Class of 2020 Recruits and Offers

[tep624]

We continue to miss not just on priority players - that happens to every school - but we are missing out entirely on priority positions! We have GOT to get some big kids on this team. And our inability to sign any QBs is utterly baffling. I mean, come on!

I posted that 6 weeks ago when it looked like Cade Fortin was definitely coming here.

 

[General Joe]

I posted that 6 weeks ago when it looked like Cade Fortin was definitely coming here.

Well we have two qb recruits now.

 

[General Joe]

Looking at our recruits we hope they all far exceed even the great expectations of the recruiters that signed these kids. We welcome them to the hill and the Syracuse family. But I am hoping this isnt it. After a predicted 6-6 year we fell to a even more disappointing 5-7 year that put a blaring spotlight (for those who ignored the warnings as far back as 3 years ago) on our O-line and D-line in BOTH quality depth AND starting talent. We are losing two GREAT college DE's to the NFL draft who masked our liabilities on defense and lack of size and athleticism at LB. We also lose two O-lineman including Adams who was our best and most experienced. The good news was we hit the offseason knowing the areas we had to focus on improving. D-line and O-line. Now lets review our reinforcements in those areas via recruiting.

1 interior D-line prospect Ilaoa who it seems played more on O-line in high school and had one P5 offer to play O-line at Illinois. It looks like we are moving him to DT out of necessity. And thats it!! All of the P5 teams that took a DT and Kenesaw St, Gardner Webb, Rhode Island, Stephen Austin, UH, WKU, Kent, UNLV, Tulane 2x FAU, Buffalo, Troy, LouisianaTech, Louisiana Monroe, ECU 2x, Princeton, Toledo, Tulsa, UTSA, Rice, ODU and Villanova all got atleast one higher rated DT than we did withour 1 dt recruit this cycle. Wow!!! The hope is that he is really a stud but focused on O-line his last year in high school but will be a BEAST and come in with a chip on his shoulder. We recruited some solid DE prospects this cycle in Kinsler and Lowery. Both should contribute in 2022 and on after they have hit the weight room. Lets hope one of them surprises and hits the field earlier.

On the O-line, a good transfer from Florida Bleich who will probably have to sit a year. Lets pray he gets a waiver and is our starting LG week 1 at BC. A OT Barclay who had only 1 other offer from any P5 teams. A OG from Germany Petry with ZERO other P5 offers. A blocking TE from Germany that played wait for it ... VOLLEYBALL, no other P5 offers for him. I am praying that these guys are "Diamonds in the Rhine". Again lets hope these guys turn out to be standouts that every other P5 recruiter missed, or passed on and that we've found. That said can we please please please add a player that is ready to contribute day 1 like every other P5 team recruits??? The schedule next year does us zero favors by having us start at two P5 teams @BC and Rutgers. We know what BC did to us last year. The idea of that O-line even the backups that played vs us in 4th quarter is scary. Couple that with the fact we will be playing a 3-3-5 with brand new D-coord and scheme and its right in the frying pan out the gate. Perhaps one of the players I listed above is a the stud that pushes and starts day 1. Lets go Orange

 

[sutomcat]

Looking at our recruits we hope they all far exceed even the great expectations of the recruiters that signed these kids. We welcome them to the hill and the Syracuse family. But I am hoping this isnt it. After a predicted 6-6 year we fell to a even more disappointing 5-7 year that put a blaring spotlight (for those who ignored the warnings as far back as 3 years ago) on our O-line and D-line in BOTH quality depth AND starting talent. We are losing two GREAT college DE's to the NFL draft who masked our liabilities on defense and lack of size and athleticism at LB. We also lose two O-lineman including Adams who was our best and most experienced. The good news was we hit the offseason knowing the areas we had to focus on improving. D-line and O-line. Now lets review our reinforcements in those areas via recruiting.

1 interior D-line prospect Ilaoa who it seems played more on O-line in high school and had one P5 offer to play O-line at Illinois. It looks like we are moving him to DT out of necessity. And thats it!! All of the P5 teams that took a DT and Kenesaw St, Gardner Webb, Rhode Island, Stephen Austin, UH, WKU, Kent, UNLV, Tulane 2x FAU, Buffalo, Troy, LouisianaTech, Louisiana Monroe, ECU 2x, Princeton, Toledo, Tulsa, UTSA, Rice, ODU and Villanova all got atleast one higher rated DT than we did withour 1 dt recruit this cycle. Wow!!! The hope is that he is really a stud but focused on O-line his last year in high school but will be a BEAST and come in with a chip on his shoulder. We recruited some solid DE prospects this cycle in Kinsler and Lowery. Both should contribute in 2022 and on after they have hit the weight room. Lets hope one of them surprises and hits the field earlier.

