RIP Al Davis | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

RIP Al Davis

Ripping a player who isn't performing isn't in the same hemisphere as cheering on someone's death. But to each his own I guess.

"Cheering on?"

I said good riddance. I didn't root for him to die or "cheer" his death. When Art Model died a few years ago, there was quite a range of diversity of opinions expressed on him and his career / subsequent controversy on this forum. Like Davis [to OPA's arguments above], he was someone who did some pretty historically important things for the NFL [television contract, which changed revenue for the NFL], as well as some things that made him justifiably reviled. Browns fans were entitled to view Model a certain way just as others are entitled to view him differently. How is that any different with Davis? Even Raiders fans [and I know a few] have mixed feelings about him. I'm entitled to my opinion on the man just like everybody else is entitled to theirs.
 

No doubt late in life he's run the team into the ground but as a lifelong Raider fan I consider this is a sad day. He IS DA RAIDERS and made the silver and black what it is.
 
He was an SU alum and a giant in the world of sports, even if he shrunk a little in his last years, as we all do. RIP, Al.

"Just Win Baby!"
 
Quite a few special things in this thread:

- it's pretty cold to say that about a dead guy who isn't psycho

- I've always found there is a fine line when dealing with players. I think calling them out when they drop a pass or can't cover someone might be sort of okay in a forum like this. But I've always found it real distasteful the way a few people talk about our players. I'm not going into much more detail I think most people on here can tell the difference, whether they agree or not.

- As a professional with a Master's in History I've always found it pretty unpatriotic anyone that would allude to it being okay or good if any president died or was killed. I liken it to the burning of the flag. In theory the Constitution protects my right to burn the flag and protects my right to say something vile about what I wish for the President.

However, as an American there are certain things that I just know are wrong to do or say about our country. I knew people who said the same thing about G.W.B and even though I thought he was quite a puppet nothing turned my stomach more then to hear someone talk about the symbol of America in such a way. Unfortunately this will go over some peoples heads.
 
RIP Al, you were a great owner for the greater part of your career. Towards the end you were a little off the rocker, but don't we all get a little crazy the older we get! :D You represented Syracuse University well. We'll all truly miss you.
 
On another subject, I don';t see Al on SU's list of letterman, although he's a graduate. His bio says he went to Wittenberg first. I'm wondering if he ever played football here, eventhough he started a coaching career right afterwards.
 
"Cheering on?"

I said good riddance. I didn't root for him to die or "cheer" his death. When Art Model died a few years ago, there was quite a range of diversity of opinions expressed on him and his career / subsequent controversy on this forum. Like Davis [to OPA's arguments above], he was someone who did some pretty historically important things for the NFL [television contract, which changed revenue for the NFL], as well as some things that made him justifiably reviled. Browns fans were entitled to view Model a certain way just as others are entitled to view him differently. How is that any different with Davis? Even Raiders fans [and I know a few] have mixed feelings about him. I'm entitled to my opinion on the man just like everybody else is entitled to theirs.

Art Modell isn't dead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Modell

I wonder what they'll say about him when he is.
 
They just said Al played JV football at Syracuse. He was born 1929 so that had to have been in the late 40's or very early 50's. Ben must not have thought he had what it took for the varsity.
 
why is hindsight always 20-20-- can you imagine what he could have done as the "big east" commisioner???the sky wouldhave been the limit---like everything else he did. rip al-----wish you had been the commish---you may have been intrigued by the challenge---
 
"Cheering on?"

I said good riddance. I didn't root for him to die or "cheer" his death. When Art Model died a few years ago, there was quite a range of diversity of opinions expressed on him and his career / subsequent controversy on this forum. Like Davis [to OPA's arguments above], he was someone who did some pretty historically important things for the NFL [television contract, which changed revenue for the NFL], as well as some things that made him justifiably reviled. Browns fans were entitled to view Model a certain way just as others are entitled to view him differently. How is that any different with Davis? Even Raiders fans [and I know a few] have mixed feelings about him. I'm entitled to my opinion on the man just like everybody else is entitled to theirs.

You're right. Super post dude.
 
Good riddance, if true.
Classless.

The 1st thing you see when you walk into the Orangemen lockerroom in the Dome is the plaque dedicating the room to Mr. Al Davis. A true and loyal supporter of SU athletics. RIP Al Davis.
 
Classless.

