Recruiting, what is the SU brand to entice the best recruits to commit to Cuse?

[Manleymen]

Clearly it does not work of late. Is it the JB ly personality? Assistants are not getting it done? Who is the last top 20 recruit we have landed? Why are we not landing our fair share the past few years?

 

[OrangeDW]

The new Dome scoreboard is really cool. Whether the game is any good or not, your parents can get drunk at the games. The script unis are incredible. We still get the most fans at the games.

 

[orangefog]

most of the best recruits are looking for something that we can’t offer.

 

[MadNY3]

Clearly it does not work of late. Is it the JB ly personality? Assistants are not getting it done? Who is the last top 20 recruit we have landed? Why are we not landing our fair share the past few years?

The brand is great. The product has been a bit broken which continues to be an issue. Especially when the head of product determines this to be his “best year” despite it being the most flawed product since Preston and MeShawn.

 

[Manleymen]

most of the best recruits are looking for something that we can’t offer.

What is it we cannot offer?

 

[pwong]

What is it we cannot offer?

We wont give recruits a bag or a close recruit to Head coach relationship.

 

[orangefog]

What is it we cannot offer?

We wont give recruits a bag or a close recruit to Head coach relationship.

We’ve been punished for far less than the blue bloods get away with.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

When you play pickup ball in the park, and someone calls out, “Let’s play zone,” what kind of reaction should they expect?

We used to get great recruits when we played m2m. The brand was strong. Then we switched to zone and still got some nice players. But the brand changed, and gradually the rankings of the recruits began to dwindle. The brand used to be Showtime. Then, it was the slowest, lowest-scoring team in the conference. And now, we’re a team that hasn’t finished near the top of the league and hadn’t been ranked since recruits were still shooting underhand at 8’ rims.

 

[cuseattle]

When Pearl committed on national TV, he said something like "Im choosing the run and gun Syracuse Orangemen."
Wish I could find an old clip of that somewhere.

 

[GooseMutt]

When Pearl committed on national TV, he said something like "Im choosing the run and gun Syracuse Orangemen."
Wish I could find an old clip of that somewhere.

Run is not in our vocabulary anymore but gun sure is

 

[Red Holzman]

The "brand" will always be the Dome: images of 30K+ fans going crazy on alley-oops, breakaway dunks, huge blocks. I think many top recruits that came to SU couldn't resist the opportunity to bask in that fan adoration and excitement.
Bring back the athletes and bring back the "brand".

If I was a recruit, wouldn't be able to get past a miserable, scowling old man image of JB on sideline.
Then seeing JB venomous press conference throwing players under the bus and humiliating reporters...
The program's run and gun and high status in the past may have trumped the above, but no longer.
Wouldn't want to play SU's 100% zone or current SU "offense".
Based on above, wouldn't play for the current SU brand.

 

[supp]

Clearly it does not work of late. Is it the JB ly personality? Assistants are not getting it done? Who is the last top 20 recruit we have landed? Why are we not landing our fair share the past few years?

JB is the prime suspect. His abrasiveness, his public bullying of his players, the general inflexibility in gameplan and game management, declining results under him, and the fact that he's almost 80. Together it's a deadly combo.

 

[Cuse181]

When you play pickup ball in the park, and someone calls out, “Let’s play zone,” what kind of reaction should they expect?

We used to get great recruits when we played m2m. The brand was strong. Then we switched to zone and still got some nice players. But the brand changed, and gradually the rankings of the recruits began to dwindle. The brand used to be Showtime. Then, it was the slowest, lowest-scoring team in the conference. And now, we’re a team that hasn’t finished near the top of the league and hadn’t been ranked since recruits were still shooting underhand at 8’ rims.

The best stretch syracuse ever had (2008-2014) was when they were exclusively playing zone…

 

[OrangeDW]

The best stretch syracuse ever had (2008-2014) was when they were exclusively playing zone…

Yeah. I think it’s more the poor PG play/intentionally playing slow that’s killed us, “brand wise”.

The stretch you named we had Flynn, Triche, Scoop, MCW, and Ennis, and for most of that era we’d get out and go off both turnovers and rebounds. The zone was said to be an advantage in that regard because everybody was already in their lanes to run once we got the ball.

2015-now we’ve mostly had 2 guards playing point because we have nobody else. The only decent PG’s we’ve had were a 5th year transfer(Gillon), and a kid who transferred after his first year.

 

[Cuse181]

Yeah. I think it’s more the poor PG play/intentionally playing slow that’s killed us, “brand wise”.

