Rumor mill

[FrancoPizza]

Satisfying the "average white guy" is not planning for the future.

#whitelivesmatter

 

[FrancoPizza]

Crucible Steel looks like a Nazi death camp.

I got a chuckle out of that one because it's so painfully accurate. But if they tried to demolish it, you'd get people complaining that the center of progress building at the fair wouldn't be the same without that view.

 

[FrancoPizza]

there was a site planned and it was large enough. That ship has sailed. The opportunity has vanished.

Demolish pioneer homes. Problem solved. Talk about a waste of real estate in the core of downtown.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I got a chuckle out of that one because it's so painfully accurate. But if they tried to demolish it, you'd get people complaining that the center of progress building at the fair wouldn't be the same without that view.

Except for the fact they are still in business...

 

[FrancoPizza]

Except for the fact they are still in business...

I know, I know. Maybe they can bring the blue curtain out of retirement.

 

[retro44]

The difficulty in recruiting white-collar workers is very real, but the common rationale is something that jibes with what 0307 has been saying, and what I think Matt is missing.

When friends and colleagues struggle to get talented attorneys, doctors, and architects, they tell me that they hear the same thing: Syracuse is a backward place with a lower quality of life than peer cities. Why come to Syracuse with its small walkable downtown and auto-oriented periphery and suburbs when Pittsburgh, Columbus, or (yikes) Richmond are choices (to say nothing of New York, Chicago, Boston, D.C., et al.)?

I like Syracuse quite a bit (as you all can surely tell) and will defend it, but it's taken baby steps while other mid-sized cities have made real strides in the things that matter to millennials. And we've got intelligent people with good values on here waving the flag for building a stadium in a totally car-dependent area and not understanding that many of us would like to walk from a baseball game to a bar?

You two are good posters, but I think you're two ships in the night on this matter. 0307's worth listening to on this one: Syracuse and Central New York are held back by locals' (and leaders') unwillingness to embrace change.

I can remember talking to a Tool owner at Intel in Boston who was from Rome N.Y. saying that Syracuse could be a great City in the high tech field due to the location of RTS. 81 and the Thruway. He said we had a great mall in the city with the Adirondacks,Finger Lakes /wineries,Thousand Islands and lake Ontario with Casinos right down the road. He said both the City and County were impossible deal with as they all had little petty fueds with one another. He said Syracuse has been mentioned a few times when the Builders of chip plants would look at areas that had excellent relaxation areas that would attract top talent in quality of life issues.

The cost of living he said was so much cheaper in Syracuse than Boston and that was a huge plus in develop plans. That one 250 acre site in clay would not pass seismic tests for a chip plant here as in Malta they too had ground issues,but they worked around around those to seal the deal and get it done.

 

[OttoMets]

I can remember talking to a Tool owner at Intel in Boston who was from Rome N.Y. saying that Syracuse could be a great City in the high tech field due to the location of RTS. 81 and the Thruway. He said we had a great mall in the city with the Adirondacks,Finger Lakes /wineries,Thousand Islands and lake Ontario with Casinos right down the road. He said both the City and County were impossible deal with as they all had little petty fueds with one another. He said Syracuse has been mentioned a few times when the Builders of chip plants would look at areas that had excellent relaxation areas that would attract top talent in quality of life issues.

The cost of living he said was so much cheaper than in Syracuse than Boston and that was a huge plus in develop plans. That one 250 acre site in clay would not pass seismic tests for a chip plant here as in Malta they too had ground issues,but they worked around around those to seal the deal and get it done.

That's a good point. And I guess we can throw the state into the mix with all that bickering, too.

Great fundamentals in this area, though, no doubt about it. We need to get out of our own way and let good things happen.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I get it man you hate downtown. You're spitting the same story out from the 1990's. I work downtown and my company employs 800 people in the city, and I'm not in healthcare, education, or government. The people moving is false. There have never been MORE people living in Onondaga County than at this time. Your right on the poverty front in those specific areas, but you're leaving out the areas Syracuse is doing well in. Maybe you should have a conversation with Bob Doucette and ask him how he's surviving downtown, and while were at it they could of built a stadium where they put the stupid waste water treatment plant near the trolley lot.

I love downtown. I work downtown. I patronize local businesses. It's because of my proximity that I am aware of the limitations and realities of the ability to place a stadium downtown. I know Bob Doucette. Ask him where that butcher shop / grocery is that he planned to put in the Dey Brothers building five years ago. I represented the guy he was going to lease the space to, and he has been unable to find a replacement tenant. Lieh and Stiegerwalds opened a butcher shop/ deli in a building a block away. I also represent people who were going to lease space in the Inner Harbor from Len Montreal, but the deal fell through. I am aware of what's going on in town, trust me.

