Richardson entering, no agent

[bpo57]

Where has Lydon been measured at that height? Never seen that. His wing span isn't very NBAesqe either.

Can't remember where I read it but I know I read it. He looks all of 6'8". Never thought I'd read a scouting report where somebody favored MR over someone else because of his defense.

 

[orangenirvana]

OK, understood. But that does seem a little cold. Thinking about ourselves? You want a good player and care about his abilities so he can do his best for SU basketball, then kind of spit him out if he makes a personal decision that may not satisfy the fan? These aren't robots and they give their all for SU basketball. I hope he stays 4 years, would be very happy to have him for 2, but if he ends up going after 1, I'm not thrilled but am thankful for what he did for the team and wish him well. Players (and coaches) make SU basketball great.

Why is it okay for Malachi to do what is right for himself but we can't root for our own interests?

Malachi will live his life and our's will go on - but let's not pretend that "whatever is best for Mal should be best for all of us" and our interests are exactly the same. Malachi should hope that he will be told that he is a Top 10 pick. I'm sure as hell not hoping that. Sorry if that's too "cold" for you.

 

[cuseguy]

But if a coach isn't expecting a player to leave after one year, it catches them off guard, its hard to recruit another top player in hopes of a player leaving early.

When you recruit a Mickey D AA player, you have to expect he might be one and done. SU has lost a number of players early lately who weren't Mickey D AA types.

Malachi may return, but the staff shouldn't be caught off guard if he does.

SU isn't deep at the guard position and has only 8 scholarship players.

Shouldn't be that difficult to find a serviceable replacement.

 

[two3zone]

Can't remember where I read it but I know I read it. He looks all of 6'8". Never thought I'd read a scouting report where somebody favored MR over someone else because of his defense.

Defense isn't the only issue, Lydons outside percentages is literally with WIDE open shots, did he take a with somebody within 6 feet of him?

I don't claim to be an expert but I watch just as much NBA as I do basketball but I'm just not as high on Lydon as an NBA prospect as most. From an unbiased eye he has far far far too many holes in his game and the only thing close to NBA ready part of his game is shooting, and we don't even know how truly well a shooter he is until he takes more and is guarded more out here. See Fair's Jr. to Sr. years %.

 

[Briancuse]

When you recruit a Mickey D AA player, you have to expect he might be one and done. SU has lost a number of players early lately who weren't Mickey D AA types.

Malachi may return, but the staff shouldn't be caught off guard if he does.

SU isn't deep at the guard position and has only 8 scholarship players.

Shouldn't be that difficult to find a serviceable replacement.

Not all Mcdonalds all americans leave early, we just had one stay 4 years in Rak. The bottom line is when a player who is a borderline first round pick leaves early, its going to catch you off guard.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Defense isn't the only issue, Lydons outside percentages is literally with WIDE open shots, did he take a . . . . with somebody within 6 feet of him?

I don't claim to be an expert but I watch just as much NBA as I do basketball but I'm just not as high on Lydon as an NBA prospect as most. From an unbiased eye he has far far far too many holes in his game and the only thing close to NBA ready part of his game is shooting, and we don't even know how truly well a shooter he is until he takes more and is guarded more out here. See Fair's Jr. to Sr. years %.

I agree with you on a lot, but respectfully disagree here. In the age of analytics Lydon is the ultimate analytic player. His advanced offense And defensive metrics are really good and that's why I suspect he garners more NBA potential than Mal, and while you use CJ as an example, Lydon is way ahead of CJs learning curve. It's not close really.

 

[bpo57]

Defense isn't the only issue, Lydons outside percentages is literally with WIDE open shots, did he take a . . . . with somebody within 6 feet of him?

I don't claim to be an expert but I watch just as much NBA as I do basketball but I'm just not as high on Lydon as an NBA prospect as most. From an unbiased eye he has far far far too many holes in his game and the only thing close to NBA ready part of his game is shooting, and we don't even know how truly well a shooter he is until he takes more and is guarded more out here. See Fair's Jr. to Sr. years %.

