Red Season 1 Now a Bust

[BillSU]

Barring a miracle in the next 3 weeks, Red’s season 1 is looking like a bust, or at least underperformed against fans’ expectations.

Looking ahead to next year I believe he must make the NCAA Tournament. The program can’t continue to produce mediocre results year after year. We’re slipping as a national program. Falling with the likes of Indiana and Georgetown into the oblivion of has-beens.

Question is, do you give Red a third year if he fails to make the NCAAT next year?

Even if he gets a third year, if he doesn’t make the tournament by his third year there’s no chance he gets a 4th.

You have to give Red a chance – more than one. He inherited this team. He’s finally got players coming in who are HIS picks. So far, both 4 star & highly rated, albeit freshman.

The Portal is where he needs to go to work – get experienced players used to playing at a high level. Whatever positions he feel he needs.

Yes he should get 3 years. First year after a legend. Give Red a little slack.

 

[syrBossHogg]

That's a good point (and I also agree with the context point you make below that) but one counter is I would say is that Red has no head coaching experience; you would think a prospective good coach who would be the next hire might think he would get a little longer leash than a guy who never was a head coach before and just might be over his head. (the prospective hire also might know he's a good coach and he would get things turned around quickly.

It is a good point though, but I also dont think you can keep a coach around you think cant handle the job for another year or two just because it might make the job look worse.

I'm speaking entirely hypothetically here I am not saying Red for sure is over his head or anything.

That's also a fair point, but I think it sends a bad message moving on quickly from someone who played at SU and was an assistant for a long time. I think you have to show a little patience. But I do agree that the heat should be turned up for year 3 if the team isn't in the tourney next year.

 

[realorange]

It was impressive to see Red on several occasions get together with the other coaches to make a decision. For me, this was a way for Red to maintain his composure as much as he was trying to get the team to do likewise.

 

[BillSU]

With the hardest schedule in prob over a decade. But yeah he’s got no clue what he’s doing

He has every clue about what he's doing he just doesn't have the players he want, yet.

 

[Bulldog04]

He has every clue about what he's doing he just doesn't have the players he want, yet.

I forgot the italics for my sarcasm font bill! Considering what he’s gone through, not having westry, losing mccleod, Taylor losing his 3 ball, this has been a well above average coaching job by red. There were zero steps backwards this year and people need to realize how hard that actually is

 

[kcsu]

I forgot the italics for my sarcasm font bill! Considering what he’s gone through, not having westry, losing mccleod, Taylor losing his 3 ball, this has been a well above average coaching job by red. There were zero steps backwards this year and people need to realize how hard that actually is

Agreed. He's done an excellent job.

 

[grepal]

Not tonight!

I could have used a little less drama the last 10 minutes or so. My heart is not getting any younger.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm continually surprised by the fans who always pipe up about what expectations should've been this year. Anyone with an ounce of insight could've told them to expect a transition year with a few w t wins and likely more w t losses. And guess what...that's pretty much what we've had so far.
The Benny Saga has ended, thank goodness. Injuries to most of our frontline, and never having Chance suit up, yet here we are w/ another winning season, and fighting through the adversity.
That's not "settling", that's called reality. Under these circumstances, Red has had a very good first year and has shown signs of being a bigger success moving forward.
Those fans calling for Red's head are just being silly, IMO. This team, short-handed and all, can literally beat anyone when running on all cylinders. Fantasy expectations by any other name, are still fantasy. JMHO

 

[pearl31]

This thread has taken on a life of its own. Many posters taking direct shots at me for even starting this thread.

I’m happy I started this thread. We need to have high standards and expectations for this program. It’s slipped significantly over the past decade. Many fans’ expectations have slipped as well. It happened with football over the past 25 years. I have no desire to see the same thing happen to basketball. This program needs to rise back to annual Top 25 rankings and making the tournament 4 out of every 5 years. Not making the NCAA should be considered a “bust” season.

I struggle to understand why some posters don’t want to accept those standards. If you are attacking me for even raising the topic, deep down you know what I posted is true. Feel free to post a counter argument (which many have), but if all you come back with is a personal attack it means I’m right.

Raise your game folks, raise your game.

maybe just take the L and acknowledge you posted out of knee-jerk anger/emotion (and booze?)