On the O-line, a good transfer from Florida Bleich who will probably have to sit a year. Lets pray he gets a waiver and is our starting LG week 1 at BC. A OT Barclay who had only 1 other offer from any P5 teams. A OG from Germany Petry with ZERO other P5 offers. A blocking TE from Germany that played wait for it ... VOLLEYBALL, no other P5 offers for him. I am praying that these guys are "Diamonds in the Rhine". Again lets hope these guys turn out to be standouts that every other P5 recruiter missed, or passed on and that we've found. That said can we please please please add a player that is ready to contribute day 1 like every other P5 team recruits??? The schedule next year does us zero favors by having us start at two P5 teams @BC and Rutgers. We know what BC did to us last year. The idea of that O-line even the backups that played vs us in 4th quarter is scary. Couple that with the fact we will be playing a 3-3-5 with brand new D-coord and scheme and its right in the frying pan out the gate. Perhaps one of the players I listed above is a the stud that pushes and starts day 1. Lets go Orange

As far as I know, Ilaoa has always been considered an OL by the SU staff. He was listed as an OL on LOI day and is listed as an OL on the roster. We have a ton of DEs on the roster and some will grow into DTs. Remember, we just cut our need for DTs in half going to the 3-3-5.

 

[General Joe]

As far as I know, Ilaoa has always been considered an OL by the SU staff. He was listed as an OL on LOI day and is listed as an OL on the roster. We have a ton of DEs on the roster and some will grow into DTs. Remember, we just cut our need for DTs in half going to the 3-3-5.

If that is the case doesn't it make the depth even worse???????? That would mean that we didnt get even 1 DT this cycle while we lose two DT's to graduation next year. And would literally be pinning our hopes on kids that didn't even play DT in high school playing it vs O-lineman in Clemson and BC and NCST etc who will be going to the NFL. We have got to stop recruiting like a MAC team (with kids that MIGHT grow into a position, and MIGHT be good at that position). This is one of the main reasons we are in the predicament that we are in with 4 or 5 win seasons 3 of the last 4 years, and without a Eric Dungey to win 3 games. I blamed HCSS for recruiting like a MAC program, but it was all he knew and the best he could do. Look at GT, NCST or UVA BC. Top recruits are 3 or 4 star O-lineman and D-line players that already have the size and experience from playing that position in high school. Even Pitt with the 250lb DE Hayes or the five 4 star Hogs on the D-line recruited to NC. The point is we will see our beloved Orange getting dominated at the point of attack on both sides just like last year. We have got to get better and more talent and that starts with recruiting on the lines. Again look at every other ACC team

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Remember, we just cut our need for DTs in half going to the 3-3-5.
[/QUOTE]
I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[sutomcat]

Remember, we just cut our need for DTs in half going to the 3-3-5.

I'll believe that when I see it.

Help me to understand. What is causing your doubt?

You don’t believe 1 is half of 2?

Or you don’t believe we hired someone who only knows the 3-3-5 to actually run the 3-3-5?

 

[721Comstock]

Help me to understand. What is causing your doubt?

You don’t believe 1 is half of 2?

Or you don’t believe we hired someone who only knows the 3-3-5 to actually run the 3-3-5?

OiB is under the strange misapprehension that going from 4 DL to 3 DL means you bizarrely go from 2 DT’s to 3 DT’s.

Here’s the DL for a 4-3:

DE DT DT DE

Here’s what a 3 man front looks like:

DE DT DE

Here’s OiB’s perception of what they believe a 3-3-5 DL looks like:

DT DT DT

SAVE THE DE’s!!!!
DE - YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN!!

 

[PhatOrange]

OiB is under the strange misapprehension that going from 4 DL to 3 DL means you bizarrely go from 2 DT’s to 3 DT’s.

