Red grade so far

[Cusefan69]

My out of conference prediction was 7-4, so I agree that people had lofty expectations if they thought we would have a better record than that. I’m surprised how immature we look and that this Benny thing has gone downhill the way it has. I didn’t expect miracles from him, but I did expect he would mature. Bell and Taylor have shown progress, so that reflects well on Red.

Yeah the Benny matter is tough. JB a seasoned pro had issues with him as well. I view that situation as "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink ". Benny has a maturity issue and only he can fix that at the end of the day. My sense is people have tried.

 

[Orangezoo]

Re: Jesse. I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. We had this debate a couple of months ago, and you said, meh, you didn't think we would miss Jesse because Red would play differently.

I agree that most people, including the coaching staff, never imagined that JJ would struggle as much as he has, which has definitely affected the outlook of the team. Plus, the Chance injury.

So I don't think we miss Jesse the player as an elite skillset quite as much as the timing and familiarity hurt us along with how things have played out. We do miss him more by way of the other absences though I will say that. Had you told me things would go as they did with Benny, Westry and JJ I would have 1000 pct agreed with you. So now as things have unfolded its a shame we have to miss him as much as we do. Naheem was never going to be him or provide that production but without the other pieces being healthy or competent yeah we miss him dearly right now and the timing of his exit that reduced any ability to find an equivalent replacement hurts a ton.

Furthermore, he's playing for a team with zero hope and likely a losing team. It's lose lose. No need to drive the point home. I call it as I see it imo at the moment and right now it stings a ton.

 

[Orangezoo]

My out of conference prediction was 7-4, so I agree that people had lofty expectations if they thought we would have a better record than that. I’m surprised how immature we look and that this Benny thing has gone downhill the way it has. I didn’t expect miracles from him, but I did expect he would mature. Bell and Taylor have shown progress, so that reflects well on Red.

With a new coach it is truly finding whose bought in. Judah is a wildcard talent and hard to gage. Most of the other sophomore class seems locked in. Taylor and Bell are playing really well. JJ is bought in but struggling. Give me the core we have bought in then add next year's class and I'm high on what we can do.

 

[cuseinseattle]

So I don't think we miss Jesse the player as an elite skillset quite as much as the timing and familiarity hurt us along with how things have played out. We do miss him more by way of the other absences though I will say that. Had you told me things would go as they did with Benny, Westry and JJ I would have 1000 pct agreed with you. So now as things have unfolded its a shame we have to miss him as much as we do. Naheem was never going to be him or provide that production but without the other pieces being healthy or competent yeah we miss him dearly right now and the timing of his exit that reduced any ability to find an equivalent replacement hurts a ton.

Furthermore, he's playing for a team with zero hope and likely a losing team. It's lose lose. No need to drive the point home. I call it as I see it imo at the moment and right now it stings a ton.

Jesse is going to average like 15-16 points and 9 rebounds this year. He would be a game changer for us in every way.

 

[Orangezoo]

Jesse is going to average like 15-16 points and 9 rebounds this year. He would be a game changer for us in every way.

Not saying he wouldn't at this point. His loss is however more magnified by all the other issues we have to go with McLeod being just meh.

 

[cuseinseattle]

So far I'm happy with what Red has done. I have concerns regarding our half court offense but I do like the way we are getting out in transition and the pace of play in general. I give him a B.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Not saying he wouldn't at this point. His loss is however more magnified by all the other issues we have to go with McLeod being just meh.

Also if we could shoot the ball better and open up driving lanes with that it would not be as noticeable. We could really use a low post scorer right now to help our offense.

 

[Orangezoo]

Also if we could shoot the ball better and open up driving lanes with that it would not be as noticeable. We could really use a low post scorer right now to help our offense.

Yep. Plus we haven't pressed as much as I thought so playing a style with more defending in the halfcourt is perfect for Jesse. That's something that surprises me a bit too.