I don't think bias is coming into play for me as I generally am nowhere near as optimistic as others on this board when it comes to our guys making it in the NBA. But I think Lydon has a ton of potential. Way more than Richardson in my opinion. We'll see.

 

[cuseguy]

Not all Mcdonalds all americans leave early, we just had one stay 4 years in Rak. The bottom line is when a player who is a borderline first round pick leaves early, its going to catch you off guard.

I think the staff knew pretty quickly that Rak wasn't leaving early. He didn't play much.

But Malachi was a starter...and a productive starter.

 

[pearl31]

huh...didn't Ford have him way farther down than that in his most recent rankings? was that just because he thought he wasn't declaring this year?

 

[TheCusian]

Why is it okay for Malachi to do what is right for himself but we can't root for our own interests? Malachi will live his life and our's will go on - but let's not pretend that "whatever is best for Mal should be best for all of us" and our interests are exactly the same. Malachi should hope that he will be told that he is a Top 10 pick. I'm sure as hell not hoping that. Sorry if that's too "cold" for you.

I think it's more fun to root for players to succeed than to just hope they win games for my favorite school. I like seeing kids who played here use the experience to elevate themselves, and their families by working their way to the highest level in their profession.

I think it's selfish and somewhat disingenuous as a fan to root solely from your point of view without wondering what it might mean to this kid to realize his dream. I'm also glad you weren't involved with pitching Carmelo on making the investment he did, seeing this school and community as more than "just a place"...

Sorry if that's too soft and empathetic for you.

 

[NECuse]

I think (hope) Mal comes back. He should given where he projects and how much he could increase his stock next year. Given our projected team he will be the centerpiece of our offense and won't have to play third fiddle to two 5th year guards (note: I understand that he was our best offensive option on several nights this year ... but on many more nights he was inefficient and couldn't be relied on at all). If he returns, it will be a huge boon for what could very well be a multi-faceted offense. That said, he isn't Melo or even J. Flynn for that matter. I've watched Cuse for close to 30 years and there have only been a handful of players that I could say "Cuse needs a bucket here and this guy is going to get it for them, no matter what the defense presents." It's a short list. Melo, Flynn, Wallace, Owens, Coleman, Wes, Dion. I'm missing one or two guys, but that's about it. Mali isn't that guy so even if he returns, I want to temper the expectations.

With Lydon, he looks like the best long term pro prospect. Long, great stroke, can board and (next year) play fantastic weak side defense. But, again, he is better served being Option 1A/B or 2 in our offense. He showed flashes of being good off the bounce, but he isn't someone that I see us running our offense through each time up the court. He needs a running mate that he can play off of. Hopefully it's Mal and the next guy that's going to be a big boost to this team.

Which leads me to Battle. He is coming here to run the point. Kid decommited to Michigan in no small part than because of our represenation to him and his father that he would have the ball in his hands. Frank, who I like a lot, is not going to start over him. Now Frank will play 20 minutes per game spelling TB and (hopefull) Richardson, and he should be very productive. But he's a 4 year program guy (and a very good one) who isn't going to take burn from Battle.

Just my two cents. Though I'm rarely right about these things.

 

[TheCusian]

Defense isn't the only issue, Lydons outside percentages is literally with WIDE open shots, did he take a . . . . with somebody within 6 feet of him? I don't claim to be an expert but I watch just as much NBA as I do basketball but I'm just not as high on Lydon as an NBA prospect as most. From an unbiased eye he has far far far too many holes in his game and the only thing close to NBA ready part of his game is shooting, and we don't even know how truly well a shooter he is until he takes more and is guarded more out here. See Fair's Jr. to Sr. years %.

Spot up shooters are still a good commodity in the NBA and good offense gets you wide open 3's (see Golden State, San Antonio, Atlanta Hawks). His form is near perfect. He also showed an ability put the ball on the floor at times (which he'll get better at) and he's s pretty good rebounder.

I think you're trying too hard not to be biased, but the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. He's got holes in his game, but most guys coming into the NBA do.

