PS: Syracuse basketball recruit Tyler Roberson: Time ticks down to a qualifying deadline

[edowd26]

I know, I worked for the NCAA. That whole stupid Clearinghouse is VERY familiar to me - it was just about a half-decade ago now though.

They just change stuff, and some of it I forget. It's all ridiculous though.

Do you hate you some former you?

 

[Ghost]

Do you hate you some former you?

lol...a little bit.

I drink a lot to numb the pain. A LOT.

 

[tee1222]

Do you hate you some former you?

4K likes. And you knife fought your way through every one of them.

 

[rrlbees]

I know, I worked for the NCAA. That whole stupid Clearinghouse is VERY familiar to me - it was just about a half-decade ago now though.

They just change stuff, and some of it I forget. It's all ridiculous though.

It's gonna get a whole lot stricter in 3 years. Minimum 2.3 and minimum number of core courses taken before senior year.


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[edowd26]

lol...a little bit.

I drink a lot to numb the pain. A LOT.

we all have our skeletons

 

[Ghost]

Yes, it is just math. There might be a qualitative assessment of whether or not courses meet baseline requirements. Whether they do or do not, then it shifts into a quantitative assessment of whether minimum threshold requirements are met.

Which is why, after the qualitative assessment is performed, the assessment boils down to little more than a checklist of basic quantitative criteria. And why this should be a pretty straight forward analysis of whether Roberson is eligible or not on the part of the NCAA clearinghouse.

Not saying that the qualitative review of his coursework isn't needed. But once assessed, his transcript either qualifies because it meets or exceeds requirements, or it doesn't.

That determination is nothing more than a mathematical checklist.

Pretty much true. Most students get right through w/out issue. The assessment of coursework is the problem a lot of the time. Something as simple as a name-change (even a basic one) on a course can sometimes throw them into a tizzy. Again, it could be them waiting on documentation from the schools themselves. They request it, but they're not going to go on a mission just for TR's sake to get a random HS to send a syllabus/course description on a course that may be duplicative with one he took at the school he transferred to.

Example: English 12 becoming English 4A - the A is probably just a grouping, but once that's on there they're going to want documentation as to what English 4A is since the only approved course was English 12. It's OBVIOUS to most they're the same class, but what's that 'A' there for? It's a pain and it slows it all down.

Now, the odds that an athlete like TR isn't having all this done w/ SU assisting is probably slim. Which is why it's probably a waiver.

Otherwise, I'm quite sure SU and TR would have a pretty good idea he's not qualifying.

The only other thing that stops the process dead is a flagged test score. NCAA has nothing to do with that. They just have to wait.

 

[edowd26]

4K likes. And you knife fought your way through every one of them.

i've been practicing

 

[tee1222]

i've been practicing

En SAP solamente.
Still. I got the grey one. He seems to have been battle tested already.

 

[rrlbees]

Yes, it is just math. There might be a qualitative assessment of whether or not courses meet baseline requirements. Whether they do or do not, then it shifts into a quantitative assessment of whether minimum threshold requirements are met.

Which is why, after the qualitative assessment is performed, the assessment boils down to little more than a checklist of basic quantitative criteria. And why this should be a pretty straight forward analysis of whether Roberson's transcript is eligible or not on the part of the NCAA clearinghouse.

Not saying that the qualitative review of his coursework isn't needed. But once assessed, his transcript either qualifies because it meets or exceeds requirements, or it doesn't.

That determination is nothing more than a mathematical checklist.

That's an awful lot of qualitative and checklist stuff for being only math.


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[RF2044]

That's an awful lot of qualitative and checklist stuff for being only math.

No its not. Checklist stuff is inherently math.

Let's not pretend that the qualitative assessments that are needed don't change that it all boils down to whether or not minimum thresholds have been met of not. His coursework either fulfills the requirements or they don't. Period.

 

[edowd26]

That's an awful lot of qualitative and checklist stuff for being only math.