Here’s the DL for a 4-3:

DE DT DT DE

Here’s what a 3 man front looks like:

DE DT DE

Here’s OiB’s perception of what they believe a 3-3-5 DL looks like:

DT DT DT

SAVE THE DE’s!!!!
DE - YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN!!

except DE DT DE those two DEs need to be 280. So for us it’s really having 3 DTs. It’s not going from 4 to 3. It’s going from 2 to 3.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Help me to understand. What is causing your doubt?

You don’t believe 1 is half of 2?

Or you don’t believe we hired someone who only knows the 3-3-5 to actually run the 3-3-5?

I am afraid that belief in a 3-3-5 defense is a rationalization for having a bunch of 260 Lb Dlinemen. Yes, we have Bear and a couple of others. But, any self-respecting ACC OC will see a lightweight line, lick his lips, and run us over.

 

[General Joe]

I am afraid that belief in a 3-3-5 defense is a rationalization for having a bunch of 260 Lb Dlinemen. Yes, we have Bear and a couple of others. But, any self-respecting ACC OC will see a lightweight line, lick his lips, and run us over.

I hear a lot of silly things on here from people you can tell are really intelligent and know football. Saying "we are running a 3-3-5 so we need less DT" is like saying "we are a rushing offense so we only need 1 qb on the roster". It probably doesnt make any sense. The last few years we went from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 hybrid based on personel... or lack of. Our new D-cord has said he wants to run a "BIG 3-3-5" similiar to AZ ST. This might work in the ACC IF you have the bodies. If you look at Clemson they do it a lot BUT they have the personel. Here is what AZST Dline alignment looked like last year

STARTERS
DL 6-2 284 Jermayne Lole #90
DT 6-4 313 DJ Davidson #98
DL 6-4 273 Roe Wilkins #95

Rotation
DL 6-3 284 George Lea #17
DL 6-3 258 Tyler Johnson #41
DT 6-2 293 Shannon Forman #97
DT 6-5 313 TJ Pesefea #44

As I said you have to have the bodies (BIG) to run this defense. D lineman are essential 2 versatile DT and a big DE who have to be versatile enough to play 5 technique and strong enough to play 3 technique in the scheme Herm Edwards, Long Antonio Peirce run at AZST. Its a hybrid that sometimes is aligned in Elephant. I watched a little tape on them when we were going after the clown that ditched us for Miss St. Which brings me to sunny point number two. This guy we signed wasn't the D-coord he was essentially a defensive backs coach so who knows what he will install. As it pertains to this conversation we definitely dont have the personel upfront for what they run at AZST in size or number of bodies. We essentially have two DT's and a bunch of 4'3 DE (smaller DE) who line up wide (no 3 technique). If you watch AZST you realize that they have NFL coaches working the defense and running a complex scheme (exotic on the backend). We actually have the personel on the backend but its useless if you dont have 3 BIG versatile DL to go with a nose guard, AND depth because big DL running from farther out to get to a qb get tired faster. Again look at the rotation AZST used w D-lineman. They also flex a SLB down on some plays who is the size of our DE. All of this said It would be great to have Liberty and a cupcake to start followed with a bye week to work out kinks. But we start with BC week 1 it could get ugly

 

[dasher]

I hear a lot of silly things on here from people you can tell are really intelligent and know football. Saying "we are running a 3-3-5 so we need less DT" is like saying "we are a rushing offense so we only need 1 qb on the roster". It probably doesnt make any sense. The last few years we went from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 hybrid based on personel... or lack of. Our new D-cord has said he wants to run a "BIG 3-3-5" similiar to AZ ST. This might work in the ACC IF you have the bodies. If you look at Clemson they do it a lot BUT they have the personel. Here is what AZST Dline alignment looked like last year

STARTERS
DL 6-2 284 Jermayne Lole #90
DT 6-4 313 DJ Davidson #98
DL 6-4 273 Roe Wilkins #95

Rotation
DL 6-3 284 George Lea #17
DL 6-3 258 Tyler Johnson #41
DT 6-2 293 Shannon Forman #97
DT 6-5 313 TJ Pesefea #44