 

[FrancoPizza]

huh...didn't Ford have him way farther down than that in his most recent rankings? was that just because he thought he wasn't declaring this year?

If he's 50-50 first round at this point, I can't like our chances. Means there's a real possibility at least one team will like him enough to make him a promise if he's still available. ford's last projection a couple weeks ago had him at 55 or something. What changed? It's not like there were any games played.

 

[Briancuse]

If he's 50-50 first round at this point, I can't like our chances. Means there's a real possibility at least one team will like him enough to make him a promise if he's still available. ford's last projection a couple weeks ago had him at 55 or something. What? changed? It's not like there were any games played.

Every0ne is going to be promised they will be drafted, the key is he has to be smart and listen to his advisors.

 

[two3zone]

I agree with you on a lot, but respectfully disagree here. In the age of analytics Lydon is the ultimate analytic player. His advanced offense And defensive metrics are really good and that's why I suspect he garners more NBA potential than Mal, and while you use CJ as an example, Lydon is way ahead of CJs learning curve. It's not close really.

When I saw Lydon play in Atlantis I thought he was a surefire lotto pick within his first two years. After watching him closely the rest of the year and breaking his game down in my head I started to try and come up with a comparison for him that succeeded in the NBA and I just couldn't come up with one.

Maybe after this season when he is more of a focal point on offense he'll be easier to grade out but right now it's so difficult to say what he is. His one NBA skill as of right now would be shooting, which I'm still not convinced he'll be able to shoot at the clip he is now when he has defenders on him. Outside of that he needs much more work than is thought.

For him to have a successful career in the NBA with his skill set (unless he greatly improves) he's going to have to shoot like Novak. Next year I think will give everybody a clearer picture on his real future.

 

[orangefan13]

Lydon was awfully explosive taking it to the paint from the perimeter for a big man as a fresh. And that should help him develop into a solid one on one threat.

But there is still a big difference with someone with a handle like Malachi doing that and someone like Lydon, and he seems to only go right off the bounce.
Plus If the help defense starts reading it some and slowing it down his jumper may not be as open as Malachis would be.

Kinda suprised to see Malachi drop his name on a monday with 7 days to go. He did wait to late which sounds good, and there is just so much reason for him to come back. This could be more about learning a thing or two then jumping for all we know. Wouldn't suprise me one bit. Hes going to be banking money either way. Maybe its not as much the perception hes interested to leave right now as we think. And a little preseason buzz for next year could never hurt.

 

[TheCusian]

When I saw Lydon play in Atlantis I thought he was a surefire lotto pick within his first two years. After watching him closely the rest of the year and breaking his game down in my head I started to try and come up with a comparison for him that succeeded in the NBA and I just couldn't come up with one. Maybe after this season when he is more of a focal point on offense he'll be easier to grade out but right now it's so difficult to say what he is. His one NBA skill as of right now would be shooting, which I'm still not convinced he'll be able to shoot at the clip he is now when he has defenders on him. Outside of that he needs much more work than is thought. For him to have a successful career in the NBA with his skill set (unless he greatly improves) he's going to have to shoot like Novak. Next year I think will give everybody a clearer picture on his real future.

Chandler Parsons is a very good comp. Shooting, rebounding, knows where to be and how to play. Plays under control. Novak is a poor comp - Lydon is a better defender, rebounder, shot blocker, and athlete.

You're underestimating him by a lot.

 

[orangenirvana]

I think it's more fun to root for players to succeed than to just hope they win games for my favorite school. I like seeing kids who played here use the experience to elevate themselves, and their families by working their way to the highest level in their profession.

I think it's selfish and somewhat disingenuous as a fan to root solely from your point of view without wondering what it might mean to this kid to realize his dream. I'm also glad you weren't involved with pitching Carmelo on making the investment he did, seeing this school and community as more than "just a place"...

Sorry if that's too soft and empathetic for you.

You're so noble!

You can hope the best players stick around and feel good for them when they succeed and continue to root for them once they're gone. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Dave85]

You're so noble!

