Class of 2023 QB Marcus Stokes (FL) Portal to Memphis

[orangepassion]

Using Kyler Murray to justify a 5'11", 180‑pound QB at the P4 level is nonsense. Kyler was a generational freak. An outlier of outliers. A 5 star rocket with elite arm talent and absurd quickness. Pointing to him is like pointing to Steph Curry and claiming every undersized guard can be MVP.

I get the Miami Northwestern connection. I get the Calvin Russell angle. It would be a cool story. But you can’t build a roster on nostalgia or emotion. The truth is simple: sub‑6'1" QBs only survive at this level if they’re built like tanks or possess undeniable, elite traits.

Kyler was 205+, lightning fast and had a cannon. Dickens is 5'11", 180 and doesn’t bring those superpowers.

He's not the only one. Another one is Johnny Manziel. I'm sure there are others.

 

[PhatOrange]

Half the board was harping on Luke Carney's size as a negative. Now 5-11 180 is OK. people are funny

 

[GoSU96]

That’s your rebuttal? Johnny Manziel? That’s not an argument that’s just naming the first short QB your brain could think of. And just like Kyler, Manziel was another total outlier with elite improvisation and rare athletic juice. He didn’t succeed because height “doesn’t matter.” He succeeded because he was a backyard football glitch, and he collapsed in the NFL the moment he wasn’t the best athlete on the field.

And since we’re tossing names around I’ll add Russell Wilson, a ridiculous dual sport athlete drafted by MLB (just like Kyler). Again, a unicorn not a template.

We can keep going:
Drew Brees - Hall of Fame processor, elite accuracy, generational outlier.
Doug Flutie - literal lightning in a bottle, one in a million play style.
Bryce Young - elite processor, elite poise and still struggling at the next level because size does matter.

Notice the pattern? Every “short QB success story” is either a Hall of Fame brain, a world‑class athlete or a once in a generation talent. None of them were 5'11", 180 with average traits.

You still haven’t addressed the actual point. These guys aren’t examples of what short QBs can be, they’re examples of what short QBs almost never are.

Troy Nunes?

 

[orangepassion]

That’s your rebuttal? Johnny Manziel? That’s not an argument that’s just naming the first short QB your brain could think of. And just like Kyler, Manziel was another total outlier with elite improvisation and rare athletic juice. He didn’t succeed because height “doesn’t matter.” He succeeded because he was a backyard football glitch, and he collapsed in the NFL the moment he wasn’t the best athlete on the field.

And since we’re tossing names around I’ll add Russell Wilson, a ridiculous dual sport athlete drafted by MLB (just like Kyler). Again, a unicorn not a template.

We can keep going:
Drew Brees - Hall of Fame processor, elite accuracy, generational outlier.
Doug Flutie - literal lightning in a bottle, one in a million play style.
Bryce Young - elite processor, elite poise and still struggling at the next level because size does matter.

Notice the pattern? Every “short QB success story” is either a Hall of Fame brain, a world‑class athlete or a once in a generation talent. None of them were 5'11", 180 with average traits.

You still haven’t addressed the actual point. These guys aren’t examples of what short QBs can be, they’re examples of what short QBs almost never are.

Thanks for bringing more examples. This guy threw for 38 TD's and 2 Int's-How do you know he's not another exception?

 

[Blanko97]

That’s your rebuttal? Johnny Manziel? That’s not an argument that’s just naming the first short QB your brain could think of. And just like Kyler, Manziel was another total outlier with elite improvisation and rare athletic juice. He didn’t succeed because height “doesn’t matter.” He succeeded because he was a backyard football glitch, and he collapsed in the NFL the moment he wasn’t the best athlete on the field.

And since we’re tossing names around I’ll add Russell Wilson, a ridiculous dual sport athlete drafted by MLB (just like Kyler). Again, a unicorn not a template.

We can keep going:
Drew Brees - Hall of Fame processor, elite accuracy, generational outlier.
Doug Flutie - literal lightning in a bottle, one in a million play style.
Bryce Young - elite processor, elite poise and still struggling at the next level because size does matter.

Notice the pattern? Every “short QB success story” is either a Hall of Fame brain, a world‑class athlete or a once in a generation talent. None of them were 5'11", 180 with average traits.

You still haven’t addressed the actual point. These guys aren’t examples of what short QBs can be, they’re examples of what short QBs almost never are.

