Red or Players, which is it

[Cuse2023]

Two top 10 teams. I’d say that’s high end.

I'd say definitely more than two... they're all better than us minus maybe four or five of them if that.

 

[Cuse181]

Florida State big man Naheem McLeod told me he’s heard from these schools since entering the portal: Syracuse, St. John’s, Villanova, Gonzaga, Arizona, Clemson, South Carolina, Wake Forest, Texas, West Virginia, Georgetown, Memphis, Pitt, Butler, Minnesota, Rutgers, Ole Miss, Temple, Kansas, Miami

A couple high end teams?

Zags, kansas, and Texas, who else was any good at that point?

 

[rrlbees]

Zags, kansas, and Texas, who else was any good at that point?

He said a couple. 2. I’d add Arizona.

 

[Brooky03]

Those two teams are on the bubble/trending in while Syracuse is imploding. In no world should wake forest EVER be more talented than Syracuse, and they should certainly never have a better coach.

a) we don’t know if they have the better coach

b) Wake Forest being one bad loss from missing the tournament is your argument that the portal works? Or… what is the argument?

 

[CU44SE]

C - it’s on both

Issues

1- coach did a poor job of reloading the roster. He knew the squad, this is how he put the team tougher. In today’s game, you can turn the roster over in 1 year. We have a lot of holes. But I can’t say I’m overly impressed in any of the guys we brought in. JJ is starting to get more comfortable, but some said he would be a top 10 transfer. He has been far from that. We have some really good recruits coming in. So the talent looks to be improving but I’m extremely dissapointed in every single transfer we brought in. More basketball to play, but it hasn’t been good.

2- the players are not good enough and we have too many individuals on the team. Mintz is only concerned with his stats. He doesn’t get teammates involved and he doesn’t play good team defense. Bell is all about himself. He only cheers on his success. Doesn’t play defense and pouts when he’s not involved. Too busy celebrating when he hits a shot and doesn’t get back on defense. Copeland and Brown are do anything guys. They will do whatever it takes to win. But too many guys on the team more concerned with personal accolades then team success.

3- I don’t think the coaching has been great. Offense is the same as the past couple years. Roll the ball out and play steet ball, iso ball. No structure at all. Prime example is the end of the Miami game. 12 seconds left Red calls a timeout and draws up a play. It ended up with a deep 3 point shot from Copeland who shoots 25% from 3. There was no plan on the play. It’s not the only example, but it’s very concerning.

4- we have gotten worse as the season has gone on. He’s either losing the team; or unable to adjust to the coaches who have tape on what Syracuse does. Teams should be getting better as the season goes on. Especially a younger team with a lot of sophomores and juniors. Unfortunately, we seem to be getting worse. Defense is getting worse and every loss is a blowout loss. We are not even competitive in our losses.

 

[CardiacCuse]

.

4- we have gotten worse as the season has gone on. He’s either losing the team; or unable to adjust to the coaches who have tape on what Syracuse does. Teams should be getting better as the season goes on. Especially a younger team with a lot of sophomores and juniors. Unfortunately, we seem to be getting worse. Defense is getting worse and every loss is a blowout loss. We are not even competitive in our losses.

yeah the staff really struggled to figure out a decent scheme for this roster

once they found one that was halfway good, they thought they were done...and have been riding it ever since...but thats not how its supposed to work

this staff has not shown much ability to scheme and come up with gameplans...yeah the roster and injuries...but this has been the case all season

 

[kcsu]

C - it’s on both

Issues

1- coach did a poor job of reloading the roster. He knew the squad, this is how he put the team tougher. In today’s game, you can turn the roster over in 1 year. We have a lot of holes. But I can’t say I’m overly impressed in any of the guys we brought in. JJ is starting to get more comfortable, but some said he would be a top 10 transfer. He has been far from that. We have some really good recruits coming in. So the talent looks to be improving but I’m extremely dissapointed in every single transfer we brought in. More basketball to play, but it hasn’t been good.

2- the players are not good enough and we have too many individuals on the team. Mintz is only concerned with his stats. He doesn’t get teammates involved and he doesn’t play good team defense. Bell is all about himself. He only cheers on his success. Doesn’t play defense and pouts when he’s not involved. Too busy celebrating when he hits a shot and doesn’t get back on defense. Copeland and Brown are do anything guys. They will do whatever it takes to win. But too many guys on the team more concerned with personal accolades then team success.