The stretch you named we had Flynn, Triche, Scoop, MCW, and Ennis, and for most of that era we’d get out and go off both turnovers and rebounds. The zone was said to be an advantage in that regard because everybody was already in their lanes to run once we got the ball.

I agree, PG misses have been massive. It all started with Ennis leaving early, he was good but I think a lot of people thought he would be a 2-and-done guy. Kaleb Joseph was a top 50 guy who never materialized and but maybe would’ve been helped by sitting for a year behind ennis. Then came the years of the “square peg in a round hole” frank Howard being transitioned to PG, followed by Gbinje, followed by the Jalen Carey debacle that lead to JG starting at the 1 and then of course Kadary moving on. The team has had decent options, but never any good options at PG since 2014 (edit: the Gillon year is sandwiched in there but again, he wasn’t a perfect syracuse-style PG either)

 

[baggerbob]

The best stretch syracuse ever had (2008-2014) was when they were exclusively playing zone…

From The last year of Pearl to the last year of Billy Owens we were not less then a 2 seed, and always in the top 10.
The competition was stronger before all the one and dones(1986-1991).

 

[FrancoPizza]

The best stretch syracuse ever had (2008-2014) was when they were exclusively playing zone…

Is this for real? The game has changed a lot since then.

And what makes you think we couldn’t play man with those athletes?

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah. I think it’s more the poor PG play/intentionally playing slow that’s killed us, “brand wise”.

The stretch you named we had Flynn, Triche, Scoop, MCW, and Ennis, and for most of that era we’d get out and go off both turnovers and rebounds. The zone was said to be an advantage in that regard because everybody was already in their lanes to run once we got the ball.

2015-now we’ve mostly had 2 guards playing point because we have nobody else. The only decent PG’s we’ve had were a 5th year transfer(Gillon), and a kid who transferred after his first year.

If only PG wasn’t the most important position in college hoops.

I wish because defense didn’t matter the last 4 years we recruited a small speedy PG but we couldn’t because we had to play SGs in the backcourt.
A Gillon type not even a Flynn would have worked the last few years.

 

[Cuse181]

From The last year of Pearl to the last year of Billy Owens we were not less then a 2 seed, and always in the top 10.
The competition was stronger before all the one and dones(1986-1991).

Agree to disagree

 

[OrangeDW]

From The last year of Pearl to the last year of Billy Owens we were not less then a 2 seed, and always in the top 10.
The competition was stronger before all the one and dones(1986-1991).

And we made it to a national title game.

Pearl, Sherm, DC, Billy …..that’s probably 4 of our top 6 players ever.

 

[baggerbob]

And we made it to a national title game.

Pearl, Sherm, DC, Billy …..that’s probably 4 of our top 6 players ever.

And during the time frame you had Georgetown, St Johns, Villanova, Syracuse, Providence,(1985-1987) in the final four.

 

[orangefog]

And we made it to a national title game.

Pearl, Sherm, DC, Billy …..that’s probably 4 of our top 6 players ever.

I remember, at the time, not respecting Rony that much. But, now I realize what a freaking monster he was his junior and senior seasons.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I blame it on the ACC. If we would have stayed in the BE our recruiting would have remained strong.

 

[OrangeDW]

I remember, at the time, not respecting Rony that much. But, now I realize what a freaking monster he was his junior and senior seasons.

Right…throw him in and that’s arguably 5 of our top 10?

Now maybe Dion, MCW, Flynn, and Fab would be at that level if they played Junior and even senior seasons here. But we can only go on what happened.

Though if we were ranking said players as NBA players, DC, Sherm, Rony, and Billy probably had the 4 best NBA careers too, with Dion and MCW coming in 5th and 6th. So really, that first group was just a little better, at least at the top of the rosters.

 

[RF2044]

Right…throw him in and that’s arguably 5 of our top 10?

Now maybe Dion, MCW, Flynn, and Fab would be at that level if they played Junior and even senior seasons here. But we can only go on what happened.

Though if we were ranking said players as NBA players, DC, Sherm, Rony, and Billy probably had the 4 best NBA careers too, with Dion and MCW coming in 5th and 6th. So really, that first group was just a little better, at least at the top of the rosters.

That first group was SUBSTANTIALLY better. All four of those guys were starting caliber players for multiple years. MCW and Dion are / were rotation guys. Not dissing them, but their NBA careers don't hold a torch to the guys from the late 80s / early 90s.