 

[grepal]

I'm continually surprised by the fans who always pipe up about what expectations should've been this year. Anyone with an ounce of insight could've told them to expect a transition year with a few w t wins and likely more w t losses. And guess what...that's pretty much what we've had so far.
The Benny Saga has ended, thank goodness. Injuries to most of our frontline, and never having Chance suit up, yet here we are w/ another winning season, and fighting through the adversity.
That's not "settling", that's call reality. Under these circumstances, Red has had a very good first year and has shown signs of being a bigger success moving forward.
Those fans calling for Red's head are just being silly, IMO. This team, short-handed and all, can literally beat anyone when running on all cylinders. Fantasy expectations by any other name, are still fantasy. JMHO

No losses to teams like Bryant. Afew bad blowout losses and some decent wins. With the frontcourt issues and lack of depth there we are actually doing OK. I think our guys are improving as a team but a 4 or 5 year senior who plays a lot would be a help. Brown, Cope, JJ and Bell are better than last year and it isnot close. Judah is still a very good playt, I am surprised that his 3 point shot is not somewhat better, Taylor's struggles but he is a two guard forced to play a forward. If we add a couple of bigs in the portal he would need to get much better to play next year.

 

[bnoro]

This thread has taken on a life of its own. Many posters taking direct shots at me for even starting this thread.

I’m happy I started this thread. We need to have high standards and expectations for this program. It’s slipped significantly over the past decade. Many fans’ expectations have slipped as well. It happened with football over the past 25 years. I have no desire to see the same thing happen to basketball. This program needs to rise back to annual Top 25 rankings and making the tournament 4 out of every 5 years. Not making the NCAA should be considered a “bust” season.

I struggle to understand why some posters don’t want to accept those standards. If you are attacking me for even raising the topic, deep down you know what I posted is true. Feel free to post a counter argument (which many have), but if all you come back with is a personal attack it means I’m right.

Raise your game folks, raise your game.

I struggle to understand what exactly posters like you were expecting this year.

We could've hired Coach K, Roy Williams, and Jay Wright and it wouldn't have changed the actual players on the floor.

Red having us even remotely around the bubble discussion is a success in year one. He knocked off a top 10 opponent. He showed he can get the team to bounce back from tough losses. He's shown he can make the most of the hand he's dealt.

Have there been some bumps in the road, absolutely. But saying you're pleased with year one of Red even if we don't make the tournament doesn't mean we're "not having high standards".

 

[realorange]

Or we could have brought in Pitino who just publicly trashed his whole team, many by name. Remember that he brought several of those players with him.

 

[Orangezoo]

McLeod out for year ( and we expected to have Jesse as did Red), Westry unavailable, JJs development and rebuild of his shot taking 1/3 of the season, Benny being given every chance to excel and failing, Hima not healthy and really ready and Carey still a ways off. That’s a lot of dents in the vehicle you had such high expectations for.

We can go back to the summer and re read the discussions. It was consensus that we needed the talent and depth to be good this year and at minimum a tourney team. If you knew the above in those discussions not a single person would be predicting even a winning season given the schedule.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I struggle to understand what exactly posters like you were expecting this year.

We could've hired Coach K, Roy Williams, and Jay Wright and it wouldn't have changed the actual players on the floor.

Red having us even remotely around the bubble discussion is a success in year one. He knocked off a top 10 opponent. He showed he can get the team to bounce back from tough losses. He's shown he can make the most of the hand he's dealt.

Have there been some bumps in the road, absolutely. But saying you're pleased with year one of Red even if we don't make the tournament doesn't mean we're "not having high standards".

well said. He's a first time head coach taking over for a head coach who has been here what 48 years? he also inherited a program that was left in really rough shape. Let him continue to flip the roster and get his kids in there, kids that never even played or were recruited while Boeheim was there. There is a lot of work to do and it's going to be a process. He's now 17-10 and doing just fine. There have been some rough games and some really great ones. Give the guy at least 3 years before we get too carried away.

Red has been solid so far and will only get better. First time head coaches do learn on the job and they do get better as well at least the ones that stick around.

I just think people get carried away with all of it. He's getting at a minimum 3 years if not 4 so I would just relax and he very well could get 20 regular season win. You aren't going to scheme or coach your way out of a seriously flawed roster either. Game isn't played on a computer.

 

[Cuse181]

I struggle to understand what exactly posters like you were expecting this year.

We could've hired Coach K, Roy Williams, and Jay Wright and it wouldn't have changed the actual players on the floor.

Red having us even remotely around the bubble discussion is a success in year one. He knocked off a top 10 opponent. He showed he can get the team to bounce back from tough losses. He's shown he can make the most of the hand he's dealt.

