Red Season 1 Now a Bust

[OrlandoCuse]

maybe just take the L and acknowledge you posted out of knee-jerk anger/emotion (and booze?)

Funny half the board agrees with what I posted. The other half are just angry because they know the team has been wildly inconsistent and the NCAAT was reachable this year.

No L here. Not remotely close. 15 page threads aren’t losses.

 

[pearl31]

15 page threads aren’t losses.

lol finally we have a barometer!

half the board huh?

 

[Day2]

Funny half the board agrees with what I posted. The other half are just angry because they know the team has been wildly inconsistent and the NCAAT was reachable this year.

No L here. Not remotely close. 15 page threads aren’t losses.

You sure about that?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

These coaches played a role in the injuries to Hima, Westry, McLeod, & Carey, as well as the behavior of Benny Williams resulting in his dismissal?

red Should have known!!! It’s his team !!! Bust!

 

[Scott11]

The thread title is brutal and hopefully the mods will lock the thread.

 

[kingtidge]

Funny half the board agrees with what I posted. The other half are just angry because they know the team has been wildly inconsistent and the NCAAT was reachable this year.

No L here. Not remotely close. 15 page threads aren’t losses.

You want a real busted flush??

Here ya go...

Georgetown

8-18 overall

1-14 in conference.

Georgetown still REALLY sucks.

 

[SwagSocks]

It is ranked as the 5th hardest schedule on several sites

Our strength of schedule is ranked 21st by Kenpom. It's been a very tough schedule.

OOC Opponents for other ACC teams:

UNC- Nova, UCONN, UK, Oklahoma
DUKE- ARZ, Mich st, Baylor
UVA- FLA, WISC, Tex A&M, Memphis
CLEM- Alabama, Boise St, TCU, South Carolina
NC ST- BYU, Ole Miss, TENN
VT- South Carolina, Boise ST, IOWA st, FAU, Auburn

I would argue all these teams had tougher OOC than Cuse's gauntlet of : TENN, Zags and Oregon

This is just ACC teams

 

[Bayside44]

Funny half the board agrees with what I posted. The other half are just angry because they know the team has been wildly inconsistent and the NCAAT was reachable this year.

No L here. Not remotely close. 15 page threads aren’t losses.

Not angry, just disagree with the premise.

 

[Knicks411]

Ken pom currently ranks our SOS 21st. Non con was 87, so the non con isnt doing much heavy lifting. It'll probably drop a little because they have ND and Louisville coming up. Our strength of record is 47, I tend to like strength of record more than just a straight SOS, strength of record basically estimates how well a top 25ish team would do against your schedule. (Essentially SOS is going to see a difference between playing say the 175th team and 325th team whereas SOR is going to say a top 25 team should beat either one so theres not much of a difference. It's harder to game an SOR system)

Most of the hardest schedules come from teams in the power 5 (i can still use that descriptor this season)

 

[Red2003]

OOC Opponents for other ACC teams:

UNC- Nova, UCONN, UK, Oklahoma
DUKE- ARZ, Mich st, Baylor
UVA- FLA, WISC, Tex A&M, Memphis
CLEM- Alabama, Boise St, TCU, South Carolina
NC ST- BYU, Ole Miss, TENN
VT- South Carolina, Boise ST, IOWA st, FAU, Auburn

I would argue all these teams had tougher OOC than Cuse's gauntlet of : TENN, Zags and Oregon

This is just ACC teams

Nice cherry picking. How about this one NC state played 8 Q4 cupcakes at home.

The worst team we played all year was Canisius ~260 in the net. NC state played 5 teams worst than canisius. 2 teams in the 350’s. You’ll see something similar across a lot of the Big12.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Our strength of schedule is ranked 21st by Kenpom. It's been a very tough schedule.

It's a moronic take. No need to encourage the troll.

 

[crv1728]

Your "alienated the entire team" sentiment is simply your opinion, you can not provide any proof to ascertain such as fact. Who really knows?

What is a fact, is that Red decided to take the risk of keeping him on the roster being fully aware of his behavioral issues and patterns. You want to call that fact as being completely amiss of any degree of culpability relative to his roster, so be it. I won't call your view ridiculous, I'll just agree to disagree.

So what did Benny actually do to deserve to be kicked off the team before the season began? What completely egregious act did Benny commit last year?

 

[bnoro]

Your "alienated the entire team" sentiment is simply your opinion, you can not provide any proof to ascertain such as fact. Who really knows?

What is a fact, is that Red decided to take the risk of keeping him on the roster being fully aware of his behavioral issues and patterns. You want to call that fact as being completely amiss of any degree of culpability relative to his roster, so be it. I won't call your view ridiculous, I'll just agree to disagree.

