Red Season 1 Now a Bust

[OrlandoCuse]

1- Some people acting like this is the 1980’s and every team has 4 and 5 year players. You shouldn’t need 5 years nowadays with the transfer portal to assemble your team and style. So let’s not pretend like Red should be given 5 years to lay a foundation here. We are behind the 8 ball because Jim was alllowed to coast the last several years. Red has 3 years max. Next year has to be tournament. Give him a mulligan on this year. But make no mistake. He could have run off some players or been more aggressive in the portal to assemble the team he wanted. Instead, he choose this team. For better or worse, this is his squad for this year that he put together.

2- The Half court offense is just miserable. No plan other than roll the ball out. To me, that is most worrisome. If we are not getting turnovers and run outs. We cannot consistently run a half court set. Not to mention I have not seen a play coming out of a dead ball or timeout that has worked yet. He’s still learning. And part of this I think is on Jim because he ran this same type of offense and he never let or allowed the assistant coaches to coach.

Question- I haven’t looked it up, but who is the best head coach that Jim developed on his staff. Pitino was here for 1 year. Hopkins has been a bust, granted he moved out west where he lost most of his contacts. Murphy made the tournament once. Is it Tim Welsh? Honest question. Usually great coaches have a coaching tree they leave behind. Maybe that’s more of a football thing. But I’m not sure Jim really set up his assistants to be successful coaches down the line. I very well could be wrong here. Just nothing is coming to mind off the top of my head.

Very few JB disciples went on to have successful head coaching careers. I think Welsh and Louis Orr making the first round of the NCAAT are about as good as it gets (sans Pitino).

Ralph Willard maybe was the most successful, but he was only at Syracuse for 1 year.

 

[GHLF]

Barring a miracle in the next 3 weeks, Red’s season 1 is looking like a bust, or at least underperformed against fans’ expectations.

Looking ahead to next year I believe he must make the NCAA Tournament. The program can’t continue to produce mediocre results year after year. We’re slipping as a national program. Falling with the likes of Indiana and Georgetown into the oblivion of has-beens.

Question is, do you give Red a third year if he fails to make the NCAAT next year?

Even if he gets a third year, if he doesn’t make the tournament by his third year there’s no chance he gets a 4th.

Utterly absurd, literally

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Utterly absurd, literally

Lol. Must be a relative new fan.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Pretty much spot on, the only caveat I would have is I am not sure now if Bell will be here next year. I was leaning toward he will be, but seeing his attitude in today's game and his attitude toward Red, I am wondering if he will even finish the season. That being said, Red didn't sit him so maybe it wasn't as bad as it looked.

He's a streaky 3 point shooter. But he only plays the rest of the game for 5 or 10 minutes every game.

 

[blust2i3d4]

Barring a miracle in the next 3 weeks, Red’s season 1 is looking like a bust, or at least underperformed against fans’ expectations.

Looking ahead to next year I believe he must make the NCAA Tournament. The program can’t continue to produce mediocre results year after year. We’re slipping as a national program. Falling with the likes of Indiana and Georgetown into the oblivion of has-beens.

Question is, do you give Red a third year if he fails to make the NCAAT next year?

Even if he gets a third year, if he doesn’t make the tournament by his third year there’s no chance he gets a 4th.

Not a total bust. At least we won the three most important games: Pttx2 and GTown. In the late JB era, we often suffered unexpected losses from them.

 

[IthacaMatt]

1- Some people acting like this is the 1980’s and every team has 4 and 5 year players. You shouldn’t need 5 years nowadays with the transfer portal to assemble your team and style. So let’s not pretend like Red should be given 5 years to lay a foundation here. We are behind the 8 ball because Jim was alllowed to coast the last several years. Red has 3 years max. Next year has to be tournament. Give him a mulligan on this year. But make no mistake. He could have run off some players or been more aggressive in the portal to assemble the team he wanted. Instead, he choose this team. For better or worse, this is his squad for this year that he put together.

Many of the better teams do happen to have upperclassmen. No, not everybody stays 4 years anymore, but even teams like Kansas and UNC always seem to have upper classmen.

