Quincy Guerrier to test the NBA and enter the portal

[Cheriehoop]

We’ve had a number of forwards over the years help break pressure. There’s a very good reason for that if you have a forward that can handle. And it doesn’t matter who the PG is. Marek helped break pressure when K was in. Coleman helped break pressure when we had Sherm.

Yup, John Wallace, Wes Johnson etc too.

 

[Alsacs]

Alan wasn’t a great ball handler but much better than Q handling outside.

And you still haven’t answered about the difference between how Q and Alan played the game in our offense. Who are the guys up top and on the wings? The 1,2,3. And yes, if the 4 can shoot from the 3 also, like Lydon, they will pop outside some. But that doesn’t make them the 3.

Q would try to post occasionally, he would also get the ball on the perimeter.
I don’t think our guards are good at feeding the forwards.
We have become so iso dominated that if we don’t have penetration then offense becomes iso and chuck up shots.

 

[rrlbees]

Yup, John Wallace, Wes Johnson etc too.

Hughes, Billy O, even Todd Burgan (who drove me nuts). I’m sure there’s others over the 45 years we just aren’t thinking off.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Hughes, Billy O, even Todd Burgan (who drove me nuts). I’m sure there’s others over the 45 years we just aren’t thinking off.

Lydon, Melo, Battle

 

[malpearl31]

Lydon, Melo, Battle

Anytime you have a forward with some ball-handling skills, it’s a pretty good strategy to allow that guy to help break pressure (particularly full-court man pressure). I’d expect Benny to help us a bit with this as well, pretty sure he was primarily a ball-handling guard before his growth spurt.

Also not understanding why anyone would have an issue with this strategy whatsoever...

 

[Alsacs]

Anytime you have a forward with some ball-handling skills, it’s a pretty good strategy to allow that guy to help break pressure (particularly full-court man pressure). I’d expect Benny to help us a bit with this as well, pretty sure he was primarily a ball-handling guard before his growth spurt.

Also not understanding why anyone would have an issue with this strategy whatsoever...

Who is? We need a ball handler because our PG struggles with ball pressure.
Of course we need a to help hopefully Benny can.
Ball handling is a huge weakness on this team which why the point is even being made.
We need a forward who can do what Marek HAD to do.

 

[rrlbees]

Anytime you have a forward with some ball-handling skills, it’s a pretty good strategy to allow that guy to help break pressure (particularly full-court man pressure). I’d expect Benny to help us a bit with this as well, pretty sure he was primarily a ball-handling guard before his growth spurt.

Also not understanding why anyone would have an issue with this strategy whatsoever...

they have an issue because they don’t understand why we do it even sometimes with K in or Sherm or MCW, etc.

 

[rrlbees]

SU’s basic initial offensive set that we run numerous plays out of.

SU’s high ball screen that we all love. The 4 and 5 can switch depending on the player and their capabilities.

Part of SU’s motion offense

 

[samspann1]

And if Girard plays like he did in the tournament that will be good enough. That is what we need. I know people give him crap for the end of the WVU game, but he played well in the tournament looking at the entire picture. And he was not the only reason we couldn’t get the ball past half court. If Marek didn’t throw it 15 feet behind him when we were up 8 the game would have been over.

That depends...are you expecting Buddy to average > 25 ppg and shoot over 50% next season, as he did against SDSU and WVU? If so, then yes, maybe we can make do with Girard playing next season as he did in the tourney. Personally, I don't think that expecting that kind of output from BB next season is realistic (note: I am not criticizing BB, just saying that that type of production is insane).

IMO, the lack of dribble penetration will be problematic.

 

[jgeorge322]

IMO, Jim Boeheim Sr. is a significant part of why Quincy Guerrier will not be back. And a significant reason this program is the model of mediocrity. Sample size of regular seasons in the ACC is big enough to see this, as is the number of Top 25 polls we have been a part of over the past 7 years.

