Red or Players, which is it

[CuseBlood44]

It's his first year as a head coach, he had a Maui draw with several top 10 teams, he's trying to change the culture and style of the team, he lost a star center to a bidding war, and had to dismiss a malcontent.

We're 15-8. Did you know that we've only been better than 15-8 after 23 games one time in the past 9 seasons? That would be 16-7 in 2018-2019.

I'm gonna go ahead and give him some more time. Unreasonable as it may sound.

Change the culture? Do you watch this team? Full of a bunch of babies who complain to the refs. It’s an undisciplined squad which I think is a result of coaching …

 

[CuseBlood44]

Autry has my support. At the same time, I'm getting frustrated that he allows the lack of hustle and poor decision making at this point in the season. This has nothing to do with our lack of talent. Set the standard and if guys aren't meeting it, show them the bench.

Hey man, he’s “changing the culture” as one poster put it

 

[FireballPhil]

Just a few short months ago, everyone was clamoring about how great this team was going to be. All the players Red brought in had their own accolades. We were going to have the best back court in the nation, and the second team was going to be the second best back court in the nation. Then Jesse left, and in an emergency we got McCloud. Not Jesse, but he had flashes last year, especially year when he played against us. Same thing is happening on the football side, where look how great Fran is, without playing a game. Point is, you can bring in what they, and us, think are good players, just to have things happen. Injuries. Temper tantrums. Whatever. New systems on both ends of the floor. And some of you guys just complain and try to place blame because your expectations aren't met. Neither is mine, but support the team. Support the process. It's not Red or the players. Its Red and the players. And the fans that think they can both coach, recruit, and play the game better than those currently doing it.

 

[FrancoPizza]

And the fans that think they can both coach, recruit, and play the game better than those currently doing it.

oh for gods sake don’t put any of this on the fans. We have endured 10 seasons of irrelevance and still put 20k+ in the stands.

When we’re paid millions to build the product then we can be criticized.

 

[OrangeFoo]

You all are insane… today BC hung with Duke and Miami is hanging with UNC. This team dominated both of those teams for long stretches. This team had pretty good talent and when playing with full effort was dominating good teams. They have also gotten markedly better since the beginning of the season.

Unfortunately the most I mportant players seem to very easily lose the plot when and resort to hero ball when things go wrong. Between the immaturity of the players and the injuries I don’t know how you can blame the coaches.

The one area I can blame the coaches is the lack of a help d strategy. But given the seeming inability of these kids to stick to a game plan who knows what the coaches want to do vs what we see.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again… this roster has a lot of highly rated kids on it. Never in my wildest dreams did I think we would see the lack of mental fortitude we are seeing. It reminds me of watching my 10 year olds play when they forget everything we practiced. But in their defense they listen to me when I yell from the sidelines.

 

[swish7]

There is definitely a huge talent issue. Even Mr Magoo can see that.

The question is, is Red the man to turn it around? Does he have the ... juice, the acumen, the anything to turn it around?

Related. Do we have the boosters? Or, are we expecting the huge investment in football to lift all the other teams?

Fran clearly has the juice.

I feel like could have had an interesting story to tell were it not for FSU, & the trend we are on now.

There is still an opportunity, but now depends on a miracle in the ACCT.

Absent that, the only story he has is about a complete rebuild.

 

[BillSU]

I agree with both...

Talent level is awful and Red needs to take some of the blame in this. The issues were clear last year and those issues still remain. If it is possible for Red to dump the entire team and refill the roster I think we would be better off. We are in dire need of new leaders and new players on this team. We need a complete overhaul.

Coaching hasn't been there. Our players look clueless at times on both ends of the court. We have a team full of selfish players outside of Brown, nobody is willing to make the consistent winning plays that are needed to win at an elite level. All of our players are more worried about getting theirs, making highlight plays, and celebrating after to win games. That is coaching no discipline on this team on or off the court.

Taylor this and Taylor that. Red can't win with Taylor starting etc... IT WAS RED'S CHOICE TO BRING HIM BACK !!! So Taylor starting is Red's fault he shouldn't even be on the team.

Set in STONE!

 

[FireballPhil]

oh for gods sake don’t put any of this on the fans. We have endured 10 seasons of irrelevance and still put 20k+ in the stands.

When we’re paid millions to build the product then we can be criticized.

It is 110% on the fans. Well maybe not that much but still. Setting your own expectations and when things don't pan out the way you want them too, you blame everyone else. How about just admitting you, and I, overestimated the strength of the incoming players? How about we never expected out of 4 centers that none of them could give even a few serviceable minutes? You can still support the team, even though your own feelings are hurt.The team and the coaches are doing the best they can. Is it enough to meet yours, and mine, lofty expectations? No. But there are 300+ other programs in the same boat. That haven't had as good of success over the past 10+ years as we have. But you know what, if it makes you feel more like a man to complain about a 18 or 19 year old not living up to your expectations, knock yourself out.

