend (and has been), and a bad one at that. Nobody who legitimately understands or has played basketball can disagree about whatever our “offense” is. It’s clear as day. The fact some people still make excuses for it is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Sherman20]

Nice try, Upstate. But essentially a fool's errand.

You'll not convince or even slow down the onslaught of the self-styled experts.

Um, pot, you’re black. You’re just as much of a self styled expert as anybody on here. You constantly repeat this same tired old line about how we’re all idiots compared to JB. Talk to any D1 coach or CBB person, including people JB is friends with. Cuse’s offense is abysmally stale and JB hasn’t adjusted in years. It’s not some hidden secret in the CBB world. As another poster pointed out on the board last season, we’re running the same tired old offensive sets we ran a decade ago. And half the time, the players just stand around. There’s talent on this roster but it’s inexperienced and that’s part of the problem. But when you’re inexperienced, the team needs to have more structure. That said, this was the first game of the year against a juggernaut defense, so improvement should happen and hope springs eternal.

 

[4evaOrange]

the saddest part to me is watching Boeheim yell at players as they come off the court

I think it was buddy or marek threw that wild passin the second half I believe and it sailed into the stands and he just smiled and laughed. If they was a freshman or anyone else they would’ve been yanked and yelled at.
That stuck out to me.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think it was buddy or marek threw that wild passin the second half I believe and it sailed into the stands and he just smiled and laughed. If they was a freshman or anyone else they would’ve been yanked and yelled at.
That stuck out to me.

Marek tried throwing it to Buddy in the corner. Randy Moss wouldn’t have caught it if he was 15 feet tall.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Kihei Clark- ranked 350-370 depending on outlet. Outplayed every single player on our team

Welp, i guess that kicks into paragraph 2 of my post...
Bennett has only had, what, one or two top 25 kids? He does that routinely—yet it's our fans who think it's JB who creates 'gems.'

 

[FloridaFan]

So it seems everyone has different takes on what happened with Hopkins and some seem to blame BHeim for not wanting to leave. Is that the truth or is there more too it?

 

[HakAttack]

Welp, i guess that kicks into paragraph 2 of my post...
Bennett has only had, what, one or two top 25 kids? He does that routinely—yet it's our fans who think it's JB who creates 'gems.'

That's because he's become a "system" coach, much like Jay Wright. Those guys have been hugely successful over the last half decade or so because they've found a system that works and are able to recruit guys for it.

Something that we absolutely ARE NOT doing, despite how Boeheim might feel that he's still recruiting for "his" system. Well his system isn't working.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So it seems everyone has different takes on what happened with Hopkins and some seem to blame BHeim for not wanting to leave. Is that the truth or is there more too it?

You can't blame Boeheim for not wanting to leave. He felt he was being railroaded and made the scapegoat by the NCAA and by his own AD, the one who up and left for Minnesota.

So when the ESPN guy comes in, Boeheim let's him know he feels he's been dealt a raw deal (which no argument, he had), and Mike sees that either he can kick up a fuss to get rid of the legend who gave him his start, or he could quietly begin looking for another job.

Mike did the classy thing and went to build his own legacy instead of continuing ours. Mike still refuses to throw Boeheim under the bus for anything, or even snidely hint that JB didn't want to leave, and how long Mike had already served as the "HC in waiting".

 

[Sherman20]

O

Sure.

But a couple of points. First that hasn't happened yet. And even if it does to a degree, we are far from the break-even point.

Second, is what to do about it. My operational theory is that SU will win fewer games under the next HC. My guess is Wildhack agrees. We are more likely to emulate St Johns and Georgetown than anyone else.

Oh here we go with this again, your operational theory. Other programs of our actual stature, history, resources, and revenue generation, like Louisville, have reloaded every time. Crum got old and stale, they went and got Pitino, who won a title and made FFs. Pitino got in hot water and was fired, and they went out and got Chris Mack, who will have them competing for ACC title in his second year. Heck, even Xavier has reloaded in the head coaching department time after time after time. That’s because it’s a very good CBB PROGRAM with a built in fan base and foundation. Just like Syracuse. yes, JB helped take the program to great heights but even he admits he had advantages to get there, including the Big East, the upstate fan base and the Dome revenue. And get outa here with your St John’s comparisons. They aren’t in our league resources wise or in terms of historical success. Any CBB expert with a clue can tell you St John’s had a nice run because Louie had been there forever and had ties all over the city, NYC kids stayed home instead of going to prep school elsewhere (like they do now), and the 80s Big East took off like a rocketship. But most importantly, St John’s had one huge built in advantage in recruiting. Kids got a housing stipend to live off campus (because there were few dorms) and they pocketed a good chunk of that money and lived off campus for cheap with other players. SJU built dorms, that money dried up and so did that advantage.