 

[IthacaMatt]

there was a site planned and it was large enough. That ship has sailed. The opportunity has vanished.

Why? If we want a football stadium, couldn't we place it there, too? Same logic applies.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You're right I am young(30), but I don't like 50 year olds making decisions that only benefit said 50 year olds, like it we always do in this country. I also know that when the Chiefs were the yankees affiliate the North Side was actually a good place to live, now it is not. You all are leaving a big part of this out when you say you don't care about the students. They are your future donors.

Donors to the university is not the same thing as people living here and being part of the community. You can say "you're too old to know what young people want." Well, where are all the young people who are living thriving professional lives in this community? Where are all the people starting new businesses? I am one of the best-known of lawyers in town who help people buy, sell and start new businesses, and I have worked closely with people in the economic development community for the last decade. I know how things get done. I have a better finger on the pulse of the community than you do, I'll bet. People who have been at their jobs a while may have seen more things than you have, have more experience, have seen projects fail and understand the pitfalls to avoid, when young people like you do when you are just starting out in your career. No offense, but experience is the best teacher.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The difficulty in recruiting white-collar workers is very real, but the common rationale is something that jibes with what 0307 has been saying, and what I think Matt is missing.

When friends and colleagues struggle to get talented attorneys, doctors, and architects, they tell me that they hear the same thing: Syracuse is a backward place with a lower quality of life than peer cities. Why come to Syracuse with its small walkable downtown and auto-oriented periphery and suburbs when Pittsburgh, Columbus, or (yikes) Richmond are choices (to say nothing of New York, Chicago, Boston, D.C., et al.)?

I like Syracuse quite a bit (as you all can surely tell) and will defend it, but it's taken baby steps while other mid-sized cities have made real strides in the things that matter to millennials. And we've got intelligent people with good values on here waving the flag for building a stadium in a totally car-dependent area and not understanding that many of us would like to walk from a baseball game to a bar?

You two are good posters, but I think you're two ships in the night on this matter. 0307's worth listening to on this one: Syracuse and Central New York are held back by locals' (and leaders') unwillingness to embrace change.

I appreciate the sentiment, but not enough people live downtown yet to support a freaking grocery store, or most retail chains. How are you going to base your attendance at sporting events on the crowd who can walk to the game? More people live within walking distance of the current University/Dome location than live within walking distance of a downtown stadium.

 

[xc84]

Why? If we want a football stadium, couldn't we place it there, too? Same logic applies.

Nah. First, the space is now occupied by a storm overflow system that didn't exist when the baseball stadium could have went there. A football stadium would require a larger footprint that probably extends beyond the capability of that minor league baseball site. Football games are on on weekends..does capture the "after work" crowd like baseball. Fan base is much bigger for football requiring way more parking than could be accommodated downtown. There is no one who wants to build a baseball stadium now. The decision has passed. That's why the ship has sailed.

 

[OttoMets]

I appreciate the sentiment, but not enough people live downtown yet to support a freaking grocery store, or most retail chains. How are you going to base your attendance at sporting events on the crowd who can walk to the game? More people live within walking distance of the current University/Dome location than live within walking distance of a downtown stadium.

That's true (and the harbor site is less walkable than both), but that's missing my point, which is that we need to build for the community that appeals to those who want to walk (among other things).

 

[LAOrange]

The difficulty in recruiting white-collar workers is very real, but the common rationale is something that jibes with what 0307 has been saying, and what I think Matt is missing.

When friends and colleagues struggle to get talented attorneys, doctors, and architects, they tell me that they hear the same thing: Syracuse is a backward place with a lower quality of life than peer cities. Why come to Syracuse with its small walkable downtown and auto-oriented periphery and suburbs when Pittsburgh, Columbus, or (yikes) Richmond are choices (to say nothing of New York, Chicago, Boston, D.C., et al.)?

I like Syracuse quite a bit (as you all can surely tell) and will defend it, but it's taken baby steps while other mid-sized cities have made real strides in the things that matter to millennials. And we've got intelligent people with good values on here waving the flag for building a stadium in a totally car-dependent area and not understanding that many of us would like to walk from a baseball game to a bar?

You two are good posters, but I think you're two ships in the night on this matter. 0307's worth listening to on this one: Syracuse and Central New York are held back by locals' (and leaders') unwillingness to embrace change.