2- The Half court offense is just miserable. No plan other than roll the ball out. To me, that is most worrisome. If we are not getting turnovers and run outs. We cannot consistently run a half court set. Not to mention I have not seen a play coming out of a dead ball or timeout that has worked yet. He’s still learning. And part of this I think is on Jim because he ran this same type of offense and he never let or allowed the assistant coaches to coach.

Agree with this. I watched several games tonight, and saw a lot more screens, back screens, back door cuts, baseline blocks to open a guy for the lob feed. We have moved more on offense from game to game, but with Taylor out there, it's just sad to watch, his utter lack of confidence. You can see him "aiming" his shots, and when you start to do that instead of just "feel" the shot, you're done.

Question- I haven’t looked it up, but who is the best head coach that Jim developed on his staff. Pitino was here for 1 year. Hopkins has been a bust, granted he moved out west where he lost most of his contacts. Murphy made the tournament once. Is it Tim Welsh? Honest question. Usually great coaches have a coaching tree they leave behind. Maybe that’s more of a football thing. But I’m not sure Jim really set up his assistants to be successful coaches down the line. I very well could be wrong here. Just nothing is coming to mind off the top of my head.

Didn't Brendan Malone, Troy Weaver, Tim Welsh, Louie Orr, Rob Murphy, Wayne Morgan and a couple others land head coaching gigs? Some of those guys coached for 10+ years, reached the NBA, etc.

 

[Cuse181]

Mcleod is an underrated loss, yeah I know he wasn't great but he's got size and he allows us to play Brown at the 4 more

Did brown ever actually play at the 4 with McLoed? Like I don’t remember seeing them on the floor together outside of token minutes

 

[GHLF]

Lol. Must be a relative new fan.

You speak of yourself, consistent with little to no preexisting basketball knowledge.

 

[orangepassion]

Based on our roster, I think Red has done a fairly good job this year. We were already limited and losing Westry and Mcleod killed any possible depth. The depth killer is having 4 centers occupying space on the roster, but not contributing at all, and only Mcleod is due to injury. Need the Freshmen to be good next year and bring in 1 or 2 solid transfers. I hope Chance can be healthy and show what he can do, but I don't want to rely on it again.

 

[GHLF]

Based on our roster, I think Red has done a fairly good job this year. We were already limited and losing Westry and Mcleod killed any possible depth. The depth killer is having 4 centers occupying space on the roster, but not contributing at all, and only Mcleod is due to injury. Need the Freshmen to be good next year and bring in 1 or 2 solid transfers. I hope Chance can be healthy and show what he can do, but I don't want to rely on it again.

Losing Jessie to boot, in season turnover, switch to man, first year..., I am shocked we have done this well. Things will continue to improve IMO

 

[LAorange44]

love red. support red. the question we need to ask and answer honestly is the same question we would ask of any coach here: is red currently or on his way to becoming a top 25 coach in the country? If the answer is no, then our program is toast compared to the JB glory days. an elite coach is necessary to win a national title. Ask UConn. They seem to be doin alright.

 

[two3zone]

The bottom line is TALENT - we dont have enough.

Can Red get it ???

You have to give him at least two full recruiting cycles.

This class coming in on paper looks like a great start, really like the targets for the year after, that and the portal, I think Red is on the right path and it gives me a lot of hope.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I thought when Boeheim retired that each single game result wouldn't be considered a referendum on the state of the program, but looks like once again, I'm an idiot.

 

[djcon57]

Busts are teams like USC. 3rd ranked recruiting class with two five stars and two four stars and they have 10 wins in a miserable conference. Let’s actually give Red some coaching praise. It’s been far from perfect but those of us who actually follow the sport as a whole know how much better Red has done than a lot of coaches this year with far less…

And everyone’s savior Pitino is 14-11. Amazing what people choose to ignore

Yes, Red has done very good this year with what he’s got.

also, Red needs to get into a tourney in the next 2 years.

seems like both can be true.

 

[wiseman3]

No chance.

