Red Season 1 Now a Bust

[FrancoPizza]

A bust relative to fan expectations? That describes every season for the past 50 outside of ‘03 and maybe a couple others.

This board is borderline bipolar. This offseason a bunch of folks were asking if this was our most talented roster ever. It’s absurd.

But, it’s been a rocky season and Red’s roster moves probably have graded out somewhere in the D range.

He’ll get three years but has to have a better roster next year. Freeman should help. Westry might help. A couple key additions, however, would go a loooonnnnngggggg way to making us feel better. A switchable, athletic defense-minded big (doesn’t have to be a center, imo) and a good two-way player at the wing or maybe PG would likely make us much more compelling.

Also need to find a way to squeeze minutes out of McLeod (he should only play in the zone, so maybe that’s a 4-min stretch of each half) and add a few wrinkles to our approach on both ends of the floor.

This off-season will go a long way to tell us whether Red has what it takes.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Yet you posted..

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with my post. Season 1 (making the NCAAT) officially ended tonight. It’s okay to question the future. Red will be here next year. How long should he have to turn the program around? Right now it’s just looking like a continuation of JAB’a last few seasons of mediocrity.

Making the NCAAT did not officially end. There is always an out: win the freaking NCAA.ACC.
He inherited a bunch of misfit parts. Benny took a flier. Hima is limited. Taylor suddenly can’t shoot. He has tried to reign in Judah, which JB didn’t do. Judah has shown the ability for more team oriented play, which I didn’t think would happen, tbh. Bell has had moments, many more than I thought him capable. He has even rebounded and defended. Brown has blossomed under Red.
His guys: Cuffe disappointed, but coming off an injury season. We will see what next year brings. McCloud has disappointed (or maybe we over hoped), a now is done for the year. JJ is becoming what he was supposed to be. I am sure Westry was going to be a big part of what he planned.
Not much has gone right with the new guys.
He has had a lot to deal with, on top of replacing a legend. He has probably more games lost to injury in his first year than JB ever had in any one season.
I think he is doing very well. Let’s see how the players vote (stay or leave) at the end of the year.

 

[billsin01]

Your expectation is to win a NCAA Championship every year?

nah, I was kinda joking about the insanity of the board. But red’s job can’t be making people here happy (I know you’re not saying it is).

But nationally expectations were low. We’re about where people had us pegged for the most part.

For me, I was a bit concerned after the first exhibition games and then UNH and Canisius that we might be an 8- or 9-win disaster. So my expectations with this outcome were largely met or even slightly exceeded. Not where we want to be but I never say this as a top 25 type group.

All of that said, Red will have more pressure in year 2. Barring disaster, he’ll see year 3 and then I’d guess we sort of know where it will go.

 

[Brian Orange]

Nothing about this season has been a surprise to me (aside maybe Benny being kicked off). And I say that neither in a positive or negative way.

 

[Madbiker]

IMO Red got the most you could expect from this group. His in game coaching has been fine. I have not found myself watching these games and thinking what a bonehead move by the coach. Just the opposite. His strategy moves have been consistently good. To be fair a coach needs to bring in 3 recruiting classes to be evaluated. The guys coming in next season are his first class. He needs to get a couple of upgrades from the portal this spring as well. Let's see what happens. You can't get water from a stone and you can't get consistently good shooting or rebounding from the guys on this year's team. Brown and JJ are solid. Copeland has potential. The rest is TBD for next year. I'm rooting for Red and I have confidence in him to build a winner.

 

[billsin01]

This off-season will go a long way to tell us whether Red has what it takes.

Agreed. But I’d imagine he sees year 3 regardless … or at least short of a catastrophe.

 

[blust2i3d4]

Making the NCAAT did not officially end. There is always an out: win the freaking NCAA.
He inherited a bunch of misfit parts. Benny took a flier. Hima is limited. Taylor suddenly can’t shoot. He has tried to reign in Judah, which JB didn’t do. Judah has shown the ability for more team oriented play, which I didn’t think would happen, tbh. Bell has had moments, many more than I thought him capable. He has even rebounded and defended. Brown has blossomed under Red.
His guys: Cuffe disappointed, but coming off an injury season. We will see what next year brings. McCloud has disappointed (or maybe we over hoped), a now is done for the year. JJ is becoming what he was supposed to be. I am sure Westry was going to be a big part of what he planned.
Not much has gone right with the new guys.
He has had a lot to deal with, on top of replacing a legend. He has probably more games lost to injury in his first year than JB ever had in any one season.
I think he is doing very well. Let’s see how the players vote (stay or leave) at the end of the year.