I've been an Executive Recruiter for twenty years and I have less problem selling Syracuse than NYC or LA. The positive points are cost-of-living and quality of family life for three seasons. The detractors are taxes, business climate and snow. The thing is: eighty percent of the US experiences snow. It's just that people in Syracuse know how to live in snow... and that's the way to counter that objection.

 

[CuseTroop]

They are the end zone seats for football and the for basketball they wheel then across the field to the other end as the bleachers on that side of the court.

ahh gotcha, now I'm tracking.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Donors to the university is not the same thing as people living here and being part of the community. You can say "you're too old to know what young people want." Well, where are all the young people who are living thriving professional lives in this community? Where are all the people starting new businesses? I am one of the best-known of lawyers in town who help people buy, sell and start new businesses, and I have worked closely with people in the economic development community for the last decade. I know how things get done. I have a better finger on the pulse of the community than you do, I'll bet. People who have been at their jobs a while may have seen more things than you have, have more experience, have seen projects fail and understand the pitfalls to avoid, when young people like you do when you are just starting out in your career. No offense, but experience is the best teacher.

I never said you're too old, but I do think you are pushing 1990's thinking. I'm sure you're a great attorney, just like I think I'm a great financial analyst, but I don't fully agree with your thinking.

Nationally the approach has been to clean up cities and invest in city centers. Albany and Buffalo have already started doing it. Syracuse has started doing it to a lesser degree, but we need more. You say Syracuse is falling apart, but you fail to acknowledge the heavy investment in Salina and the area around the Dey's building/Warren street. More investment will come when there is a final decision made on 81.

Syracuse should be doing things to attract businesses here, like the company I work for (but won't disclose on here). I don't think leaders in town have done a good enough job selling what the city has to offer. (affordable rent, colleges nearby to hire, more affordable salary for companys... etc)

My company has been successful in Syracuse by selling cheaper wages and rent to the executive committee. (We pay about 20% less here than NYC). Our headquarters is in New York, so it's easy for management to visit if they want. I'd say 75 percent of our employees are younger than 40 and all college educated, so you can't tell me it's impossible to find an educated work force here.

I think Syracuse can attract other companies like my own by selling themselves the business advantages we do have. All you keep telling me in your posts is what Syracuse can't offer. If you're not turning some of what you think is negative into positive we are never going to be successful.

A lot of corporations are trying to get unnecessary operations out of expensive locations like New York City. Why Syracuse hasn't been able to completely capitalize is beyond me. I think a lot of people are stuck in a cynical view of thinking we can't do certain things here. It's really a shame that the microchip plant is being build in Malta and not Syracuse because city leaders can't agree on anything. Instead we have an albatross of a mall that does nothing more than add low-wage part time jobs.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I've been an Executive Recruiter for twenty years and I have less problem selling Syracuse than NYC or LA. The positive points are cost-of-living and quality of family life for three seasons. The detractors are taxes, business climate and snow. The thing is: eighty percent of the US experiences snow. It's just that people in Syracuse know how to live in snow... and that's the way to counter that objection.

Great Post.

 

[xc84]

I never said you're too old, but I do think you are pushing 1990's thinking. I'm sure you're a great attorney, just like I think I'm a great financial analyst, but I don't fully agree with your thinking.

Nationally the approach has been to clean up cities and invest in city centers. Albany and Buffalo have already started doing it. Syracuse has started doing it to a lesser degree, but we need more. You say Syracuse is falling apart, but you fail to acknowledge the heavy investment in Salina and the area around the Dey's building/Warren street. More investment will come when there is a final decision made on 81.

Syracuse should be doing things to attract businesses here, like the company I work for (but won't disclose on here). I don't think leaders in town have done a good enough job selling what the city has to offer. (affordable rent, colleges nearby to hire, more affordable salary for companys... etc)

My company has been successful in Syracuse by selling cheaper wages and rent to the executive committee. (We pay about 20% less here than NYC). Our headquarters is in New York, so it's easy for management to visit if they want. I'd say 75 percent of our employees are younger than 40 and all college educated, so you can't tell me it's impossible to find an educated work force here.

I think Syracuse can attract other companies like my own by selling themselves the business advantages we do have. All you keep telling me in your posts is what Syracuse can't offer. If you're not turning some of what you think is negative into positive we are never going to be successful.

A lot of corporations are trying to get unnecessary operations out of expensive locations like New York City. Why Syracuse hasn't been able to completely capitalize is beyond me. I think a lot of people are stuck in a cynical view of thinking we can't do certain things here. It's really a shame that the microchip plant is being build in Malta and not Syracuse because city leaders can't agree on anything. Instead we have an albatross of a mall that does nothing more than add low-wage part time jobs.

A few comments about specifics.