As I said you have to have the bodies (BIG) to run this defense. D lineman are essential 2 versatile DT and a big DE who have to be versatile enough to play 5 technique and strong enough to play 3 technique in the scheme Herm Edwards, Long Antonio Peirce run at AZST. Its a hybrid that sometimes is aligned in Elephant. I watched a little tape on them when we were going after the clown that ditched us for Miss St. Which brings me to sunny point number two. This guy we signed wasn't the D-coord he was essentially a defensive backs coach so who knows what he will install. As it pertains to this conversation we definitely dont have the personel upfront for what they run at AZST in size or number of bodies. We essentially have two DT's and a bunch of 4'3 DE (smaller DE) who line up wide (no 3 technique). If you watch AZST you realize that they have NFL coaches working the defense and running a complex scheme (exotic on the backend). We actually have the personel on the backend but its useless if you dont have 3 BIG versatile DL to go with a nose guard, AND depth because big DL running from farther out to get to a qb get tired faster. Again look at the rotation AZST used w D-lineman. They also flex a SLB down on some plays who is the size of our DE. All of this said It would be great to have Liberty and a cupcake to start followed with a bye week to work out kinks. But we start with BC week 1 it could get ugly

B.C has a new Head coach and the monster running back is gone. They will have some new stuff to deal with.

 

[CuseLegacy]

This thread is about the 2020 Class. If you want to discuss coaches take it to the football forum.

 

[sutomcat]

I hear a lot of silly things on here from people you can tell are really intelligent and know football. Saying "we are running a 3-3-5 so we need less DT" is like saying "we are a rushing offense so we only need 1 qb on the roster". It probably doesnt make any sense. The last few years we went from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 hybrid based on personel... or lack of. Our new D-cord has said he wants to run a "BIG 3-3-5" similiar to AZ ST. This might work in the ACC IF you have the bodies. If you look at Clemson they do it a lot BUT they have the personel. Here is what AZST Dline alignment looked like last year

STARTERS
DL 6-2 284 Jermayne Lole #90
DT 6-4 313 DJ Davidson #98
DL 6-4 273 Roe Wilkins #95

Rotation
DL 6-3 284 George Lea #17
DL 6-3 258 Tyler Johnson #41
DT 6-2 293 Shannon Forman #97
DT 6-5 313 TJ Pesefea #44

As I said you have to have the bodies (BIG) to run this defense. D lineman are essential 2 versatile DT and a big DE who have to be versatile enough to play 5 technique and strong enough to play 3 technique in the scheme Herm Edwards, Long Antonio Peirce run at AZST. Its a hybrid that sometimes is aligned in Elephant. I watched a little tape on them when we were going after the clown that ditched us for Miss St. Which brings me to sunny point number two. This guy we signed wasn't the D-coord he was essentially a defensive backs coach so who knows what he will install. As it pertains to this conversation we definitely dont have the personel upfront for what they run at AZST in size or number of bodies. We essentially have two DT's and a bunch of 4'3 DE (smaller DE) who line up wide (no 3 technique). If you watch AZST you realize that they have NFL coaches working the defense and running a complex scheme (exotic on the backend). We actually have the personel on the backend but its useless if you dont have 3 BIG versatile DL to go with a nose guard, AND depth because big DL running from farther out to get to a qb get tired faster. Again look at the rotation AZST used w D-lineman. They also flex a SLB down on some plays who is the size of our DE. All of this said It would be great to have Liberty and a cupcake to start followed with a bye week to work out kinks. But we start with BC week 1 it could get ugly

Wow, have you read a single article on the 3-3-5, how it came to be and how it works? I couldn’t disagree with you more.

Here is the two deep for San Diego State at the start of the 2019 season:

Defensive end
Myles Cheatum, 6-2, 265, Sr.
Jalil Lecky, 6-5, 240, Jr.

Defensive tackle
Cameron Thomas, 6-5, 260, Fr.
Jonah Tavai, 6-0, 315, Jr.

Defensive end
Keshawn Banks, 6-4, 270, So.
Connor Mitchell, 6-5, 260, So.

Linebacker
Caden McDonald, 6-3, 230, So.
Kaelin Himphill, 6-2, 225, Jr.

Middle linebacker
Kyavha Tezino, 6-0, 235, Sr.
Troy Cassidy, 6-3, 230, Sr. OR
Michael Shawcroft, 6-2, 225, Fr.

Linebacker
Andrew Aleki, 6-3, 225, Jr.
Seyddrick Lakalaka, 6-1, 230, So.

Cornerback
Luq Barcoo, 6-1, 175, Sr.
Eric Wilson, 6-0, 185, Jr.

