Richardson entering, no agent

[HoustonCuse]

They knew about Joseph and Obokoh for some time.

"Some time" equals what? To get a top caliber replacement, they needed about 18 months. Mediocre you can probably get in 5-9 months. Emergency you can get now.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Well, they did try to get a replacement for Diagne (or insurance), and I think they thought they had it with Thomas Bryant.

Joseph - they may have known he wouldn't be as impactful as a 5th year senior Mike G, but that is a far cry from saying he would not even be serviceable in any way for a single minute of meaningful game action!

And on top of that there is no way to know that in addition to that, he would also transfer. And that Obokoh would transfer. As it turns out, BJ Johnson and Kaleb would have gotten substantial run next year (if MR doesn't return). But it only highlights how hard it is to manage the roster and like I said the sanctions (that also change over time in unexpected ways) compound the problem. This is not a pro franchise that can be managed in line with a salary structure and union rules. It is almost totally unpredictable in all the important aspects. That's my only point.

Bryant was long gone before Diagne was declared ineligible. They wanted both.

The staff knew they would be shorthanded after this past season, and it could be even worse if Mali stays in the draft. They've had time to go after other grad transfers and didn't. I hope that's a good sign they believe Mali will be back, but they're definitely teetering on the edge here. The starting lineup, scoring potential and depth could all be significantly comprised with no replacement if Mal is gone. That's pretty concerning.

 

[cuseguy]

"Some time" equals what? To get a top caliber replacement, they needed about 18 months. Mediocre you can probably get in 5-9 months. Emergency you can get now.

We're not Duke or Kentucky or Kansas, but they seem to grab high caliber recruits on a moment's notice late in the recruiting cycle.

SU has been recruiting Thompson for months. But he seems reluctant to come because he might not play on a team with only 8 scholarship players.

 

[TheCusian]

So now we think that JB is telling recruits that they are going to start and at what position they will start before they get on campus? I dont believe that is true.

Not all recruits. But some.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Well, they did try to get a replacement for Diagne (or insurance), and I think they thought they had it with Thomas Bryant.

Bryant committed to Indiana in early April. Diagne's problems didn't show up until mid-august(?). I think, despite being well-regarded by some on this board and a good recruit in his own right, Diagne was the safety net to not getting Bryant. And then Diagne couldn't qualify, which really impacted things. So now they were essentially down three players (Diagne, Obokoh, and Joseph). Emergency recruiting should have started last August for 2016-17.

It is almost totally unpredictable in all the important aspects. That's my only point.

I don't necessarily think so. I think it is difficult and I think that the sanctions did mess with recruiting, but it can be overcome. Look at Lousiville, they'll have a full complement of players next season including grad transfers. And there's zero reason to send Obokoh and Joseph packing unless they're bringing in replacements who can contribute this coming season or in 2017. If they go into next season with 9-10 scholarship players, and Spike Albrecht, it will be disappointing.

 

[Dave85]

There is a great reason for it: scholarship reductions. The reduction in penalty came too late to pre-plan for it this year. The fact that KJ did not improve in his sophomore year was information not available during the recruiting cycle pre-season, and have scholarships open up from Obokoh, KJ, and Mali could also not have been anticipated pre-season when the staff could have done anything about it. Managing a roster over a multi year period in major level college BB is virtually impossible these days and when you add in not just sanctions, but sanctions that change, I'm not sure how you could expect perfection.

I read an article that said after they make a bunch of offers whoever accepts just gets it. But I don't think that's quite right because I think the 3.7 star player may have to wait for the 5-star player to commit. It's weird how it's done. I've always wonder if it's an handshake phone call where the player says okay I'll take it but the staff says you cannot announce until this date or we still get to decide or something like that.


http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/syracuse

 

[Dave85]

Not all recruits. But some.

There has to be limits to this because we would hear disgruntled players says stuff at some point.

 

[TinyManInside]

Ovcina was Pittsnogle before Pittsnogle...if Pittsnogle shot under 20% from 3 and cracked backboards on many of his attempts.

That Jim Boeheim allowed Ovcina to attempt 52 three-pointers in a season might be the worst thing he's ever done. That he allowed Ovcina to attempt 58 three-pointers the following season is tantamount to a war crime against the people of Syracuse.

lol

I saw Ovcina raining in three pointers in practice on multiple occasions. Dude was a great practice shooter who couldn't figure out how to make them in actual games. Sort of similar to Ethan Cole, who was a very good practice player but didn't have 'the next gear' needed to adjust to real game speed. Some dudes top out in practice, the good ones have another gear that they can access in games.