3- I don’t think the coaching has been great. Offense is the same as the past couple years. Roll the ball out and play steet ball, iso ball. No structure at all. Prime example is the end of the Miami game. 12 seconds left Red calls a timeout and draws up a play. It ended up with a deep 3 point shot from Copeland who shoots 25% from 3. There was no plan on the play. It’s not the only example, but it’s very concerning.

4- we have gotten worse as the season has gone on. He’s either losing the team; or unable to adjust to the coaches who have tape on what Syracuse does. Teams should be getting better as the season goes on. Especially a younger team with a lot of sophomores and juniors. Unfortunately, we seem to be getting worse. Defense is getting worse and every loss is a blowout loss. We are not even competitive in our losses.

Seriously.

 

[Bayside44]

Seriously.

Its ridiculous.

FWIW Mintz had multiple options on that last play. He picked the hardest one, but we won, who cares.

 

[FireballPhil]

Much of this is pretty ridiculous. Red took over late, and it had little choices, making the best out of the worst situation. People try to compare his taking over the program with other programs, but how many of those other programs had to install new systems on both offense and defense? Did he have a huge choice of players to choose from? I am highly disappointed by the blowout losses, but not really surprised. Injuries have killed multiple options. We have players-not player but plural-playing out of position out of necessity. This was always going to be a season of growth, and they have grown in many ways. They have also had many growing pains, and those are not fun. Unless Carey can grow quickly however, this will be in the NIT. As it is, they would need a deep ACC tourney-possibly needing to win it all- to get into the dance. Either way,the post season play will only help them in the future.

 

[FrancoPizza]

but how many of those other programs had to install new systems on… offense?

Where are these new offensive sets you speak of?????

 

[DilemaCuse]

Much of this is pretty ridiculous. Red took over late, and it had little choices, making the best out of the worst situation. People try to compare his taking over the program with other programs, but how many of those other programs had to install new systems on both offense and defense? Did he have a huge choice of players to choose from? I am highly disappointed by the blowout losses, but not really surprised. Injuries have killed multiple options. We have players-not player but plural-playing out of position out of necessity. This was always going to be a season of growth, and they have grown in many ways. They have also had many growing pains, and those are not fun. Unless Carey can grow quickly however, this will be in the NIT. As it is, they would need a deep ACC tourney-possibly needing to win it all- to get into the dance. Either way,the post season play will only help them in the future.

Where is the narrative that he took over late coming from? He was hired on March 9th before the portal even opened. He wasn't hired in the summer after it closed. I guess JB could have announced in Feb that he was retiring and JW announced AA would succeed prior to the season ending but I have a feeling those individuals knew what was coming by that point. He made some moves, most haven't panned out. I thought he would have made more transactions but I think the plan was to keep a certain core together. He probably realizes he should have done more of a rebuild last off season and has more work this off-season than he originally planned.

 

[Cuse181]

Much of this is pretty ridiculous. Red took over late, and it had little choices, making the best out of the worst situation. People try to compare his taking over the program with other programs, but how many of those other programs had to install new systems on both offense and defense? Did he have a huge choice of players to choose from? I am highly disappointed by the blowout losses, but not really surprised. Injuries have killed multiple options. We have players-not player but plural-playing out of position out of necessity. This was always going to be a season of growth, and they have grown in many ways. They have also had many growing pains, and those are not fun. Unless Carey can grow quickly however, this will be in the NIT. As it is, they would need a deep ACC tourney-possibly needing to win it all- to get into the dance. Either way,the post season play will only help them in the future.

He actually couldn’t have taken over much earlier, it was like what? 7 days after the season ended?

 

[DilemaCuse]

He actually couldn’t have taken over much earlier, it was like what? 7 days after the season ended?

Less than that. Announced on the plane ride home from acct. Less than 48 hours later intro press conference.