The 1st thing you see when you walk into the Orangemen lockerroom in the Dome is the plaque dedicating the room to Mr. Al Davis. A true and loyal supporter of SU athletics. RIP Al Davis.

I stand corrected, BayonneOrange--Davis, his organization, and visible segments of the Raiders fanbase have been the epitome of class for decades on end. How dare me for expressing an alternate viewpoint given that year of JV football he played back in the early 50s!

Davis being an alum does not whitewash the fact that he's been one of the most polarizing figures in professional sports, across any league, for nearly four decades. Pretending otherwise is absurd--alumnus or otherwise. Being an alum doesn't absolve him from criticism--not when he's been a screwball of the highest magnitude for easily more than twenty years.

For those in this thread who are uncomfortable with me expressing the above viewpoint because it's "too soon" -- fine. But I certainly do not apologize for having a negative opinion of Davis, in light of the aggregate.
 
Quite a few special things in this thread:

- it's pretty cold to say that about a dead guy who isn't psycho

- I've always found there is a fine line when dealing with players. I think calling them out when they drop a pass or can't cover someone might be sort of okay in a forum like this. But I've always found it real distasteful the way a few people talk about our players. I'm not going into much more detail I think most people on here can tell the difference, whether they agree or not.

- As a professional with a Master's in History I've always found it pretty unpatriotic anyone that would allude to it being okay or good if any president died or was killed. I liken it to the burning of the flag. In theory the Constitution protects my right to burn the flag and protects my right to say something vile about what I wish for the President.

However, as an American there are certain things that I just know are wrong to do or say about our country. I knew people who said the same thing about G.W.B and even though I thought he was quite a puppet nothing turned my stomach more then to hear someone talk about the symbol of America in such a way. Unfortunately this will go over some peoples heads.

Qdawgg, this is an interesting, thoughtful post. I'm going to respond to a few points you make.

--RE: your assessment of calling out the players, I honestly don't disagree. I have never had--nor will I ever have--an issue with people critiquing players' performance. I do however have a problem with adults making personal attacks on the players due to temper tantrums during games. And the clown I was arguing with above is one of the worst in the history of this forum of going off on players in the game chat. There's a big difference between "what a dumb pass" or "this player should know better than to do X Y Z" or "that player is experienced enough to know better than to do that" and "YOU ING --I ING HATE YOU...WHY THE DID YOU TAKE THAT SHOT?"

And anyone who has participated in the game chats knows that the poster I was arguing with above consistently makes the latter kind of personal attacks on the players. This is not an embellishment on my part.

--I agree with your premise about the president as a symbol, and how insidious it is to wish harm on this symbol of our philosophical way of life. Building on your GWB example, I'm not an Obama supporter, but I found it reprehensible around the time of the election when people were openly speculating about whether he'd face an assassination attempt due to being the first minority president.

But for the record, I want to point out that Al Davis is not a president, nor is he an institution like the presidency. He's a sports owner--a sub-segment of an institution [i.e., the NFL]--one who has experienced every veritable highest of the highs and lowest of the lows during his tenure. He's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and in many ways has been his own worst enemy. So with all due respect to him being an alum, the tangible contributions he's made to the program [and I'll leave it to the OPA's of the board to quantify what that represents], etc. -- in my opinion, the good doesn't outweigh the negative.

I also want to point out that I didn't attend Syracuse University, so the carte blance argument that Davis's alumnus status trumps criticism doesn't work for me.

And the last thing I want to point out is that I didn't "cheer" for anything bad to happen to Davis. Prior to today, I don't think I've ever made a post about Davis in my 15+ years on the various boards.
 
I stand corrected, BayonneOrange--Davis, his organization, and visible segments of the fanbase have been the epitome of class for decades on end. How dare me for expressing an alternate viewpoint given that year of JV football he played back in the early 50s!

Davis being an alum does not whitewash the fact that he's been one of the most polarizing figures in professional sports, across any league, for nearly four decades. Pretending otherwise is absurd--alumnus or otherwise. Being an alum doesn't absolve him from criticism--not when he's been a screwball of the highest magnitude for easily more than twenty years.

For those in this thread who are uncomfortable with me expressing the above viewpoint because it's "too soon" -- fine. But I certainly do not apologize for having a negative opinion of Davis, in light of the aggregate.
While I believe everyone is entitled to their own positions and opinions the advice I would give anybody when talking about someone who has immediately passed away if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. Your entitled to have your negative opinion of Davis, but the comment you made was disrespectful because the thread title was RIP (Rest in Peace) Al Davis and not a general thread about Al Davis in that case your comment would be fair game.
 