I am hoping we get to see Westry make an impact when he returns and that other guys can half mid year improvements. Maybe we see someone like Carey make a jump and get some minutes here and there and then JJ settles in more.

 

[jordoo]

My out of conference prediction was 7-4, so I agree that people had lofty expectations if they thought we would have a better record than that. I’m surprised how immature we look and that this Benny thing has gone downhill the way it has. I didn’t expect miracles from him, but I did expect he would mature. Bell and Taylor have shown progress, so that reflects well on Red.

We won all the games we had to win. Anything more would have been a bonus. We have done that with Benny regressing, JJ not only being less than expected but performing worse than he did at ND, no Westry at all, limited front court depth that is actually playable and a banged up Brown out of the gate. The returning sophomore class has shown improvement. We lost our two most experienced players and have a new system on both sides of the ball. If the team continues to improve and Westry plays well when he is back then the season still has lots of possibilities as we haven't botched the OOC schedule.

This whole thread is silly. Recruiting is a big part of the coaching job and we wont be able to evaluate that fairly until Coach has had 3 or 4 recruiting classes. Just like evaluating his system/results in season 1 early on is silly.

 

[Orangezoo]

We won all the games we had to win. Anything more would have been a bonus. We have done that with Benny regressing, JJ not only being less than expected but performing worse than he did at ND, no Westry at all, limited front court depth that is acutely playable and a banged up Brown out of the gate. The returning sophomore class has shown improvement. We lost our two most experienced players and have a new system on both sides of the ball. If the team continues to improve and Westry plays well when he is back then the season still has lots of possibilities as we haven't botched the OOC schedule.

This whole thread is silly. Recruiting is a big part of the coaching job and we wont be able to evaluate that fairly until Coach has had 3 or 4 recruiting classes. Just like evaluating his system/results in season 1 early on is silly.

Those who wanted someone else have been clear as day they aren't happy with 6-3.

One thing that is a trend slowly forming is we are winning games in the second half. That's adjustments and coaching. We struggled to do so in Maui but overall we've been mostly a better team after the break as the season has progressed. UVA was a set back for sure. Cornell played Miami to the wire last year. We controlled the second half until late. Again not sexy but it's the right end result.

 

[CuseDream]

C.

It seems there is a big disconnect between how he wants his team to play/defend and the product on the court. That’s all coaching.

I agree. There is flashes of really really good defense. They only seem to come in spurts. The end of the Cornell is a solid example. If we could even play like that for half the game on the defense end we'd be an above avg defense team. I put that on coaching. Life or Death baby we need that intensity.

 

[grepal]

Incomplete, he gets a minimum of three years, or we should have never hired him.

 

[kmart128]

Ill give him a C+... hasnt been horribel but far off from where we envision this program. I would give him a C but will upgrade to a C+ cause i did expect some growing pains to start the seasom with all the changes. But even with the growing pains we still have been as bad as we could be

 

[djcon57]

Those who wanted someone else have been clear as day they aren't happy with 6-3.

One thing that is a trend slowly forming is we are winning games in the second half. That's adjustments and coaching. We struggled to do so in Maui but overall we've been mostly a better team after the break as the season has progressed. UVA was a set back for sure. Cornell played Miami to the wire last year. We controlled the second half until late. Again not sexy but it's the right end result.

I think it’s fair to suggest some that aren’t happy with 6-3 are fine with the record but not happy with the blowout aspect of the losses. It’s a fair point.
im not necessarily one of those people because we’re just not in the class of the 3 teams we lost to especially early in the year. but as we proceed, we need to play a really good team to at least a close game pretty soon or it’s going to get sticky

 

[jdubs30]

We lost to 3 teams with veteran rosters, excellent coaches, and legitimate chances to reach the F4. No bad losses.

Cornell, Colgate, LSU are all top 125 wins.

He did the best he could with the roster so i don’t hold it too much against him honestly.

There are some worrisome things on the court but roster construction is a big reason for that. So until Red gets his guys it’s hard to tell.