Taylor couldn't shoot last season. He only had some sparkles sometimes. Basically he stayed the same this season.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

IMO Red got the most you could expect from this group. His in game coaching has been fine. I have not found myself watching these games and thinking what a bonehead move by the coach. Just the opposite. His strategy moves have been consistently good. To be fair a coach needs to bring in 3 recruiting classes to be evaluated. The guys coming in next season are his first class. He needs to get a couple of upgrades from the portal this spring as well. Let's see what happens. You can't get water from a stone and you can't get consistently good shooting or rebounding from the guys on this year's team. Brown and JJ are solid. Copeland has potential. The rest is TBD for next year. I'm rooting for Red and I have confidence in him to build a winner.

IDK Red is fine but a great coach gets us over the hump and escapes with a W last night.

Let Judah have one of his worst games after following one of his best Hima comes in and ices the game for them with a missed rebound immediately no assists from the guards. Damon Stoudamire seems clueless and his team was the smarter tougher squad.

These guys are sophomores I don't think we need to add too much if most come back and improve there is no reason to turn on Autry unless we are in the same position or worse at this point next year.

 

[hoopsupstate]

This team struggles in a lot of areas:
1. Poor shooting team. The worse in the ACC
2. Worst rebounding team in the ACC
3. Poor passing team
4. No clue how to run a break
5. Below average defensive team.
6. Lack of physicality and mental toughness

Above average:
1. Attacking the basket
2. Creating turnovers
3. Good foul shouting from time to time
4. Maliq is the only passer on the team. Copeland has the vision, but he’s too careless and over the top with the ball in his hands
5. Quick hands

Now throw in losing McCloud, Westry and Williams and it’s not hard to see why this team struggles. This team is emotionally fragile with no leadership. You wonder how they won 16 games.

 

[GHLF]

love red. support red. the question we need to ask and answer honestly is the same question we would ask of any coach here: is red currently or on his way to becoming a top 25 coach in the country? If the answer is no, then our program is toast compared to the JB glory days. an elite coach is necessary to win a national title. Ask UConn. They seem to be doin alright.

I truly believe we are headed back there

 

[GHLF]

Your post is a bust! What did you expect in year one under Coach Red , did you not see like the last ten years of Syracuse basketball and the downhill in recruiting as well‍

Just like I said, literally incredibly poor insight IMO, yep

 

[SBU72]

Nothing about this season has been a surprise to me (aside maybe Benny being kicked off). And I say that neither in a positive or negative way.

My surprises? That Williams, Bell and Taylor stayed on the team especially Williams. That McLeod was offered period, never thought he was any good. That forwards/centers more suited to play man weren't sought out. With the roster Red had; hoped for improvement, expected the worse

 

[two3zone]

Making the NCAAT did not officially end. There is always an out: win the freaking NCAA.
He inherited a bunch of misfit parts. Benny took a flier. Hima is limited. Taylor suddenly can’t shoot. He has tried to reign in Judah, which JB didn’t do. Judah has shown the ability for more team oriented play, which I didn’t think would happen, tbh. Bell has had moments, many more than I thought him capable. He has even rebounded and defended. Brown has blossomed under Red.
His guys: Cuffe disappointed, but coming off an injury season. We will see what next year brings. McCloud has disappointed (or maybe we over hoped), a now is done for the year. JJ is becoming what he was supposed to be. I am sure Westry was going to be a big part of what he planned.
Not much has gone right with the new guys.
He has had a lot to deal with, on top of replacing a legend. He has probably more games lost to injury in his first year than JB ever had in any one season.
I think he is doing very well. Let’s see how the players vote (stay or leave) at the end of the year.

Expecting anything Westry would be incredibly dumb, if the staff has him penciled starting or as the first guy off the bench then they’re inviting another disappointment.

It’s one thing to be not sure what is coming in from a freshman, but bringing in guys who have done nothing on this level and expecting great results is very poor planning.

 

[orangecuse]

I can't believe that our season is over in February again.

 

[Wrinkle]

Anyone who is questioning Red is a fool, imo. This season would have been a major challenge for any coach.