 

[Dave85]

I saw Ovcina raining in three pointers in practice on multiple occasions. Dude was a great practice shooter who couldn't figure out how to make them in actual games. Sort of similar to Ethan Cole, who was a very good practice player but didn't have 'the next gear' needed to adjust to real game speed. Some dudes top out in practice, the good ones have another gear that they can access in games.

I like the guys who can't make shots in practice but are deadly when contested. It's almost like without the adrenaline rush the shot is off. Game speed is a different animal. It's like the difference between golden retriever puppies playing with a ball and honey badgers fighting off lions.

 

[Cheriehoop]

If only 60 get invited, sounds like he is on the borderline.

Usually the top picks skip the combine along with foreign players so more players down the list usually end up get invited only because of these numerous dropouts. Still doesn't change the number of possible draft spots.

 

[RF2044]

I saw Ovcina raining in three pointers in practice on multiple occasions. Dude was a great practice shooter who couldn't figure out how to make them in actual games. Sort of similar to Ethan Cole, who was a very good practice player but didn't have 'the next gear' needed to adjust to real game speed. Some dudes top out in practice, the good ones have another gear that they can access in games.

Its funny--Ethan Cole has become infamous b/c of Igor's hyperbole, but the fact of the matter is that he was a much better athlete [bigger, stronger, could run, etc.] than most people give him credit for. And he went toe-to-toe with Etan Thomas, who was a man-mountain, every day in practice and generally held his own.

I remember some of us regular practice attendees back then were hopeful that it might translate over--that we'd end up with him being an above average starting big who fell into our lap [from the University of New Hampshire, of all places]. But he was one of those guys who tightened up when the spotlight came on.

He started that next year and was given early opportunities, but just came up short. So much so, that the staff went with physically underdeveloped Billy Celuck and raw frosh Jeremy McNeil over him. Missed opportunity for Cole--he definitely had the physical tools to be a contributor for us.

 

[SBU72]

I know the point of the rule change is to give the players more time to gather information and make a more informed decision so we don't have lots of players declaring and then not getting drafted. So I think the intent is great. But I'm afraid it could end up backfiring. With the lower risk we're seeing a lot more guys declaring and not hiring an agent (immediately), but this gives the agents and other hangers-on more time and opportunity to get in their ears. And I'm not sure the NBA scouts are honest brokers here - what incentive do they have to tell a guy he's definitely not ready? The more players in the draft the more options their team has when their picks come up, so why wouldn't they just tell most guys they're likely first-rounders? Or is there some sort of panel with no stake in the outcome that evaluates them?

One way to "rate" them would be have scouts rate each guy 1 thru 32. Anybody over 32 gets an automatic 33 Then take a average score for each player. Sort of a mass mock draft. If a kid gets and average of 10, he's in real good shape, 20 ok. Anything over 30 shows a very good potential of not being first round. There has to be some sort of numeric rating system that would work. NBA scouts of not giving honest opinion, heck, the NFL combine works, why shouldn't an NBA version.

 

[shandeezy7]

One way to "rate" them would be have scouts rate each guy 1 thru 32. Anybody over 32 gets an automatic 33 Then take a average score for each player. Sort of a mass mock draft. If a kid gets and average of 10, he's in real good shape, 20 ok. Anything over 30 shows a very good potential of not being first round. There has to be some sort of numeric rating system that would work. NBA scouts of not giving honest opinion, heck, the NFL combine works, why shouldn't an NBA version.

The problem with that idea is that all it takes is one team to take a chance on a guy, regardless of what any other team rates him at. So while the information could be somewhat valuable, it still doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme I guess.

 

[HoustonCuse]

The problem with that idea is that all it takes is one team to take a chance on a guy, regardless of what any other team rates him at. So while the information could be somewhat valuable, it still doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme I guess.

A scheme like that would be pretty valuable overall though. If a player had a solid commitment from a team to draft him, then he could disregard the rating system. In cases where there is no agreement, then a player could at least understand the relative risk that they will go undrafted or go very late. Of course, it is no doubt easier to secure such commitments if you have an agent and can do individual workouts for several teams. The no agent thing definitely leaves a player at somewhat of a disadvantage, but no system is apparently possible that puts the player first.