Good thing we don’t need a hall of famer, just a backup. Not sure why everyone is freaking out about height. It’s not nearly as important in college as it in the pros.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Half the board was harping on Luke Carney's size as a negative. Now 5-11 180 is OK. people are funny

Exactly.

If we decide to bring a guy in that can be considered undersized, we don't have to hear anything about that. Staff made a choice.

 

[Ttk.gman2]

 

[djorange1989]

Let’s make sure he cancels that Memphis visit

 

[Blanko97]

Because that’s the entire point of the word “exception.” You don’t build expectations, projections or roster decisions around the one in a million outcomes. That’s like saying, “How do you know my lottery ticket isn’t the winner?” Technically possible. Functionally delusional.

And citing 38 TDs and 2 INTs like it’s some magic shield? Cool stat line, against inferior competition with zero evidence he can replicate any of it against bigger, faster, stronger athletes. Production without context is just a box score fantasy.

Then, “We don’t need a Hall of Famer, just a backup.”
Great, then why are you using Hall of Fame‑level outliers to justify him?

You can’t have it both ways.
You can’t say height doesn’t matter because Brees, Wilson, Kyler, Flutie, Manziel existed… and then turn around and say, “Relax, we only need a backup.” Those guys weren’t backups. They were generational anomalies who succeeded because they had elite traits that overcame their size.

Your examples prove my point, not yours.

And the “height doesn’t matter in college” line? Come on.
If height didn’t matter, coaches wouldn’t obsess over release points, passing lanes, batted balls, and visibility over the line. If it didn’t matter, every roster would be full of 5'11" QBs. It matters less than the NFL, sure, but it still matters. Especially when the guy in question isn’t bringing elite traits to offset it.

You’re arguing from hope.
I’m arguing from probability.

And the probability that a 5'11", 180‑pound QB with average traits becomes the next Brees/Wilson/Kyler/Flutie is the same probability that a scratch‑off ticket pays your mortgage.

I didn’t say it doesn’t matter I said it’s not as important… and talent does exist beyond height. Every guy who is 6’3” isn’t a great QB every guy who is 5’11” isnt destined to be too short to ever play. Thats why you see what they do on the field.

 

[SUFan44]

Nunes is 6’1”.

In high heels maybe.

 

[Blanko97]

You’re still dodging the argument. Nobody said height is everything. The point is that when you’re undersized you need elite traits to offset it. Not solid. Not pretty good. Elite.

Saying “talent exists beyond height” is obvious. The issue is that 5'11", 180lb. QBs only succeed when they have something special. Elite processing, elite athleticism, elite accuracy. The short list of short QBs prove how rare that is.

And “that’s why you see what they do on the field”?
Exactly. What he’s shown is fine, against FCS competition, not franchise‑altering. Nothing that overcomes the size limitations that absolutely do show up in P4 football: passing lanes, visibility, durability, velocity windows.

You’re arguing from possibility.
I’m arguing from probability.

Sure he could be an exception.
But exceptions aren’t the baseline they’re the miracle outcome.

I disagree you need elite. it’s college ball. And yeah probability is low, but probability with evidence he’s doing well is enough to buck the the 1% chance he’s successful. He’s not a raw athlete who never played football before…

 

[CuseMan4]

Nunes is 6’1”.

Normally I’m 5’11, 170. But when I wear my cowboy boots, I’m 6’5, 225. So I get it

 

[Blanko97]

You keep acting like “it’s college ball” means size suddenly stops mattering. It doesn’t. If you’re undersized you need something elite to offset it. Processing, arm talent, athleticism, something. That’s true at every level.

And your “probability with evidence he’s doing well” point ignores context. He’s doing well against the exact level of competition he was recruited for. That’s not proof he’ll beat the odds. That’s proof evaluators pegged him correctly.

And those evaluators weren’t guessing. He played at Miami Northwestern, one of the most heavily scouted high school programs in the entire country. If you can play, every major coach in America knows instantly.

Yet his offer list was: Buffalo, Bowling Green, Akron, FAU, Jackson State, McNeese State.

You’re telling me Kirby Smart, Mario Cristobal, Mike Norvell, Billy Napier, all who recruit South Florida nonstop just missed on a hidden gem? Or is it more likely they saw exactly what he was. A solid player with limited upside.