 

[FireballPhil]

There is much more taking over a program than just teaching the players a few things. And all things take time and a lot of work from a lot of people. This is why there is staff, to assist in a lot of these functions. Some of you guys act like he should just step in and all the dandelions start blooming roses. Sorry ladies and gents but it doesn't work like that. Then add in the fact that he needs to reach out to the types of players he wants to recruit versus the ones JB had them focusing on. Players in the portal entered the portal already with a destination in mind-at least the really good ones that we covet. There is plenty going against Red and the staff. Then there is restrictions on time staff can have with the team. It takes time and repetition, and add in the distractions and injuries and you complain or wonder why we are as a team now?

 

[crv1728]

It's complete dumb luck, but Freeman and Moore are perfect recruits for our biggest weaknesses this year - replacing Taylor/Benny at PF and getting a guard who can shoot. We obviously need portal help, but still pretty solid luck on our part.

Luck? You don’t think those holes in the roster were apparent to AA? I think they were.

 

[Sbucketball]

Luck? You don’t think those holes in the roster were apparent to AA? I think they were.

Sure, obviously they target certain positions in certain years when they think they’ll need it, but when Moore committed to Boeheim 2 years ago the shooting issue wasn’t as apparent and when Donnie committed a year ago they figured they might have Senior Benny and Jr Maliq at his position.

 

[CU44SE]

This new narrative of Red taking over late is total spin cycle and not even remotely close to factual. It’s really astounding what some of you will say without any truth to back it up.

He seriously may have been the first new hire of this hiring cycle, Jim was “retired/forced out” literally the same day we lost our last game on Wednesday March 8. Red was announced as the next coach later that night and had his introductory press conference March 10. The ACC tournament wasn’t even over yet and 2 days before selection Sunday and we had our new coach.

I’m sure this decision was also in the process sooner than when it was finally announced. I doubt the decision was made that day. If Red didn’t have a plan of what to do with the roster after being with this program since 2011, then that’s a bigger problem and more concerning. Portal was not even open yet. So yes, I disagree with people that say he was hired to late or his hands were tied in the portal.

 

[SUFan44]

It may turn out that he’s not a great head coach. Who knows.

But people should stop living and dying with every game in this inaugural season. Especially when he’s winning at a better clip than the last two seasons.

Vent your frustrations in the game thread and then move on. He needs more time to be evaluated. And he’s one of us, so give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Or don’t.

If we lose 7 of 8 to close the year and finish 16-15, then what?

I have seen enough to tell our offensive strategy is terrible. Our defensive effort is erratic at best.

Losing Benny Williams - he of 17 mpg, 5.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, should have no bearing on effort and running some sort of offense.

Either we get a lot better players across the board, or get 100x better at game planning/coaching kids up. Don’t forget, the staff that remained has done an abysmal job of getting guys better the last 7-8 years. The trend continues.

 

[Sherman20]

Mcleod had 20+ high majors after him in portal. At the time was definitely a big win for Red.

Also we could really use McLeod on a day like this. He wasn’t great but we don’t know how he’d develop and he gave us rim protection, rebounding and center depth.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Also we could really use McLeod on a day like this. He wasn’t great but we don’t know how he’d develop and he gave us rim protection, rebounding and center depth.

Agree. He’ll have some moments and absolutely help in games like this next couple of years behind Brown. Hope the nonsense with developing centers who won’t ever pan out like Carey and Patterson comes to and end.

 

[baggerbob]

Also we could really use McLeod on a day like this. He wasn’t great but we don’t know how he’d develop and he gave us rim protection, rebounding and center depth.

Back when JB was young and actually recruited we got very good transfers as big men. Leron Ellis came here from Kentucky.

 

[CuseCPT]

The best results are from testing one variable at a time. That said I've seen enough to conclude that its definitely the players, it remains to be seen if it is also Red.

 

[Chip]

If we lose 7 of 8 to close the year and finish 16-15, then what?

Can we maybe wait until it happens?

 

[tbonezone]

Red was an in staff hire . been here since 2016. should've already had a pretty good feel for the program and players here if he was paying attention.

 

[pwong]

Florida State big man Naheem McLeod told me he’s heard from these schools since entering the portal: Syracuse, St. John’s, Villanova, Gonzaga, Arizona, Clemson, South Carolina, Wake Forest, Texas, West Virginia, Georgetown, Memphis, Pitt, Butler, Minnesota, Rutgers, Ole Miss, Temple, Kansas, Miami

A couple high end teams?

To be fair, most of the schools who reached out wanted him as a backup and we needed a starting C.