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math is pretty complex

 

[edowd26]

En SAP solamente.
Still. I got the grey one. He seems to have been battle tested already.

you learned that from watching congo

 

[Ghost]

No its not. Checklist stuff is inherently math.

And the qualitative assessments that are needed don't change that it all boils down to whether or not minimum thresholds have been met of not.

Well, in it's simplest form (and most likely) the courses he has on his multiple transcripts that have been evaluated using the approved course list the NCAA has for those schools was not enough to get him in w/ whatever his test scores are.

The question now is why? Just flat out missed and needs a waiver? Trying to get some course approved for one of the schools that wasn't before? Etc...

 

[rrlbees]

No its not. Checklist stuff is inherently math.

Let's not pretend that the qualitative assessments that are needed don't change that it all boils down to whether or not minimum thresholds have been met of not. His coursework either fulfills the requirements or they don't. Period.

Thinking it is just math is probably why his coach thought everything was good. I'll bet 98% of the assessment of his eligibility was spent on things not related to the math.


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[RF2044]

Well, in it's simplest form (and most likely) the courses he has on his multiple transcripts that have been evaluated using the approved course list the NCAA has for those schools was not enough to get him in w/ whatever his test scores are.

The question now is why? Just flat out missed and needs a waiver? Trying to get some course approved for one of the schools that wasn't before? Etc...

Let's assume that's true. A "denied" disposition is different than him clicking on the website day after day without a determination being handed down.

I'm not discounting that there aren't appeals / waivers at the student athlete's disposal. But the evaluation should still be a straight forward assessment. Were the requirements met, or not? There's the answer.

 

[RF2044]

Thinking it is just math is probably why his coach thought everything was good. I'll bet 98% of the assessment of his eligibility was spent on things not related to the math.

That is literally one of the dopiest things I have ever read on this forum.

Eligibility has to be an quantifiable with measurable evaluative criteria. Otherwise, what's the point of having a system of requirements? He either met minimum requirements or he didn't.

No matter how you rationalize it, it is unacceptable that the qualitative assessment of his course work has lingered beyond the start of the generally accepted academic calendar. It is the antithesis of having the best interests of student athletes in mind.

 

[Ghost]

Let's assume that's true. A "denied" disposition is different than him clicking on the website day after day without a determination being handed down.

I'm not discounting that there aren't appeals / waivers at the student athlete's disposal. But the evaluation should still be a straight forward assessment. Were the requirements met, or not? There's the answer.

Fair point - but if it's not showing, it means the evaluation was never completed or never released. They can (could) hold the status back even after the final evaluation. For example, Employee 1 denies a student (he/she would leave it on hold - results not viewable) while Employee 2 reviews the evaluation since the student was not cleared.

They could leave a hold on it even while knowing he wasn't cleared. So no matter how often he clicks it's not coming up even though the status is known in-house (and by the school if they were so inclined to check). Nobody at NCAA is telling the kid though - they do not drive the waiver process.

He could be clicking because he knows a waiver is in play? No idea - just speculating.

 

[Ghost]

That is literally one of the dopiest things I have ever read on this forum.

Eligibility has to be an quantifiable with measurable evaluative criteria. Otherwise, what's the point of having a system of requirements? He either met minimum requirements or he didn't.

No matter how you rationalize it, it is unacceptable that the qualitative assessment of his course work has lingered beyond the start of the semester. It is the antithesis of having the best interests of student athletes in mind.

It shouldn't take this long. However, no idea why it's held up in the first place obviously.

 

[RF2044]

Fair point - but if it's not showing, it means the evaluation was never completed or never released. They can (could) hold the status back even after the final evaluation. For example, Employee 1 denies a student (he/she would leave it on hold - results not viewable) while Employee 2 reviews the evaluation since the student was not cleared.

They could leave a hold on it even while knowing he wasn't cleared. So no matter how often he clicks it's not coming up even though the status is known in-house (and by the school if they were so inclined to check). Nobody at NCAA is telling the kid though - they do not drive the waiver process.