 

[djcon57]

I saw Ovcina raining in three pointers in practice on multiple occasions. Dude was a great practice shooter who couldn't figure out how to make them in actual games. Sort of similar to Ethan Cole, who was a very good practice player but didn't have 'the next gear' needed to adjust to real game speed. Some dudes top out in practice, the good ones have another gear that they can access in games.

Ethan Cole was BOEHEIMED, sir. Get it right.

 

[GoCuse14]

Not all recruits. But some.

I just dont see that happening.

 

[chugg21]

Chad Ford update on his Big Board where he has him at 52:

Apr 18 Update: Richardson has declared for the 2016 NBA Draft. Richardson's strong performance in the tournament against Virginia and North Carolina had a number of NBA scouts start to look at him for the first time as a potential first-round prospect. He's an athletic, versatile wing who can both get to the basket and shoot the 3. He needs to get stronger, but he ticks off a lot of boxes that scouts look for in a shooting guard. He could go in the No. 20 to No. 40 range.

 

[orangefan13]

"While Richardson's NCAA Tournament performance was impressive, an NBA scout I spoke with Monday warned about an old adage among scouts to "not fall in love with March guys." The scout likes Richardson's length and athleticism and believes he has a developing skill set to eventually play in the NBA, but would rather see him return to Syracuse for another season to overcome issues with inconsistent shooting."

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/inde..._richardson_declaring.html#incart_river_index

wow that is great read.

 

[TheCusian]

I just dont see that happening.

"If you come here you have near a 100% chance to start. And we'd give you first go at PG."

Not that hard to tell the truth, while not promising a position or starting spot per se, but making it pretty clear the day he steps on campus he's the #1 PG.

(He may not stay there; or gets run early in games to get yanked; we've seen this before)

 

[FrancoPizza]

Chad Ford update on his Big Board where he has him at 52:

Apr 18 Update: Richardson has declared for the 2016 NBA Draft. Richardson's strong performance in the tournament against Virginia and North Carolina had a number of NBA scouts start to look at him for the first time as a potential first-round prospect. He's an athletic, versatile wing who can both get to the basket and shoot the 3. He needs to get stronger, but he ticks off a lot of boxes that scouts look for in a shooting guard. He could go in the No. 20 to No. 40 range.

20-40=52 :noidea:

 

[Fly Rodder]

20-40=52 :noidea:

Yeah, that's one helluva hedge.

 

[GoCuse14]

"If you come here you have near a 100% chance to start. And we'd give you first go at PG."

Not that hard to tell the truth, while not promising a position or starting spot per se, but making it pretty clear the day he steps on campus he's the #1 PG.

(He may not stay there; or gets run early in games to get yanked; we've seen this before)

What we have seen from JB i just have a difficult time believing that he is gonna tell any kid they will be starting before they even make it to campus. I can see a scenario that he would tell someone that they will get serious consideration, or looks. But thats about it.

 

[chugg21]

20-40=52 :noidea:

He still has guys that won't be in the draft listed in there, like I believe Lydon is listed at 38. Makes a little more sense but don't believe there are a dozen listed ahead of Malachi that won't be in the draft.

 

[SBU72]

A scheme like that would be pretty valuable overall though. If a player had a solid commitment from a team to draft him, then he could disregard the rating system. In cases where there is no agreement, then a player could at least understand the relative risk that they will go undrafted or go very late. Of course, it is no doubt easier to secure such commitments if you have an agent and can do individual workouts for several teams. The no agent thing definitely leaves a player at somewhat of a disadvantage, but no system is apparently possible that puts the player first.

If a guy gets a commitment from a team to take him resaonably high, then it's to the players advantage to stay in the draft. But a team can only afford to take so many chances. Take a chance 1 year is fine but even 2 years in a row puts the team in a downward sprial. Of course if the team has a hug cap space to pick up freeagents and is atttractive enough to do so, then they could afford to take chance. Still some sort of league wide rating system comming out of the work out camp benefits at lest 90% if not everybody, so it should work.

 

[TheCusian]

What we have seen from JB i just have a difficult time believing that he is gonna tell any kid they will be starting before they even make it to campus. I can see a scenario that he would tell someone that they will get serious consideration, or looks. But thats about it.

I think we're closer to being in agreement than you think. In recruiting you can make strong implications without promises or guarantees. And I would bet my mortgage JB implied very strongly that Battle would be starting and that he's get a long look at PG.

That's exactly what most coaches do with top 20 talent. They are usually a pretty good bet to do just that: start.