Even at the beginning of the year before injuries, the personnel and rotation presented a puzzle. We had and have a lot of pieces that don't fit. We have wild inconsistency at the forward spots. Our 7ft center proved virtually useless (perhaps due to injury). Until Starling miraculously found his groove and Copeland emerged, we had major problems at guard. Bell is sometimes a knockdown shooter, but he is streaky and offers absolutely nothing else when off. Taylor has become a black hole of nothing. These problems required constant shifting and experimentation with the rotation, and Red handled all of that very well, imo.

Our man defense was quite excellent for a stretch, until we began to be torched. Red has since boldly shifted to primarily zone, which helped produce a win against top 10 Carolina, and to me feels like our best option at this point.

I think Red has done very well in an extremely challenging situation, and I think any other take is crazy

 

[NineOneSeven]

This reminds me, should bump the "Red" thread.

 

[oldpinepoint]

stays 4-5 years, why did anyone think we would be any better than last year. We lost JE and JG, we replaced with starling. Our roster makeup is terrible

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Edwards leaving doomed the season - we need a center - we would be fine with Brown if we had two other forwards but Bell is a roll player and Taylor has no business playing in the ACC - Copeland and Bell are good players that should get some time - how many offensive rebounds did GT get at the end of the game?

 

[cusefan88]

I'm interested to see who stays, leaves, and newcomers. Roster needs some work. I didn't expect them to make the NCAA tournament in year 1 but I do think they need to be on the bubble or better next year.

 

[Cuseball]

Anyone who is questioning Red is a fool, imo. This season would have been a major challenge for any coach.

Even at the beginning of the year before injuries, the personnel and rotation presented a puzzle. We had and have a lot of pieces that don't fit. We have wild inconsistency at the forward spots. Our 7ft center proved virtually useless (perhaps due to injury). Until Starling miraculously found his groove and Copeland emerged, we had major problems at guard. Bell is sometimes a knockdown shooter, but he is streaky and offers absolutely nothing else when off. Taylor has become a black hole of nothing. These problems required constant shifting and experimentation with the rotation, and Red handled all of that very well, imo.

Our man defense was quite excellent for a stretch, until we began to be torched. Red has since boldly shifted to primarily zone, which helped produce a win against top 10 Carolina, and to me feels like our best option at this point.

I think Red has done very well in an extremely challenging situation, and I think any other take is crazy

Red has done fine. There are some bright spots for the future (good recruits coming in) and was impressed with Red making the hard decision on Benny and trying to instill energy. Also impressed with how the team responded and beat UNC. Team has not quit despite some massive defeats (although they may have quit during those games).

However, Autry played a role in this team’s makeup . Recruited these players, made the decision to keep these players and chose who he went after in the portal. The decision to rely on front line players such as Taylor and Williams was a very bad bet. Not addressing the teams significant shooting problems was not good. Some of the discipline problems we have seen do not reflect well on Autry.

If we go something like 18-14 it’s basically the same as last year but Autry gets a pass for year one. Year two can not be anything like this year. Can not be non competitive against decent teams and need to be in the mix for a tournmanet bid. There will not and should not be a pass for next year.

Cuse!

 

[Oakland]

Not a total bust. At least we won the three most important games: Pttx2 and GTown. In the late JB era, we often suffered unexpected losses from them.

I’m with you, and we at least split with BC

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Just like I said, literally incredibly poor insight IMO, yep

You’ve yet to back up your posts with anything resembling a logical argument

 

[syrBossHogg]

It looks exactly like the previous years to me except a crappy man defense instead of a crappy zone. Offense, inbound plays, substitution, basketball IQ and team discipline look like carbon copies to previous years. Go figure when 3 of 4 coaches helped build the previous teams.

The defense is 45th in adjusted defense per KenPom FWIW. We haven't ranked that high on defense since 2019.

We need more size on defense and more skill/talent on offense

 

[23Zone]

Taylor couldn't shoot last season. He only had some sparkles sometimes. Basically he stayed the same this season.

Taylor went from pretty bad to infinitely atrocious

 

[SU91]

To me, the answer on Red will be delivered via the ‘25 recruiting class. That’s where we will really see if he’s capable of resurrecting the program.

We’re not getting any saviors in the portal. My guess is we get mediocre plug in players there and mediocrity will persist.

The foundation will be set with the ‘25 class. All it takes is one or two players to add to the ‘24 class. If he can prove himself on the trail, he’ll have the luxury of proving himself on the court.