 

[SWC75]

Agree. He’ll have some moments and absolutely help in games like this next couple of years behind Brown. Hope the nonsense with developing centers who won’t ever pan out like Carey and Patterson comes to and end.

Amazing. You already know that Carey and Patterson "won't pan out".

 

[NorSyr66]

Just a few short months ago, everyone was clamoring about how great this team was going to be. All the players Red brought in had their own accolades. We were going to have the best back court in the nation, and the second team was going to be the second best back court in the nation. Then Jesse left, and in an emergency we got McCloud. Not Jesse, but he had flashes last year, especially year when he played against us. Same thing is happening on the football side, where look how great Fran is, without playing a game. Point is, you can bring in what they, and us, think are good players, just to have things happen. Injuries. Temper tantrums. Whatever. New systems on both ends of the floor. And some of you guys just complain and try to place blame because your expectations aren't met. Neither is mine, but support the team. Support the process. It's not Red or the players. Its Red and the players. And the fans that think they can both coach, recruit, and play the game better than those currently doing it.

...wow!! Talk about a negative Nellie. If we didn't support the team, do you really think we would be here?

 

[MSOrange]

...wow!! Talk about a negative Nellie. If we didn't support the team, do you really think we would be here?

 

[CuseTG2003]

Puddy’s the best

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Amazing. You already know that Carey and Patterson "won't pan out".

Carey rebounds worse than Bell. Even if the rest of his game improves to ACC level that’s the one weakness we can’t live with.

But they are in the program and we can’t play 13 players and you don’t stash guards and keep them around so who knows maybe we live with them as 3/4 Center after Naheem and they improve. Just means we can’t sign more of those types.

 

[SWC75]

Carey rebounds worse than Bell. Even if the rest of his game improves to ACC level that’s the one weakness we can’t live with.

But they are in the program and we can’t play 13 players and you don’t stash guards and keep them around so who knows maybe we live with them as 3/4 Center after Naheem and they improve. Just means we can’t sign more of those types.

Per 40 minutes, Carey averages 7.9 rebounds, Bell 3.2

 

[Niastri]

The binary question is too simplistic in my opinion. I think a sliding scale from 1-5 between the two extremes would have been better. With the scale being 1: All Players Fault to 5: All Red Autry's Fault, I think I'd put my answer at 2.

A major criticism of Red in this thread had been roster construction. Look at the roster to start the season:

5: McLeod, Hima
4-5: Brown, Carey
4: Williams
3-4: Taylor
3: Bell
2-3: Westry, Copeland
2: Cuffe
1-2: Mintz, Starling

With Patterson locked into a redshirt because of the depth of guys in front of him.

The injuries to McLeod and Hima perhaps should have been anticipated, but season or career ending injuries just can't really be accounted for... To the extent that they can be, Red had really good big man depth. To start the season there were six players who can man those two positions, with four players that can play the 4, and four that could play the 5. Included in those players were McLeod, a very high upside transfer (at least defensively), Brown (our best player this year) and Williams (our highest potential player, whom had very high expectations). Those guys would have had Carey, Taylor and Hima to give them a break... But ultimately, if each of those three players had reached their 75% of expectation, they'd have taken all the minutes because taking them out in a close game world have been stupid. So they'd have each averaged 28 minutes a game.

Injuries and poor behavior decimated the best three big men, with only Brown still around. Taylor wasn't expected to be a starter alongside Bell, he was supposed to be the backup at the 3 and the 4. Williams getting suspended pushed him into a role he wasn't supposed to be playing. Hima and Carey are about what we'd expect, limited physically and not ready for prime time respectively.

So that brings us to the other forward spot. Bell is arguably our best 3pt shooter coming into the season (although people seem to forget Williams shot a higher percentage), and had physical potential second only to Williams. He want going to be beaten out unless Westry was top of his game to start the season. The plan was Bell, with Westry, Taylor and Copeland pushing him for minutes.

Westry being injured and Taylor being forced to the 4 has given Copeland the opening he needed, but we wanted him to be playing limited forward minutes, not become a few facto starter.

Copeland, Westry and Cuffe should have been fine backing up Mintz and Starling, but again, injuries pushed guys into different positions or onto the bench.

What we've seen the last few games is the result of us playing severely undersized, with a 4 playing center, a guy recruited to be a 2-3 playing PF, and a guy recruited to be a 1-2 playing small forward.

We're getting crushed in rebounding, but are still in games despite enormous size deficiencies.

A responsible and effective Williams would have made this team so much better, and his loss due to his choices can't be blamed on Red. JB didn't do much better dealing with Williams...

That problem was compounded by our only two available centers being hurt.

Imagine a lineup with a healthy McLeod, Brown, a Williams that reached expectations, Starling and Mintz.

That team is so much better than what we have now.