RISE AND FALL OF ST. JOHN’S

In the height of the glory years, four St. John’s students had purchased a season ticket for $33 each when the opportunity of their young lives presented itself on the night of Feb. 27, 1985.…

nypost.com

 

[OrangeXtreme]

So it seems everyone has different takes on what happened with Hopkins and some seem to blame BHeim for not wanting to leave. Is that the truth or is there more too it?

Hop's father is sick, and Hop wanted to move back to the west coast to be closer to him. If Georgetown had beaten FGCU in 2013, Hop would be coaching at USC right now.

 

[Eric15]

Mike did the classy thing and went to build his own legacy instead of continuing ours. Mike still refuses to throw Boeheim under the bus for anything, or even snidely hint that JB didn't want to leave, and how long Mike had already served as the "HC in waiting".

Mike is a great guy and a solid coach and I wish we had just followed the original succession plan as it was laid out.

 

[phil77]

I think it was buddy or marek threw that wild passin the second half I believe and it sailed into the stands and he just smiled and laughed. If they was a freshman or anyone else they would’ve been yanked and yelled at.
That stuck out to me.

This is happening far too often in the last two years.

 

[Sherman20]

So it seems everyone has different takes on what happened with Hopkins and some seem to blame BHeim for not wanting to leave. Is that the truth or is there more too it?

JB didn’t want to retire. It became obvious to Hop in that last year, and he didn’t want to force out his mentor, the man that gave him his career. So when the UW job opened up and the AD there put the full court press on him, to Hop it seemed like a perfect situation for everybody.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Mike is a great guy and a solid coach and I wish we had just followed the original succession plan as it was laid out.

People are insane to disagree. I am happy Hopkins is in a good spot at Washington but this situation we are now in has a better chance of turning out negative long term than positive.

 

[hoopsupstate]

This is happening far too often in the last two years.

That pass came from Marek.

 

[Sherman20]

You can't blame Boeheim for not wanting to leave. He felt he was being railroaded and made the scapegoat by the NCAA and by his own AD, the one who up and left for Minnesota.

So when the ESPN guy comes in, Boeheim let's him know he feels he's been dealt a raw deal (which no argument, he had), and Mike sees that either he can kick up a fuss to get rid of the legend who gave him his start, or he could quietly begin looking for another job.

Mike did the classy thing and went to build his own legacy instead of continuing ours. Mike still refuses to throw Boeheim under the bus for anything, or even snidely hint that JB didn't want to leave, and how long Mike had already served as the "HC in waiting".

Fact checking, yo! Mark Coyle was NOT the AD when JB’s retirement timeline was set. Daryl Gross was—he’d just been demoted in the wake of the sanctions. Syverud, the chancellor, forced JB to set a retirement timeline, along with demoting/ousting Daryl. It was a public relations strategy to show the NCAA that action was being taken and changes were coming. Coyle wasn’t hired until months later, I believe that following summer, after Hop had worked out his deal with Syverud.

 

[phil77]

That pass came from Marek.

Yup I know but turnovers for some and ugly shots for some aren't treated the same as others.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Fact checking, yo! Mark Coyle was NOT the AD when JB’s retirement timeline was set. Daryl Gross was—he’d just been demoted in the wake of the sanctions. Syverud, the chancellor, forced JB to set a retirement timeline, along with demoting/ousting Daryl. It was a public relations strategy to show the NCAA that action was being taken and changes were coming. Coyle wasn’t hired until months later, I believe that following summer, after Hop had worked out his deal with Syverud.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Not serious.

Good because if you said otherwise you would've been accepted as the second charter member of the Townie Fan Club.

 

[Orangezoo]

Welp, i guess that kicks into paragraph 2 of my post...
Bennett has only had, what, one or two top 25 kids? He does that routinely—yet it's our fans who think it's JB who creates 'gems.'

Who is the last player who truly maxed out his development here? Gbinije?

 

[jncuse]

Good because if you said otherwise you would've been accepted as the second charter member of the Townie Fan Club.

It's a narrative that bothered me for a while. Did it hurt us a bit. Sure. But some attribute every recruiting error to it.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Who is the last player who truly maxed out his development here? Gbinije?

I don’t know but it sure feels like we’ve had more guys either not improve or actually regress in the last five years than the prior 15 years I was a fan.