Safety
Kyree Woods, 6-0, 190, Sr.
Tayler Hawkins, 6-1, 205, Jr.

Safety (Aztec)
Dwayne Johnson, 6-2, 215, Jr.
Patrick McMorris, 6-0, 180, Fr.

Safety
Tariq Thompson, 6-0, 200, Jr.
Trenton Thompson 6-2, 200, Jr.

Cornerback
Darren Hall, 6-0, 180, So.
Nolen Harris, 6-0, 185, Jr.

Arizona State has a lot more talent on their DL than we do. They had options we did not.

I hear a lot of silly things on here from people you can tell are really intelligent and know football. Saying "we are running a 3-3-5 so we need less DT" is like saying "we are a rushing offense so we only need 1 qb on the roster". It probably doesnt make any sense. The last few years we went from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 hybrid based on personel... or lack of. Our new D-cord has said he wants to run a "BIG 3-3-5" similiar to AZ ST. This might work in the ACC IF you have the bodies. If you look at Clemson they do it a lot BUT they have the personel. Here is what AZST Dline alignment looked like last year

STARTERS
DL 6-2 284 Jermayne Lole #90
DT 6-4 313 DJ Davidson #98
DL 6-4 273 Roe Wilkins #95

Rotation
DL 6-3 284 George Lea #17
DL 6-3 258 Tyler Johnson #41
DT 6-2 293 Shannon Forman #97
DT 6-5 313 TJ Pesefea #44

As I said you have to have the bodies (BIG) to run this defense. D lineman are essential 2 versatile DT and a big DE who have to be versatile enough to play 5 technique and strong enough to play 3 technique in the scheme Herm Edwards, Long Antonio Peirce run at AZST. Its a hybrid that sometimes is aligned in Elephant. I watched a little tape on them when we were going after the clown that ditched us for Miss St. Which brings me to sunny point number two. This guy we signed wasn't the D-coord he was essentially a defensive backs coach so who knows what he will install. As it pertains to this conversation we definitely dont have the personel upfront for what they run at AZST in size or number of bodies. We essentially have two DT's and a bunch of 4'3 DE (smaller DE) who line up wide (no 3 technique). If you watch AZST you realize that they have NFL coaches working the defense and running a complex scheme (exotic on the backend). We actually have the personel on the backend but its useless if you dont have 3 BIG versatile DL to go with a nose guard, AND depth because big DL running from farther out to get to a qb get tired faster. Again look at the rotation AZST used w D-lineman. They also flex a SLB down on some plays who is the size of our DE. All of this said It would be great to have Liberty and a cupcake to start followed with a bye week to work out kinks. But we start with BC week 1 it could get ugly

I think you are really confused about the San Diego State 3-3-5. There have been a lot of good articles posted on it. It is clear you have not read them. I recommend educating yourself.

This article is a good place to start.

Origin story of the 3-3-5 defense employed by ASU and SDSU

Tracing the lineage of the 3-3-5 defense Danny Gonzales has brought to ASU, one developed by Rocky Long after more than three decades in the making.

247sports.com

Our defensive unit has good quickness and athletic ability but not much size and strength. The San Diego State 3-3-5 is a really good fit for the personnel we have today. IMHO, you do not need oversized linemen to stop the run and be successful. The scheme calls for quickness and athletic ability; not size and brute strength.

It is better to have a 250 pound DE who is quick enough to drop into coverage and sometimes play as a LB than to have a 280 pound guy who can't move. We want DEs who can be LBs. We want LBs who can also be DEs and safeties. We want safeties who can fill in as LBs and corners, corners who can fill in as safeties, etc.

Tony White has been coaching the 3-3-5 since 2009. He was hired specifically to bring the 3-3-5 defense to Syracuse. I am concerned that you are wondering what kind of scheme he is going to install.

It is true some of the coaches at Arizona State come from an NFL background and there are reports they were not comfortable with the 3-3-5 scheme. That was reported as one of the reasons Tony was so interested in the position at Syracuse. It is no surprise that the minute Tony announced he was leaving, ASU announced they were switching back to a more traditional scheme. I suspect the oversized DEs ASU played last season hindered the 3-3-5 to some degree, and interference/lack of buy in from the rest of the staff played a role in getting the defense running in an optimal way.

You say Tony wants to run a "Big 3-3-5". I haven't seen that quote. Where did you read that?