Please provide the "proof to ascertain" that Benny had "behavioral issues and patterns" going into this season that should have resulted in his dismissal.

I do like your SAT/thesaurus words though. Very impressive to try and make it look like you have a real point here, rather than arguing in bad faith.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The fans would have flipped their sht if Red booted Benny before the year. 80% of this place blamed JB for all his problems until Red took over.

 

[Chip]

red Should have known!!! It’s his team !!! Bust!

This place is a zoo.

And not the good kind, like at Manley.

 

[orangecuse]

So what did Benny actually do to deserve to be kicked off the team before the season began? What completely egregious act did Benny commit last year?

I don't know, do you? What I said was there were issues in his past relative to his behavior, etc. The JB presser about Benny taking a personal day, etc. Who knows what else was going on behind the scenes? However, IMO, it's likely there were other signs, indicators, etc. that the staff was aware of. And, as often the case, a pattern ensued. Although, one can never be certain whether there will be any change in variation, escalation, etc.

On an aside, I don't know if '80% of the board' thought all of Benny's problems were JB related as another poster stated, or that it's simply for emphasis. However, the post is indicative that there were problems out there.

FWIW, my initial engagment in this particular topic was simply taking a position that the "set of circumstances," in my opinion, wasn't one in which the current head coach hadn't any contribution to it. IMO, Red took a calculated risk with his roster, etc. and it didn't turn out good this season in particular with Westry and Benny.

 

[orangecuse]

Please provide the "proof to ascertain" that Benny had "behavioral issues and patterns" going into this season that should have resulted in his dismissal.

I do like your SAT/thesaurus words though. Very impressive to try and make it look like you have a real point here, rather than arguing in bad faith.

Your SAT/thesaurus remark is comical.

Here’s an SAT/thesaurus word for you, plagiarize. What you basically did by knowingly using CRV's thoughts above and implying that they came across as your own.

Talk about arguing in bad faith.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't know, do you? What I said was that there were issues in his past relative to his behavior, etc. The JB presser about Benny taking a personal day, etc. Who knows what else was going on behind the scenes? However, IMO, it's likely there were other signs, indicators, etc. that the staff was aware of. And, as often the case, a pattern ensued. Although, one can never be certain whether there will be any change in variation, escalation, etc.

On an aside, I don't know if '80% of the board' thought all of Benny's problems were JB related as another poster stated, or that it's simply for emphasis. However, the post is indicative that there were problems out there.

FWIW, my initial engagment in this particular topic was simply taking a position that the "set of circumstances," in my opinion, wasn't one in which the current head coach hadn't any contribution to it. IMO, Red took a calculated risk with his roster, etc. and it didn't turn out good this season in particular with Westry and Benny.

This is insane. What's the risk with Westry? Guys get hurt all the time and miss time, it's a sport.

Michael Jordan broke his foot, somehow it worked out.

 

[orangecuse]

This is insane. What's the risk with Westry? Guys get hurt all the time and miss time, it's a sport.

Michael Jordan broke his foot, somehow it worked out.

I understand. Again, my initial remark pertaining to this specific debate was simply not buying the "all in" premise that the "set of circumstances" was completely out of anyone's hand so to speak.

IMO, Westry, coming off a major injury and reconstruction, etc. there was no guarantee that he'd be able to play this season, or at least play significant/meaningful minutes and contributing. And, if Red was counting on him to be a major contributor, then the assumed risk he took there is on him as the assembler of his roster. That's all.

 

[Orangezoo]

Funny half the board agrees with what I posted. The other half are just angry because they know the team has been wildly inconsistent and the NCAAT was reachable this year.

No L here. Not remotely close. 15 page threads aren’t losses.

It was reachable on paper before injuries and the toss ups/unknowns mostly went the wrong way. To me that ultimately makes the premise severely flawed. If you knew McLeod would be injured and Hima too, JJs shot would take two months to come around, Benny would go the way he did, Westry would never play and Judah would not make the jump expected would you have expected the tournament still back in August? Honest question because I think most would have said this will be an uphill climb to win any games with this schedule let alone get to possibly 20.