5 years for a new head coach who is totally rebuilding, sure. But not for a coach who had basically all players he personally recruited return. If we can't win next year with a 5 star all American, another top recruit, and some returners etc then we're in trouble

 

[shizzah]

I’m asking this as a person who never played basketball at high level where I would know the answer. What offense are we running? I heard Red in an interview say it’s reads and reacting. Is that a legit offense? Is that what JB did? Is what we do really dissimilar to what other teams do?

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Look at the construction of the team. Im shocked that we've won as many games as we have. A bust would have been if we were bottom of the league.

 

[Newhouser]

I think this team has won more games with Red than they would have with JB.
That said he needs to improve the half court sets next year and needs to totally eliminate the attitude the players give him.
Finally we need to stop the Hurley comparisons. He's not Hurley.

 

[Orangefan1]

I couldn't disagree more with this take. Red is out performing what JB did the last 2 years and to think he was going to do much better ..well, the problem is with the person thinking it rather than what we did on the floor. We do not have a good team. To have 16 wins with this bunch, is a plus. Not a negative,

I don’t agree…JB had a true center and leaders on the team. If Buddy didn’t hit somebody in the sack they might of beat Duke in the ACC tourney. Girard is the piece we are sorely missing. This is Reds team. He put this together and it’s been a giant flop. Doesn’t have a true center playing a forward, Tayor can’t make anything, Williams should of been shown the door last year I could go on and on…We have a couple of guys coming next year but we need a lot of help. There are five or six guys that shouldn’t be playing or have a scholarship at Syracuse.

 

[richmondcuse03]

This class coming in on paper looks like a great start, really like the targets for the year after, that and the portal, I think Red is on the right path and it gives me a lot of hope.

Same. I think he’s going to crush the 25 class too.

Once Jesse left and we didn’t replace him, Red’s hands were tied. He’s done a decent job out of a meh situation. He needs to be willing to cut bait with the guys who don’t buy into his philosophy in the offseason though. He gave them a shot. But he needs players who will play with heart and effort.

 

[im4cuse]

Kenny Payne, stuff like that.

Red didn't walk into a great spot. And it's not like he can freely sign whoever he wants like it's baseball free agency in one offseason.

So what will we say after we lose to Lville?
College bb today is instant makeover with the portal. Almost every team we lose to is loaded with guys who make a difference in year one. You don’t get 5 years anymore.

 

[Fly Rodder]

He needs to be willing to cut bait with the guys who don’t buy into his philosophy in the offseason though. He gave them a shot. But he needs players who will play with heart and effort

That’s the biggest thing. Roster management needs to get right. All these players have some positives but don’t miss the forest for the trees here. I don’t think adding a frosh starting PF makes this squad into a tourney team. A lot of posters on this board think this team is talented but just needs experience - which is a mistake imo. Red needs players and they cost in NIL and minutes.

 

[Red2003]

It's 3 years for Red. We are not making the NCAAT this year and that sucks, I'll save last night or next years roster for the other thread. I hate saying it's a bust but OP is close enough to correct. This one I put squarely on Red though, his roster put us here however much bad injury luck.

However It doesn't mean it was for nothing to me at least. The non-con was decent a huge step up from prior years. First buzzer beater in years ok only one shot but whatever Miami had our #. Signature win over top 10 UNC. Trounced Pitt twice. These are all things that hadn't happened in nearing a decade. It means something for the students and fans and players/coaches, not as much as a tourney berth but something.

Red was always playing the long game, we'll know more next year. Doesn't hurt that the 24-25 year olds are finally done too

 

[gmoney44]

5 years is what a coach should be given. Imagine if Uconn canned Hurley after year 3? He didn’t make tourney first two years at the helm. This season certainly not a bust. Lot of flaws but a bust would have been winning 10 games.

Five years in the transfer portal and NIL era? If he isn’t on the bubble or better in year two we should move on but I recognize he will get three.

 

[DPCuse]

Too early to judge Red. Year one has had its ups and downs. Was hoping for lightning in a bottle but didn’t get it. Road play is concerning but that’s not unusual for a young team. Need to see the trend next two years (up or down?).

What I’m watching going forward…..roster management, in game adjustments and command over this team.