You can hope the best players stick around and feel good for them when they succeed and continue to root for them once they're gone. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Hope is not a strong enough word. You can pine for their return and be massively disappointed when they choose to leave while pretending to root for them but secretly hoping they fail miserably because they broke your heart so completely and then talk about it during therapy or post your feelings with a ridiculously long run-on sentence in a threaded discussion group.

Maybe not so noble after all!

 

[orangefog]

I think Lydon could play the Draymond Green role as a facilitator. Every NBA team is going to be looking for a big that can stand at the top of the key and pass or shoot. Lydon makes good decisions, and I think he would do well in this role.

 

[TheCusian]

Hey, if empathy makes you noble - sign me up. Got some more for ya:

I think "the story" within a season is what makes sports so good. And any good story has great characters. Melo, Gerry, Hak. Andy, Arinze, Wes. The more you know and care about the characters the better the experience. Eliminating who they are in favor of just what they can do for you? Why even follow sports?

It's easy to be cold and all business. I get enough of that in my day to day work life.

<steps off of soap box>

 

[RandygoCuse]

Why is it okay for Malachi to do what is right for himself but we can't root for our own interests?

Malachi will live his life and our's will go on - but let's not pretend that "whatever is best for Mal should be best for all of us" and our interests are exactly the same. Malachi should hope that he will be told that he is a Top 10 pick. I'm sure as hell not hoping that. Sorry if that's too "cold" for you.

I have no problem rooting for kids to return, particularly when I think it's in their best interest (and I do think so with Mal). Obviously, I would have loved for Carmelo to come back but that would not have made much sense for him.
I think the problem is when we the kid leaves and he is ripped for being stupid or selfish (or both). This is both pointless and unfair. So yeah, I'll root for Mal to come back. If he doesn't, I'll be disappointed. I may even post that I think he's making a mistake. But I'll wish him good luck as well.

 

[orangenirvana]

Hey, if empathy makes you noble - sign me up. Got some more for ya:

I think "the story" within a season is what makes sports so good. And any good story has great characters. Melo, Gerry, Hak. Andy, Arinze, Wes. The more you know and care about the characters the better the experience. Eliminating who they are in favor of just what they can do for you? Why even follow sports?

It's easy to be cold and all business. I get enough of that in my day to day work life.

<steps off of soap box>

I like the story, too. But the story is more fun and interesting and rewarding when the team is winning. One of the big reasons people follow sports is rooting for their team to win and experiencing the thrill of victory through the players.

If you're only into sports for the story then do you even root for the team to win? Or is a loss on a last-second buzzer beater just as thrilling? I mean, losing to Keith Smart in the 87 championship was a great story, right?

It speaks volumes that the players you list were part of the most successful teams in recent history. Why didn't you list Donte Green, Chris McCullough, Terrence Roberts, Deshaun Williams, etc.? Don't you care about those "characters" also?

Tbh we're likely on the same page here. But you may not be able to see that because your self-righteousness is clouding the view.

 

[SBU72]

I have not read this whole thread (8 pages!) and I understand that the NCAA rules have changed but does anybody know how many kids in the past have withdrawn their names from the draft and returned to school? Or considering the new rules, how many kids have entered the draft this year and where does Richardson rank on that list. I remember a few years back there were something like more kids entering the draft than there were actual selection slots (or close to it) and that was not taking into consideration players from outside the US.

 

[ClamOtto]

I know the point of the rule change is to give the players more time to gather information and make a more informed decision so we don't have lots of players declaring and then not getting drafted. So I think the intent is great. But I'm afraid it could end up backfiring. With the lower risk we're seeing a lot more guys declaring and not hiring an agent (immediately), but this gives the agents and other hangers-on more time and opportunity to get in their ears. And I'm not sure the NBA scouts are honest brokers here - what incentive do they have to tell a guy he's definitely not ready? The more players in the draft the more options their team has when their picks come up, so why wouldn't they just tell most guys they're likely first-rounders? Or is there some sort of panel with no stake in the outcome that evaluates them?