Doesn't matter that Quincy wasn't yelled at demonstrably or called out in public like others were. JB is a cranky, ornery coach. Kids see it, and you don't think Boeheim has snapped at him in practice a couple times? I do. He's been the same for 40 years. I appreciate what he's done, but it doesn't work anymore.

maybe unless the team is good next year and jr performs well

 

[jncuse]

I really liked Braswell, and I’m bummed that he left. I didn’t think he was a particularly good rebounder for us, so I took a look at his stats - here are some of his rebounding numbers from last season:

In 23.5 mins per game in the ACC and NCAA Tourneys (5 games total), Bras averaged 2.2 rebounds per game. He had 2 boards in 15 minutes in the loss to Houston, 3 boards in 29 minutes in the win over WVa, 2 boards in 25 minutes in the win over SDSt, 1 rebound in 27 minutes in the loss to Virginia, and 3 rebounds in 21 minutes in the win over NC St.

Braswell’s ‘Defensive Rebounding %’ stat (according to KenPom) was 12.3% last year.

Braswell was not really a good rebounder for us.

When comparing Braswell to Jimmy Jr (which was the general thrust of your post that I’ve quoted), there is reason for some optimism that Jimmy will help us more on the boards next year than Braswell did this year.

You are ignoring the first 173 minutes of the seasons where he rebounded very well (34 boards), and 100% focusing on the 117 minutes he didn't (11 boards)

He's not a great rebounder by any means, but purposely focusing on a sub sample to make a point isn't the strongest argument either.

Braswell career Reb % is13.4% (12.3% last year) in the ACC
Boeheim career Reb % is 9.6%(11.1% in 2019) in the IVY.

Why should we be optimistic that Jimmy will help us more on the boards?

 

[maxxyz]

That doesn’t make sense. Our forwards are interchangeable on offense. Cole and Jimmy would be the PFs anyways and Q would be the SF. His shooting skills are improving. Now he just needs to work on his driving and dribbling. But his post game still needs to be part of his arsenal.

I disagree, I think its all about offensive spacing.

Last year Buddy, JGIII and Alan Griffin were the perimeter players, relegating Q to be the 12 feet and in guy. For whatever reason, he was often left waiting to get the ball in the key.

I he was on the team this year, Buddy, JGIII and Cole would be the perimeter players, leaving Q with the same dilemma.

 

[Orangefizz]

I’d take the guys we lost over the guys we have 5 v 5, and I don’t think it would be close.

Girard, Boeheim, Swider, Williams, Boeheim, Sidibe
vs
Kadary, Griffin, Braswell, Newton, Guerrier, Ajak.

Wow we are losing a lot of athleticism!!!

 

[jncuse]

Without reading everything in this thread. I think its quite plausible there is a situation here that is relatively drama-free. (of course there are drama scenarios as well).

But to me it possible that there was no real divide between JB and QG and they respected each other. QG liked his time here, but he is now focusing on his pro career. He realizes he is on the tedious spot of being on the borders of being a prospect / not a prospect and sees a system that might work for the team, but not maximize his development either. And he has a unique opportunity this year to try to find that school to maybe develop him to that next level. It may well not work -- but it's not really a gamble either for him.
Certainly JB's rotation and personality could rub some (has rubbed some) the wrong way, but not convinced that is the case with QG.

 

[Alsacs]

Without reading everything in this thread. I think its quite plausible there is a situation here that is relatively drama-free. (of course there are drama scenarios as well).

But to me it possible that there was no real divide between JB and QG and they respected each other. QG liked his time here, but he is now focusing on his pro career. He realizes he is on the tedious spot of being on the borders of being a prospect / not a prospect and sees a system that might work for the team, but not maximize his development either. And he has a unique opportunity this year to try to find that school to maybe develop him to that next level. It may well not work -- but it's not really a gamble either for him.
Certainly JB's rotation and personality could rub some (has rubbed some) the wrong way, but not convinced that is the case with QG.

I don’t think JB’s personality had anything to do with QG.
I do think for sure it affected Woody.
I have no clue on Braswell.