 

[ar inj]

I would argue all these teams had tougher OOC than Cuse's gauntlet of : TENN, Zags and Oregon

UNC- Nova (330), UCONN (359), Tenn H (357) UK (339), Oklahoma (361) = 1,746/5 350 (2-3)
DUKE- ARZ (360) H, Mich. St (340), Arkansas (241) A, Baylor (350) = 1,291/4 323 (2-2)
UVA- FLA (332), WISC (342), Tex. A&M (314), Memphis A (281) = 1,269/4 318 (2-2)
CLEM- Alabama (358) A, Boise St (328) H, TCU (364), South Carolina H (306) = 1,356/4 339 (4-0)
NC ST- BYU (352), Ole Miss (293) A, TENN (357), Vandy (131) = 1,133/4 283 (1-3)
VT- South Carolina (306), Boise ST (328), IOWA St (355), FAU (330), Auburn (356) A = 1,675/5 335 (2-3)

Cuse's gauntlet of : TENN (357), Zags (341), LSU H (278) and Oregon (299) = 1,275/4 319 (2-2)

I assigned every opponent a ranking based on its current net (i.e., #1 in NET = 362 points) and added a game to SU, Duke and NCSt to give everyone at least 4 games.

To my eye, based on NET math, UNC clearly had the hardest OOC schedule and VT was probably second hardest given the 5 games listed.

SU's schedule was clearly harder than NCSt and very comparable to UVA but they did have an away game and SU had a home game. Like lots of things w/ the SU program, the team had a tougher than what we fans are accustomed to but it still does not stack up to all SU's conference mates.

That said, KenPom disagrees with me and ranks OOC schedules as follows:

12 UNC
21 SU
30 Clemson
42 VaTech
70 WF
73 Duke
82 NCSt
83 UVA

 

[Knicks411]

UNC- Nova (330), UCONN (359), Tenn H (357) UK (339), Oklahoma (361) = 1,746/5 350 (2-3)
DUKE- ARZ (360) H, Mich. St (340), Arkansas (241) A, Baylor (350) = 1,291/4 323 (2-2)
UVA- FLA (332), WISC (342), Tex. A&M (314), Memphis A (281) = 1,269/4 318 (2-2)
CLEM- Alabama (358) A, Boise St (328) H, TCU (364), South Carolina H (306) = 1,356/4 339 (4-0)
NC ST- BYU (352), Ole Miss (293) A, TENN (357), Vandy (131) = 1,133/4 283 (1-3)
VT- South Carolina (306), Boise ST (328), IOWA St (355), FAU (330), Auburn (356) A = 1,675/5 335 (2-3)

Cuse's gauntlet of : TENN (357), Zags (341), LSU H (278) and Oregon (299) = 1,275/4 319 (2-2)

I assigned every opponent a ranking based on its current net (i.e., #1 in NET = 362 points) and added a game to SU, Duke and NCSt to give everyone at least 4 games.

To my eye, based on NET math, UNC clearly had the hardest OOC schedule and VT was probably second hardest given the 5 games listed.

SU's schedule was clearly harder than NCSt and very comparable to UVA but they did have an away game and SU had a home game. Like lots of things w/ the SU program, the team had a tougher than what we fans are accustomed to but it still does not stack up to all SU's conference mates.

That said, KenPom disagrees with me and ranks OOC schedules as follows:

12 UNC
21 SU
30 Clemson
42 VaTech
70 WF
73 Duke
82 NCSt
83 UVA

I think our OOC rating is helped by a few factors 1) the three toughest teams were all neutral, no home games, and 2) limiting the really bad opponents. I'm assuming KP just takes a weighted average (presumably adjusted for location) of your opponents, so if you played say, the 10th best team and the 200th best team, that would be the equivalent of playing the 105th best team twice (I get it doesnt work exactly like that, it's based on the EM, not the ordinal ranking but bear with me) but to me the first schedule is more likely to result in losses since you have one very tough game and one meh game.

Actually another factor I didnt mention is that the higher up you go in the ratings, the larger the difference between teams is. For instance, Auburn is the 5th best team at KP, with an EM of +26.37, if you compare them to the team 10 spots (picking a number randomly) below them, they are 5.23 points better than BYU. BYU is only 2.44 points better than the team 10 spots below them, who is only 1.68 points better than the team 10 spots below them, etc. From spots 50-150, the average difference between a team and the team 10 spots below them is 1.29 points per 100. That pokes a bit of a hole in my argument about avoiding really bad teams but I am not a coward so I wont delete anything I wrote above)

Also those SOS you are citing are overall SOS, non-con SOS we are at 86.

 

[GoSU96]

This place is a zoo.

And not the good kind, like at Manley.

It’s a zoo in a mall

 

[ar inj]

Also those SOS you are citing are overall SOS, non-con SOS we are at 86.

Thanks. I did not realize that. Agree w/ the rest of your post

 

[SwagSocks]

It's a moronic take. No need to encourage the troll.

Kick rocks, take off your orange colored glasses and then kick some more rocks.
My take is more than valid. Not on this board to troll either