He could be clicking because he knows a waiver is in play? No idea - just speculating.

Ghost, obviously you know what you're talking about from an experiential perspective.

I'm not suggesting that the description you provided isn't 100% realistic. But just imagine how screwed up it would be to have a student athlete who is legitimately eligible have his eligibility compromised because the NCAA clearinghouse doesn't get around to reviewing the situation.

I can't believe that this would be acceptable under any circumstances.

 

[rrlbees]

That is literally one of the dopiest things I have ever read on this forum.

Eligibility has to be an quantifiable with measurable evaluative criteria. Otherwise, what's the point of having a system of requirements? He either met minimum requirements or he didn't.

No matter how you rationalize it, it is unacceptable that the qualitative assessment of his course work has lingered beyond the start of the generally accepted academic calendar. It is the antithesis of having the best interests of student athletes in mind.

I guess it's dopey that I helped student athletes through the process for 10 years (though it has changed greatly). You started by saying it was math. That's the sliding scale which is easy. The hard pard is the qualitative part of the courses taken and if they satisfy core requirements. If that's dopey then I don't know what to tell you.


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[rrlbees]

I'm not suggesting that the description you provided isn't 100% realistic. But just imagine how screwed up it would be to have a student athlete who is legitimately eligible have his eligibility compromised because the NCAA clearinghouse doesn't get around to reviewing the situation.

I asked this 2 other times with no response. Can you, or anyone, name one athlete who really was eligible and satisfied all the requirements in a timely manner yet was not eligible because the NCAA let the clock run out? JB would be screaming from the mountain tops.



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[RF2044]

I asked this 2 other times with no response. Can you, or anyone, name one athlete who really was eligible and satisfied all the requirements in a timely manner yet was not eligible because the NCAA let the clock run out? JB would be screaming from the mountain tops.

No--I can't name another example. Which makes why Roberson is clicking on the NCAA site but getting no answers is puzzling, especially given that the standard academic collegiate calendar has started.

Your point emphasizes why this is absurd. He's either quantifiably eligible based upon the mathematical criteria that the NCAA has established or he is not.

 

[RF2044]

I guess it's dopey that I helped student athletes through the process for 10 years (though it has changed greatly). You started by saying it was math. That's the sliding scale which is easy. The hard pard is the qualitative part of the courses taken and if they satisfy core requirements. If that's dopey then I don't know what to tell you.

It is especially dopey when you consider that this all boils down to a checklist. Have requirements been met--yes / no? Check.

Yes, some transcripts require a qualitative assessment. But even that ultimately boils down to whether check list items ultimately are fulfilled -- 'yay' or 'nay.'

Which means at the end of the day, it all boils down to mathematical formula. You either meet the requirements set forth by the NCAA or you don't. Whether or not some transcripts require some evaluation doesn't change that the net result boils down to the math.

 

[rrlbees]

It is especially dopey when you consider that this all boils down to a checklist. Have requirements been met--yes / no? Check.

Yes, some transcripts require a qualitative assessment. But even that ultimately boils down to whether check list items ultimately are fulfilled -- 'yay' or 'nay.'

Which means at the end of the day, it all boils down to mathematical formula. You either meet the requirements set forth by the NCAA or you don't. Whether or not some transcripts require some evaluation doesn't change that the net result boils down to the math.

Now you say it is a checklist. You originally said it wasn't. You're getting there. Now you just have to buy into the qualitative part.


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[rrlbees]

No--I can't name another example. Which makes why Roberson is clicking on the NCAA site but getting no answers is puzzling, especially given that the standard academic collegiate calendar has started.

Your point emphasizes why this is absurd. He's either quantifiably eligible based upon the mathematical criteria that the NCAA has established or he is not.

He is if the qualitative assessment of the courses and grades are acceptable. Then it becomes quantitative. Kids that have to make up courses or retake them get greater scrutiny if a course or grade is questioned. The more courses the more difficult.


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