The point I was debating was if QG is playing college hoops next year it should be here.
Others want to say we can’t wait for that decision.
I have said the portal is loaded with kids wanting to leave we could find a kid if QG decided in the end to go pro. The counter is that is why we took Jimmy Jr.
I said I like Jimmy Jr on the team as depth but to be a guy we should count on I am not a fan.
The other side is saying we had to take Jimmy Jr and couldn’t wait for QG.
I say QG is the better player we should wait if it’s an ultimatum.
I don’t the other side just wants to think anything critical of JB which is part of my frustration.
My loyalty is to the program first. I love and respect JB but I don’t think he is above asking questions on now at the end.

If QG plays college hoops next year that is an epic failure for us. Kid was 3rd team all-ACC.
We are potentially thin at forward next year because we had 2 kids at forward transfer. Thus QG’s decision going pro and us waiting shouldn’t have even mattered. If we didn’t lose 2 other forwards.

 

[malpearl31]

You are ignoring the first 173 minutes of the seasons where he rebounded very well (34 boards), and 100% focusing on the 117 minutes he didn't (11 boards)

He's not a great rebounder by any means, but purposely focusing on a sub sample to make a point isn't the strongest argument either.

Braswell career Reb % is13.4% (12.3% last year) in the ACC
Boeheim career Reb % is 9.6%(11.1% in 2019) in the IVY.

Why should we be optimistic that Jimmy will help us more on the boards?

You’re right, I did intentionally disregard all of Bras’ games from his freshman and sophomore seasons (103 minutes over 2 years), because it was mostly garbage-time minutes against non-ACC competition. I decided to focus on 2021 - specifically the end of the season - because those minutes were against the best competition in the highest pressure moments.

Also, it looks like you got your stats from sports-reference.com (?), but I think you’ve messed up the numbers a bit. Braswell’s 12.3% number last year that you listed was for DRB% (Jimmy’s DRB% was 17.6% in 2019-20) and Braswell’s TRB% last year was only 8.5% (compared to Jimmy’s 11.1% in 2019-20).

As far as career TRB% goes for both players - Bras is at 8.8% and Jimmy is at 9.6%. (All stats above from sports-reference.com)

It looks like in your analysis above, you used Bras’ DRB% stats (which are always higher), and compared them with Jimmy’s TRB% stats (which are lower than the DRB% numbers).

I stand by my statement that there is reason to think Jimmy will be better on the boards than Braswell was... but if you think differently, I have no issue with that. We’ll find out for sure on the court next year.

 

[jncuse]

You’re right, I did intentionally disregard all of Bras’ games from his freshman and sophomore seasons (103 minutes over 2 years), because it was mostly garbage-time minutes against non-ACC competition. I decided to focus on 2021 - specifically the end of the season - because those minutes were against the best competition in the highest pressure moments.

Also, it looks like you got your stats from sports-reference.com (?), but I think you’ve messed up the numbers a bit. Braswell’s 12.3% number last year that you listed was for DRB% (Jimmy’s DRB% was 17.6% in 2019-20) and Braswell’s TRB% last year was only 8.5% (compared to Jimmy’s 11.1% in 2019-20).

As far as career TRB% goes for both players - Bras is at 8.8% and Jimmy is at 9.6%. (All stats above from sports-reference.com)

It looks like in your analysis above, you used Bras’ DRB% stats (which are always higher), and compared them with Jimmy’s TRB% stats (which are lower than the DRB% numbers).

I stand by my statement that there is reason to think Jimmy will be better on the boards than Braswell was... but if you think differently, I have no issue with that. We’ll find out for sure on the court next year.

Your right .. I made a mistake and didn’t compare the same column which changes the totals for the year. So they are much close.

That being said still would use his 290 minutes for this year as opposed to 117 minutes. I would agree that the 103 minutes before this year have minimal use.

 

[teamco]

So the way things are going in college basketball this off-season I expect to see someone declare they are testing the NBA draft waters, announce they are considering signing with an agent, then decide they are entering the transfer portal too, accidentally wind up in the Time Tunnel, and find they are now two years younger and have signed a letter of intent with the school they thought they were leaving.

Maybe I shouldn't have had that last edible.

 

[Day2]

I don’t think JB’s personality had anything to do with QG.
I do think for sure it affected Woody.
I have no clue on Braswell.