Have there been some bumps in the road, absolutely. But saying you're pleased with year one of Red even if we don't make the tournament doesn't mean we're "not having high standards".

Asinine comparison, those guys would not have kept 75% of these guys.

 

[grepal]

well said. He's a first time head coach taking over for a head coach who has been here what 48 years? he also inherited a program that was left in really rough shape. Let him continue to flip the roster and get his kids in there, kids that never even played or were recruited while Boeheim was there. There is a lot of work to do and it's going to be a process. He's now 17-10 and doing just fine. There have been some rough games and some really great ones. Give the guy at least 3 years before we get too carried away.

Red has been solid so far and will only get better. First time head coaches do learn on the job and they do get better as well at least the ones that stick around.

I just think people get carried away with all of it. He's getting at a minimum 3 years if not 4 so I would just relax and he very well could get 20 regular season win. You aren't going to scheme or coach your way out of a seriously flawed roster either. Game isn't played on a computer.

Just take a look at Coach K and his first year. I keep saying we had the potential to be Louisville or Pitt bad under Red comparing his year one to Payne and Capels year one. We need patience. JAB did not start his coaching career in the ACC.

 

[bnoro]

Asinine comparison, those guys would not have kept 75% of these guys.

Way to miss the point!

 

[cusefan88]

Red has an outside chance at a 20-win regular season which hasn't happened in 5 years. Not to mention the team has played a tough schedule this year too.

 

[orange79]

Way to miss the point!

It's what he does.

 

[OrangeinDC]

McLeod out for year ( and we expected to have Jesse as did Red), Westry unavailable, JJs development and rebuild of his shot taking 1/3 of the season, Benny being given every chance to excel and failing, Hima not healthy and really ready and Carey still a ways off. That’s a lot of dents in the vehicle you had such high expectations for.

We can go back to the summer and re read the discussions. It was consensus that we needed the talent and depth to be good this year and at minimum a tourney team. If you knew the above in those discussions not a single person would be predicting even a winning season given the schedule.

Can I add another... JJ is learning how to play the 1 this season. Totally different thought process from playing the 2.

 

[Orangezoo]

Asinine comparison, those guys would not have kept 75% of these guys.

Wrong. Outside K none of the others have turned over entire rosters like that and even K hasn’t to that extent when you look back.

Look at your buddy Pitino.. how’s things going at St John’s?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Asinine comparison, those guys would not have kept 75% of these guys.

either did Pitino and he's won a few games a long the way. How is that working out? How is Ed Cooley making out at Georgetown? Did he forget how to coach as well?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Wrong. Outside K none of the others have turned over entire rosters like that and even K hasn’t to that extent when you look back.

Look at your buddy Pitino.. how’s things going at St John’s?

Sorry should have continued to read down the thread but agree 100%. The fact that people think you just flip a 12 man roster and come in first year and win like a cohesive unit is kind of crazy. There is something to roster building and getting buy in as a team as well, not just cobbing together some talent. Again, this isn't a video game

 

[Orangezoo]

Sorry should have continued to read down the thread but agree 100%. The fact that people think you just flip a 12 man roster and come in first year and win like a cohesive unit is kind of crazy. There is something to roster building and getting buy in as a team as well, not just cobbing together some talent. Again, this isn't a video game

All good no harm in piling on with an important point

 

[jsshap]

This thread has taken on a life of its own. Many posters taking direct shots at me for even starting this thread.

I’m happy I started this thread. We need to have high standards and expectations for this program. It’s slipped significantly over the past decade. Many fans’ expectations have slipped as well. It happened with football over the past 25 years. I have no desire to see the same thing happen to basketball. This program needs to rise back to annual Top 25 rankings and making the tournament 4 out of every 5 years. Not making the NCAA should be considered a “bust” season.

I struggle to understand why some posters don’t want to accept those standards. If you are attacking me for even raising the topic, deep down you know what I posted is true. Feel free to post a counter argument (which many have), but if all you come back with is a personal attack it means I’m right.

Raise your game folks, raise your game.

It's hilarious that some fans apparently think they are doing their part to help the program by holding it to "high standards and expectations." On a fan message board no less. If you have optimism or look for bright spots in the midst of a crappy era for the program, you are soft and part of the problem. It's not just you, seems many others think same thing that comes up a lot, sometimes in much more absurd posts than this one. It's not a personal attack just an observation that such a point of view is completely delusional.