I do think he’d benefit from a Phil Martelli type. Too much Orange on the sidle lines, we need perspectives and backgrounds I think.

I think he’s a low B right now.

 

[Sbucketball]

Transfers out have been way better than transfers in.

We are getting almost zero from everyone who wasn’t part of JB’s last recruiting class.

I honestly can’t predict ACC play for us at all on one hand I see us matching up well and on the other hand I can see everyone finding their A game whenever they play us and it getting ugly. Glad we don’t see UVA again but some of the teams we play twice worry me especially Clemson and even Pitt.

Clemson and Pitt are good. Pitt is good because of Blake Hinson -- this is an example of a bad team getting a good solid (and easily obtainable) portal forward and improving. Hinson would seriously improve Syracuse last year and this year, but we've been entertaining Yawny.

 

[CardiacCuse]

C-, team is soft and that starts from the top and goes down

agreed.

would bump it a bit higher if I was using a "first year coach curve"...but I dont think doing that would make any sense.

the job is the job. experience or not.

 

[two3zone]

A lot of people wanted Cooley, Langel, and Pitino and were all realistic options looking back, but who out of them have out performed Red?

This off season will tell us a lot where we’re heading.

 

[PhatOrange]

B-

 

[Orangezoo]

A lot of people wanted Cooley, Langel, and Pitino and were all realistic options looking back, but who out of them have put performed Red?

This off season will tell us a lot where we’re heading.

Bingo. We need to see a team with his guys and see if his vision becomes more evident in that case. Next year is key.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think it’s fair to suggest some that aren’t happy with 6-3 are fine with the record but not happy with the blowout aspect of the losses. It’s a fair point.
im not necessarily one of those people because we’re just not in the class of the 3 teams we lost to especially early in the year. but as we proceed, we need to play a really good team to at least a close game pretty soon or it’s going to get sticky

If we don't get Westry back and JJ doesn't improve not sure we will be able to do that on the road but we should at the dome.

I concede to your point. I will also say we really haven't played a patsy this year that's been cannon fodder for anyone. Even UNH was within 20 to UConn. I get the lack of blowouts but I also get we have lost a game or two in the past few years to these kind of teams and so far this year we haven't.

We all saw how close we came vs Tenn and I think that still stings paired with getting tossed vs Gonzaga and then UVA.

 

[Fly Rodder]

He did the best he could with the roster so i don’t hold it too much against him honestly.

There are some worrisome things on the court but roster construction is a big reason for that. So until Red gets his guys it’s hard to tell.

I get it, I do. I want Red to succeed and I'm rooting for him. Again, he recruited and has coached these guys. They may not have been his first choices, but he had to know what he was going to be working with this season. My assumption is that he wanted JJ and Chance out of HS, didn't get them, but now he has them.

It just sucks that the rebuild didn't start (much) earlier. I get the issues, but in the time of NIL and insta-transfers, it shouldn't take 3-4 years to assemble a capable roster. And I don't want it to stretch to 14-15 years for SU to be in the top-25 again during conference play. So yeah, I'm impatient. I'm OK with that. I still have my seasons and I still donate.

We pick on Hurley, but it took him just a season to right the ship there, he already has a natty and he's top-5 again this season. Tommy Lloyd has had Arizona in the top-5 each of his first three seasons. It took Porter Moser a couple of seasons, but it looks like he has OK clicking after Lon Kruger retired. I just hope the suffering is as short as possible.

 

[Cuse181]

A lot of people wanted Cooley, Langel, and Pitino and were all realistic options looking back, but who out of them have put performed Red?

This off season will tell us a lot where we’re heading.

apples to oranges on langel. Poor guy is still at Colgate.

 

[two3zone]

apples to oranges on langel. Poor guy is still at Colgate.

They haven’t been good at all this year. I don’t think he wants to leave from what I’ve heard anyway.

 

[atlanticuse]

He’s been an okay assistant coach.
He’s not coaching like a real HC.