Who is saying he’s a gem? Every year there are guys who are at G5s who go to the P4 level and compete, how did they get missed? Coaches aren’t always good at evaluating talent. Tate Martell was an all star in highschool and he sucked, Joey Agilar was at ap state and did pretty well in the SEC. The coaches all seemed to miss on both those guys in opposite directions.

Like yeah, players are missed all the time.

 

[CA Monk]

In high heels maybe.

J Edgar Hoover was 6'1"in high heels.
I mean from what I've heard.

 

[dan7800]

Nunes is 6’1”.

Maybe with his magician shoes.

 

[721Comstock]

Normally I’m 5’11, 170. But when I wear my cowboy boots, I’m 6’5, 225. So I get it

I think that also may be from tequila.

 

[Blanko97]

Tate Martell actually helps my argument. He was an undersized QB at Bishop Gorman, like Miami Northwestern one of the most famous high‑school programs in the country. He had every eye in America on him, he was overhyped and guess what? He was a bust. Exactly like undersized QBs with average traits usually turn out. That’s not coaches miss all the time. That’s the rule playing out in real time.

Joey Aguilar? He’s 6'3", 220 with a legit arm. He’s not an example of an undersized QB succeeding, he’s an example of a big QB transferring up and holding his own. Completely different category. Using him to defend a 5'11", 180 pounder makes zero sense.

And here’s the part you keep dodging: Dickens wasn’t missed. He played at Miami Northwestern, one of the most heavily scouted high‑school programs in the entire country. If you can play, every major coach in America knows your name by sophomore year. That school is a recruiting airport terminal with coaches constantly coming and going.

Yet his offers were: Buffalo, Bowling Green, Akron, FAU, Jackson State, McNeese State, Western Carolina

That’s not players get missed. That’s Kirby Smart, Mario Cristobal, Billy Napier, Mike Norvell, and every other P4 coach recruiting South Florida looking at him and saying, “Good kid, limited ceiling.”

You’re arguing from the tiny handful of outliers. I’m pointing at the entire evaluation ecosystem. Yes players slip through cracks. But when a QB from a national powerhouse with maximum exposure pulls zero P4 offers it’s not because everyone whiffed. It’s because they all saw exactly what he is, solid, not special and not the kind of undersized QB you bet on.

you’re passionately arguing that results don’t matter, I’m arguing they do. You say he has bad competition, I’m saying he has bad people around him and succeeding against that competition when 80% of the other players don’t means he has the skillset to successful at the next level above it.I truly don’t even know what you’re arguing anymore because before it was short people can’t be good, I said they can be but it’s not guaranteed, then it was the P5 staffs would’ve been on him and if he was but they don’t always pick the best players and miss on scouts, now you’re recognizing people slip through the cracks but a guy who had success at that power program in high school but got passed on can’t be good means he will never good is silly. He’s had success and now we will see if he has success at the next level.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

To sum up this thread

 

[qdawgg]

J Edgar Hoover was 6'1"in high heels.
I mean from what I've heard.

Donald Trump can palm a basketball wearing OJ’s gloves.

 

[qdawgg]

Who invited Saint Tristan’s keyboard warrior cousin with a smaller vocabulary onto the board?

 

[SuFTW]

You’re still dodging the argument. Nobody said height is everything. The point is that when you’re undersized you need elite traits to offset it. Not solid. Not pretty good. Elite.

Saying “talent exists beyond height” is obvious. The issue is that 5'11", 180lb. QBs only succeed when they have something special. Elite processing, elite athleticism, elite accuracy. The short list of short QBs prove how rare that is.

And “that’s why you see what they do on the field”?
Exactly. What he’s shown is fine, against FCS competition, not franchise‑altering. Nothing that overcomes the size limitations that absolutely do show up in P4 football: passing lanes, visibility, durability, velocity windows.

You’re arguing from possibility.
I’m arguing from probability.

Sure he could be an exception.
But exceptions aren’t the baseline they’re the miracle outcome.

Way to play the hyperbole game with “miracle outcome”.

 

[Offthedome]

Horse. Dead. Beaten.

 

[PAcuse]

 

[llandz]

Let’s make sure he cancels that Memphis visit

And moves right into SU housing. Question. I assume the players will be home and not on campus. Does Fran have a group of them come back for this visit?

 

[llandz]

Is this a thread about Stokes or short people? I could have sworn the heading said Stokes. And he isn't even the short person that led to this off the rails conversation.