The point I was debating was if QG is playing college hoops next year it should be here.
Others want to say we can’t wait for that decision.
I have said the portal is loaded with kids wanting to leave we could find a kid if QG decided in the end to go pro. The counter is that is why we took Jimmy Jr.
I said I like Jimmy Jr on the team as depth but to be a guy we should count on I am not a fan.
The other side is saying we had to take Jimmy Jr and couldn’t wait for QG.
I say QG is the better player we should wait if it’s an ultimatum.
I don’t the other side just wants to think anything critical of JB which is part of my frustration.
My loyalty is to the program first. I love and respect JB but I don’t think he is above asking questions on now at the end.

If QG plays college hoops next year that is an epic failure for us. Kid was 3rd team all-ACC.
We are potentially thin at forward next year because we had 2 kids at forward transfer. Thus QG’s decision going pro and us waiting shouldn’t have even mattered. If we didn’t lose 2 other forwards.

Except, as UpstateSM pointed out, Junior is better than the guys who are still in the portal. And I look forward to you showing me who is left when QG makes a final decision.

 

[Alsacs]

Except, as UpstateSM pointed out, Junior is better than the guys who are still in the portal. And I look forward to you showing me who is left when QG makes a final decision.

Maybe JB should have done a better job with Woody and Braswell then.

If we didn’t lose 2/3s of our freshman class that would have helped.

 

[rrlbees]

I don’t think JB’s personality had anything to do with QG.
I do think for sure it affected Woody.
I have no clue on Braswell.

The point I was debating was if QG is playing college hoops next year it should be here.
Others want to say we can’t wait for that decision.
I have said the portal is loaded with kids wanting to leave we could find a kid if QG decided in the end to go pro. The counter is that is why we took Jimmy Jr.
I said I like Jimmy Jr on the team as depth but to be a guy we should count on I am not a fan.
The other side is saying we had to take Jimmy Jr and couldn’t wait for QG.
I say QG is the better player we should wait if it’s an ultimatum.
I don’t the other side just wants to think anything critical of JB which is part of my frustration.
My loyalty is to the program first. I love and respect JB but I don’t think he is above asking questions on now at the end.

If QG plays college hoops next year that is an epic failure for us. Kid was 3rd team all-ACC.
We are potentially thin at forward next year because we had 2 kids at forward transfer. Thus QG’s decision going pro and us waiting shouldn’t have even mattered. If we didn’t lose 2 other forwards.

we don’t know who’ll be available come July. Nor do we know today if anyone available is better than Jimmy.

 

[Alsacs]

we don’t know who’ll be available come July. Nor do we know today if anyone available is better than Jimmy.

We do know if we didn’t lose both Braswell and Woody that QG’s status limbo wouldn’t have necessitated being aggressive with needing Jimmy Jr. to rush a decision.

It makes the Woody Newton situation matter.

 

[Day2]

Maybe JB should have done a better job with Woody and Braswell then.

Nice deflection. Braswell wasn’t going to start here and that’s what he wanted. Looks like he also wanted to be closer to home.

Newton was a lost cause.

Guerrier would have only created less opportunity for both of them.

 

[Alsacs]

Nice deflection. Braswell wasn’t going to start here and that’s what he wanted. Looks like he also wanted to be closer to home.

Newton was a lost cause.

Guerrier would have only created less opportunity for both of them.

Give a me break.
You ignore the Woody story competely I was told what happened and it’s on the HC.

He wasn’t a lost cause. Standards were different and don’t expect kids to ignore that.

Braswell wanted to start? Please find that one. I missed it if he said that.
He was getting starters minutes at the end of the season.

 

[Day2]

Give a me break.
You ignore the Woody story competely I was told what happened and it’s on the HC.

He wasn’t a lost cause. Standards were different and don’t expect kids to ignore that.

Braswell wanted to start? Please find that one. I missed it if he said that.
He was getting starters minutes at the end of the season.

Are you sure I’m the one ignoring the Newton story? Of course you say it’s on the HC. It’s probably JB’s fault they screwed up your order at Applebee’s last night.

Braswell’s going to a lesser program and I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t start. It’s not that hard to connect the dots.