Syracuse started to improve downtown before Rochester and Buffalo... I lived in Buffalo well after Armory Square was started and there was nothing like it there at the time.

Malta got the chip plant because Malta is near Albany and Albany is near politicians and a large state school.

Just curious, which choice on 81 will help you choose to invest more on Salina?

 

[orangefog]

I love downtown. I work downtown. I patronize local businesses. It's because of my proximity that I am aware of the limitations and realities of the ability to place a stadium downtown. I know Bob Doucette. Ask him where that butcher shop / grocery is that he planned to put in the Dey Brothers building five years ago. I represented the guy he was going to lease the space to, and he has been unable to find a replacement tenant. Lieh and Stiegerwalds opened a butcher shop/ deli in a building a block away. I also represent people who were going to lease space in the Inner Harbor from Len Montreal, but the deal fell through. I am aware of what's going on in town, trust me.

So Len Montreal is a person? Canadian gambler?

 

[Cusefan0307]

A few comments about specifics.

Syracuse started to improve downtown before Rochester and Buffalo... I lived in Buffalo well after Armory Square was started and there was nothing like it there at the time.

Malta got the chip plant because Malta is near Albany and Albany is near politicians and a large state school.

Just curious, which choice on 81 will help you choose to invest more on Salina?

Too far to go back, but someone above had stated that they were looking at Syracuse (clay) before Malta for the chip plant.I'm not sure on 81 yet, as I haven't seen enough data to see how each option will affect the area.

I do know Albany, much like Syracuse with 81 is now discussing what to do about the future of 787 as it takes up valuable land next to the Hudson River waterfront (See Below). And I apologize to IthacaMatt for possibly being to aggressive above, but we really need to do away with the cynical view that nothing can ever be good in Syracuse.

http://stakeholders.force.com/servlet/servlet.FileDownload?file=015U0000000q1ZW

 

[xc84]

Too far to go back, but someone above had stated that they were looking at Syracuse (clay) before Malta for the chip plant.I'm not sure on 81 yet, as I haven't seen enough data to see how each option will affect the area.

I do know Albany, much like Syracuse with 81 is now discussing what to do about the future of 787 as it takes up valuable land next to the Hudson River waterfront (See Below). And I apologize to IthacaMatt for possibly being to aggressive above, but we really need to do away with the cynical view that nothing can ever be good in Syracuse.

http://stakeholders.force.com/servlet/servlet.FileDownload?file=015U0000000q1ZW

I am on your side. I love Syracuse.

Yup, 787 begs the question "What were they thinking?"

 

[orangenauburn]

My only issue with the fairgrounds is that the area around the Fair is just awful. Apologies to anyone living in or near Solvay..but that area seems to have given up on trying to make their town look nice. Its depressing as hell. I would rather not put a stadium next to Crucible steel...imagine the pictures the broadcasts would show of the smokestacks? Gross.

I've been an Executive Recruiter for twenty years and I have less problem selling Syracuse than NYC or LA. The positive points are cost-of-living and quality of family life for three seasons. The detractors are taxes, business climate and snow. The thing is: eighty percent of the US experiences snow. It's just that people in Syracuse know how to live in snow... and that's the way to counter that objection.

looking to fill any logistical, operational, or supply chain positions?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I love downtown. I work downtown. I patronize local businesses. It's because of my proximity that I am aware of the limitations and realities of the ability to place a stadium downtown. I know Bob Doucette. Ask him where that butcher shop / grocery is that he planned to put in the Dey Brothers building five years ago. I represented the guy he was going to lease the space to, and he has been unable to find a replacement tenant. Lieh and Stiegerwalds opened a butcher shop/ deli in a building a block away. I also represent people who were going to lease space in the Inner Harbor from Len Montreal, but the deal fell through. I am aware of what's going on in town, trust me.

Good Post. You're focusing more on small businesses, which I agree it is more difficult to attract people to downtown or wherever really without a stable population. Where I disagree, is I think the city can be successful attracting companies looking to get out of high salary/rent locations such as NYC, and still need to stay in the state of New York due to contractual obligations. That is why my company moved most of it's operational and analytical staff out of NYC.

 

[Macky44]

looking to fill any logistical, operational, or supply chain positions?

Seriously... im ready to be recruited as well. Anyone need middle management people? lol

 

[KellySyracuse]

I actually live on the North Side, have been here since 2003. You can't blanket the whole neighborhood as bad by only reading what Syracuse.com puts on their site. I don't disagree that parts of the North Side are bad but there are parts that are pretty damn nice. Last I checked there were crappy parts in just about every neighborhood, oh my gosh even in the suburbs.