I stand corrected, BayonneOrange--Davis, his organization, and visible segments of the fanbase have been the epitome of class for decades on end. How dare me for expressing an alternate viewpoint given that year of JV football he played back in the early 50s!

Davis being an alum does not whitewash the fact that he's been one of the most polarizing figures in professional sports, across any league, for nearly four decades. Pretending otherwise is absurd--alumnus or otherwise. Being an alum doesn't absolve him from criticism--not when he's been a screwball of the highest magnitude for easily more than twenty years.

For those in this thread who are uncomfortable with me expressing the above viewpoint because it's "too soon" -- fine. But I certainly do not apologize for having a negative opinion of Davis, in light of the aggregate.

I bet people don't care that you disliked or disdained Davis. A lot of people didn't like him. It's the words "good riddance" that they had problems with. That means you are glad he died.
 
But for the record, I want to point out that Al Davis is not a president. He's a sports owner--one who has experienced every veritable highest of the highs and lowest of the lows during his tenure. In many ways, he's been his own worst enemy. So with all due respect to him being an alum, the tangible contributions he's made to the program [and I'll leave it to the OPA's of the board to quantify what that represents], etc. -- in my opinion, the good doesn't outweigh the negative.

Please specify some of the negatives. I know he was a crummy owner at the end of his life, his treatment of LA and Oakland was bizarre, his relationship w/ Marcus Allen was not good, and the whole NFL lawsuit was petty...but maybe I'm too young, what did he do that was so bad?
 
While I believe everyone is entitled to their own positions and opinions the advice I would give anybody when talking about someone who has immediately passed away if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. Your entitled to have your negative opinion of Davis, but the comment you made was disrespectful because the thread title was RIP (Rest in Peace) Al Davis and not a general thread about Al Davis in that case your comment would be fair game.

That's a fair point, Alsacs.
 
Wow.

An SU alum who has given money to the University.

The guy who helped make the AFL a great league and in turn helped make the NFL the dynamo it is today.

A brilliant football man.

A guy who exercised his right as an American to operate his business under the law to maximize his profit.

A guy who showed tremendous loyalty to those who played for the Raiders.

He had his faults, no doubt, but he was a special man.
+1, excellent post.

44cuse

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
This coming from the clown who rips our players indiscriminately while having temper tantrums in the chat rooms. You are the epitome of a douche bag, Antz.

And alum or no, Davis is someone that I do not respect as a function of his personal conduct, and how he ran his organization. If you feel otherwise--great, but spare me the kumbaya circle.
To be fair, most Raider players love Al Davis and the way he treated players. Ask the to FA DB from this season.

44cuse

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
Please specify some of the negatives. I know he was a crummy owner at the end of his life, his treatment of LA and Oakland was bizarre, his relationship w/ Marcus Allen was not good, and the whole NFL lawsuit was petty...but maybe I'm too young, what did he do that was so bad?

I agree with this. What exactly did Davis do that people don't like? Is it that he made a lot of bad decisions for the latter part of his career? If that's the criteria for being a bad guy, where does that leaves NFL owners who don't have multiple SB titles. Does the whole Oakland/LA relocation thing really provoke that much of a reaction to this day? Is it that he ran Shanahan out of town and generally picked bad coaches? See the point about owners and 3 titles.

I also like colorful sports personalities and Davis qualifies. Do we want to live in a world where "Moneyball" strategies are used to operate every MLB team or the spread offense is used by every college and pro football team? Because it's heading in that direction and it's boring. Davis had his way of doing things. He may have been a little loco, but it's hard not to respect him.
 
For all the jokes made of the Raiders personnel choices/draft picks the last 5 or so years, they're not a bad football team. Not sure exactly what Davis' actual role in that department was, but it's worth noting.
 
I've probably mentioned this before, but my dad grew up with Raiders great Lyle Alzado. They were best friends, my Dad was his best man all of Lyle's weddings (there were 3 or 4 of them). As crazy as Lyle was, especially at the end after all of the steroid abuse, he always had the utmost respect and love for Davis, who was absolutely loyal to every one of his players. When Lyle was dying, Davis did a lot to help make sure his family would be secure.

Al Davis may have been a bit off at the end, but he's definitely not a person whose death we should be celebrating. He was a vital cog in creating the NFL that we know and love today.
 

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